Posts by aniron

13

BLOOD Transfusion CHANGES

by UnDisfellowshipped in

jw
friends

the golden age november 13th 1929 issue, pages 106, 107:.

the golden age march 27th 1935 issue, page 409:.

the golden age september 23rd 1936 issue, page 816:.

aniron

poorside

Can you tell were in the Bible it is wrong to take a BLOOD TRANSFUSION.

Where in the Bible does it say it is a sin to take a Blood transfusion, to eat blood yes, it never mentions transfusion.

Jesus gave his life for all mankind. Jesus voluntary gave his life.

Did the children who died from not having a blood transfusion do so voluntarally? What say does a six-month old baby have in the decision. This is the equivilant of child-sacrifice.

Why do Jews, even ultra-orthodox, not eat blood, but will accept blood transfusions?

Blood transfusions are not the result of killing, blood comes from someone living and continues to live. Rather than representing death, it is the opposite, the preserving of life. There is no connection or parallel between Gen 9, Lev 3,Acts 15 regarding the slaying and eating of blood and the use of blood in a transfusion, no parallel at all.

Another point in regard to this same subject is that JW's say God prohibits eating blood because it symbolizes life, which is of high value in the sight of God and that he wishes to impress on man the value of life through prohibition of of eating blood.

However I fail to see how the SYMBOL could be of greater value than the reality it symbolizes. In some cases blood is the only means of sustaining life. It seems to me that in that type of situation to let a person die, in order to keep the symbol of life, is a contradiction in itself and placing of more importance upon the symbol than the reality it symbolizes.

A true Christian should be prepared to give his life for his faith in God, if called on to do so. But to give one's life when God does not really require or desire it, would not seem to be of any value. To place more importance on the symbol, is like placing more importance on a wedding ring (symbol of marriage) than on the marriage. It would be like a man faced with sacrificing his wife or the wedding ring, he would chose the ring.

Since Christians are not under the Mosaic Law Code, but under the "royal law of love" and "law of faith". Does it show appreciation for the preciousness of life to allow arbitary polices to dictate in crucial situations. Does it manifest eithe Love of God or Love of neighbour to do thsi with no clear statements in the Bible for support.

Acts 15 says "abstain from blood" it relates to eating blood. Is transfusing blood "eating" as the WT claim. There is no sound basis for that claim. Blood transfusion is not "intravenous feeding", as the WT claim, it is the transplantion of a fluid tissue, NOT an infusion of a nutrient. A kidney transplant is not eaten a food, it remains a kidney, in form and function. Same with blood, body cannot use transfused blood as food, it must be eaten and digested first.

A patient is given blood not because they are "malnourished" not because they lack nutrition, but because of lack of red cells to carry oxygen to the body.

It is unfair and unloving to imagine the motivation of those seeking to preserve life, because they do not hold to certain regulations and prohibitions originating from a religious organisation, saying it is a denial of faith, when there is simply no valid basis, scriptural or otherwise. It is an attempt to burden persons with a sense of guilt, imposed by human standards, not Divine standards.

17

Ever give a ridiculous 'talk'?

by Steve Lowry in

jw
friends

one day at the hall when i was about fifteen i guess, i looked at the talk schedule to see my name posted next to my next talk.

i hated giving a talk.

it made sick to my stomach before i would go 'on'.

aniron

As said above I was surprised that such young person were assigned such talks.

Our School overseer said that instructions from Bethel were that no "young person" it was taken that meant anyone under 21, was to be assigned a talk on "sensitive" issues, i.e. sex.

Of course the standing joke about the talk on "Masturbation" was that you weren't counselled on "gestures"

We once had a 23 yr old brother give a talk on "homosexuality" think it was based on a magazine article. Couple months later it was discovered he was homosexual himself and had been since he was 14.

91

Coke or Pepsi ???

by dh in

jw
friends

personally i prefer pepsi, but i like coke after greasy food.

aniron

Seeing this question I suddenly realised.

That I haven't seen Pepsi in the shops very much around here. So I went to have a look and I would say that 8 out of 10 only have Coke. Those that did have Pepsi only had a small display. I asked one shopkeeper, who only had Coke, why no Pepsi. He said he used to have it, but it took so long to sell what he had compared to Coke he stopped stocking it.

197

Why does God allow people to develop 'forbidden' special powers?

by SM62 in

something i have been wondering about lately.. whether you believe in god or not, are a christian or some other religion or no religion at all, i'd be interested in your opinion.. according to those who believe in the bible including most christians, god condemns the use of 'special' powers/abilities.

for example, esp, tarot, astrology, consulting a medium, spells etc.

however, if god created us, did he not give us the ability to develop and use such powers?

aniron

Maybe God forbade such people with "special powers" because he knew that they would start to have influence over peoples lives. Look at the number of people today whose lives are based on what their astrologer says. Or what they have been told by some medium or ther means. Or what the Tarot cards tell them.

12

How do JW"S treat each other in the cong in your area?

by fearnotruth22 in

jw
friends

"by this they will know that you are my disciples, if you have love amongst yourselves" is this true in your cong?

how do the bothers deal with each other in your area?

do they really love each other?

aniron

I remember a few years ago, we were told a JW congregation about 5-6 miles from us, would be coming to our KH for a while, as their KH was being redecorated. At the time I thought it was a bit odd, I mean JW's can build KH's in 3-5 days from scratch. Why couldn't they decorate in a week.

Anyway when those from that congregation started to come to ours, they were made welcome. But I wouldn't say they were greeted with "open arms." There was a degree of "don't come to close" by some of my congregation brothers/sisters.

It wasn't until years later and the son of then PO told my son what had happened. It seems the Elders of that congregation were meeting each week, but it seems the meetings turned into drinking sessions. Then one night it got out of hand, they started fighting, it spilled out of the KH into street. The police were called 6 Elders were charged with being drunk and disorderly. Somehow word reached London Bethel, they sent to "strong arm" troubleshooters up. All the Elders were removed and the KH was closed, locks changed etc. That?s why they had to come to our KH until the CO and the DO had chosen others to be elders. The two elders who were not at that drunken night, were kept on, but they had to find another four replacements.

That?s why that congregation had to come to our KH for about 3 weeks. Also why some were a bit wary of them, those that knew the real reason.

33

Have any of you experienced this ?

by codeblue in

.