Steve, I totally get the numbers in a census will show more JWs than the cult's official numbers do. My point was that the survey seems to imply that there are more active members than the cult's numbers do, and by a wide margin. Either their's some inaccuracy in the sampling or people were lying when they said they regularly attend meetings. I don't see another option.
OneEyedJoe
JoinedPosts by OneEyedJoe
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NEW PEW Research data on Jehovah's Witnesses just released
by Balaamsass2 ini was expecting people who "identified" as jws to follow watchtower beliefs more closely than these pollsters report.. .
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s/.
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NEW PEW Research data on Jehovah's Witnesses just released
by Balaamsass2 ini was expecting people who "identified" as jws to follow watchtower beliefs more closely than these pollsters report.. .
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s/.
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OneEyedJoe
These numbers don't add up...maybe someone can help me with this -
it says 0.8% of the US population is JW. That puts JWs at roughly 2.5 million members. Even if you assume that children are represented in disproportionately low numbers compared to the overall population (I'm assuming the survey was done of adults 18 and over, but I see no indication of this for sure) you still have 1.6 million adult JWs. If weekly meeting attendance is at 85%, you'd have to have 2.1 million JWs attending meetings weekly and 1.4 million adult JWs attending meetings weekly. Those numbers seem way too high considering the cult's official numbers are at 1.18 million publishers and I can't remember the last time I heard of a congregation having anything close to 100% attendance, let alone average attendance of 115-178% which is what would be necessary for these numbers to make sense.
My guess is that this survey isn't very accurate due to the small sample size. Either that or they got a good number of inactive JWs who were lying due to guilt over their poor meeting attendance.
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Adam buried at the foot of Christ's cross. Are you kidding me.
by James Mixon ini heard this on "the story of god".
his blood trickle down through the rocks into adam giving.
him life.
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OneEyedJoe
Theists say the darnedest things. -
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a unique situation
by stuckinthemiddle ini think i have a unique involvement with jws.
i'm not a baptized member.
my mother has been devout for over 20 years.
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OneEyedJoe
It sounds like you're not in much risk of being taken in by this cult, but I would still recommend that you (and your partner) take a look at jwfacts.com to see what JWs won't tell you about the organization, and much of what JWs themselves aren't told about the organization. Things like the religion's history that are hidden from you as you are pushed towards conversion. It's not a healthy religion by a long shot. Please be careful. -
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San Diego abuse case: stay tuned. Zalkin's motion to be considered this Friday.
by Sugar Shane inzalkin proposing huge sanctions if jw leadership fails to produce documents.
unredacted this time!
feds need to get involved with this.
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OneEyedJoe
DD - you make a good point. There's a big cost for them that's hard to quantify - the damage done to their membership/donations if they do publish their enormous list of pedophiles. Up until now, I was thinking that their choice was between 1) causing a few enormous summary judgments (which will continue once lawyers realize all they have to do is subpoena their records and win) and 2) the possibility that publishing the documents increases the volume of abuse lawsuits when people see the size of the problem and are able to clearly see that the WT knew about their abuser before their abuse.
The drying up of funds should this story become widespread is almost certainly bigger than the other costs that they're accounting for. Especially since they are probably somewhat insured against the court costs but cannot be insured against evaporating membership/donations.
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Novelist With Questions
by Researcher With Questions ini am a writer, who is at present working on a novel, and i am developing a character/characters who has/have been jehovahs witness(es), and i have some questions that i am hoping someone may be willing to answer.
first, my general credentials.
i am a working writer, with a number of professional poetry publications in journals and lit.
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OneEyedJoe
1. This is pretty common. Those that fall into this category will typically attend the memorial which is sorta the JW version of passover/easter/communion that happens annually and usually coincides with the full moon prior to easter. Magnum summed this up pretty well.
2. This could depend on a number of things. For one, if the husband is seeking reinstatement and the wife is not, that could potentially hold him back somewhat because of the misogynist views of the cult - he should have his wife "in subjection" to him. I can't speak for the experience of women in the cult, but that may have it's own unique challenges too if she were trying to return without her husband. Since being DFed for giving your kid blood isn't something that's likely to be an ongoing problem (i.e. if you were DFed for wife-swapping, one spouse's failure to return might cast suspicion that the DFing offense is continuing) so it probably wouldn't be insurmountable if only one person decided to return. This can also depend on the 3 elders that are handling the case - there are a wide range of personalities and some are more harsh than others.
If one were reinstated without the other, I suspect it would put a fair amount of strain on the relationship, even if both still somewhat believe the doctrine. The one that returns would likely place their "spirituality" (i.e. involvement in cult activities) ahead of the needs of the family. Furthermore, they would likely try to drag the kids to cult meetings and in service (door to door recruiting) which would probably be a source of frustration as the kids will begin to be indoctrinated to have a poor view of the non-attending spouse. The children would likely begin telling the non-attending spouse that they're going to die at armageddon or perhaps using their non-attendance as a reason that they have no authority over them. The kids would probably be the largest source of conflict in most cases. Though the spouse that returns to the cult would likely (whether consciously or subconsciously) blame any issues in their relationship or in their lives in general on their spouse's non-attendance, and if the wife is the one that returns (which is more common) she would likely resent her husband for not being the "spiritual head" that she needs and would blame him for any difficulty she has in maintaining her cult activity. A woman in the cult also has very limited options for obtaining any social status among the members without a husband that's also in. Women can really only pioneer, which I suspect would be unlikely in the case of one spouse going back and the other not, so without the status of being an elder's wife, she would be at the bottom of the totem poll.
3. In general 6 months would be really quick, 1-2 years is more typical. Not sure of the specifics around blood - it might depend on the elders handling the case. If they have young children they may be more compassionate and be more inclined to reinstate, but the blood doctrine is one that his held in very high regard so a violation there might draw out some vindictiveness. You could go either way with it and have it be believable. If the kid given the transfusion still died, I think that actually might make their reinstatement go a little more quickly since the couple may well believe their child's death to be a punishment by god and this would result in what is probably going to be a more genuine display of grief and remorse, which is one of the things the elders will look for.
4. The plot was kinda lightly described but I don't see any significant holes.
5. In the time period that you're depicting, I think it's very likely that they'd leave and still hold the beliefs. Without the internet it was very difficult to come by the information needed to destroy the doctrine, and took a great deal of time and mental investment to do so. So most that walked away probably were left with some degree of belief remaining, they were just making the choice to be happy now and not wait for paradise. Or, as magnum said, they just couldn't quit smoking or gambling or whatever else.
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Generation expiry date?
by pleaseresearch inhow long will it take for a jw to see that even the overlapping generation is wrong?.
the org waited and waited to see if their interpretation of it came true.
those alive in 1914 would still be alive obviously it didn't and jws have to believe in an overlapping generation.
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OneEyedJoe
The absolute furthest that anyone can sell it as reaching is probably in the 2070s (fred franz died in '92, so someone that was 20 and newly anointed at that time could live to be 100 putting you in 2072) but I suspect it's going to be discarded in favor of new doctrine well before that. The current GB won't last that long, so when some new folks come in they'll implement their own ideas and will probably scrap the overlapping generation, and I'm guessing 1914 with it.
If I were still in the cult, I'd probably be thinking that if armageddon doesn't come by 2034 it would prove them to be wrong yet again.
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Proclaimers Book claims anyone can leave the org
by Sanchy inwas going through proclaimers book and found this little nugget on page 232. there is so much wrong with this paragraph that my head almost exploded when i read it.. however, i was thinking, perhaps those like me that are trying to fade away without "trouble", can use this in the case that an elder should start questioning with intent of escalating matters.
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OneEyedJoe
Wow, they're really doing some mental contortions to justify that statement. If you include the sentence right after the highlighted portion, it could be summarized: "If someone doesn't like living by bible rules, they're free to leave as long as they live by the bible's rules."
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Can you sneeze while sleeping?
by James Mixon inlets start your day off with a great start.
don't look it up and give me your answer.. i,m not the only one that comes up with this crazy question.
lol.
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OneEyedJoe
To my knowledge I've never slept through a sneeze, but I've definitely woken up mid sneeze when I've had a cold. -
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Model Jw family?
by MrTheocratic ini would like to get the opinion of those on this community.
does serving as an elder make one a bad family man.
with all the demands placed on those serving... how can one make time for family life?
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OneEyedJoe
Serving as an elder definitely made my father a much worse father. It got so bad that he actually stepped down for a few years because he didn't want to miss his kid's childhood.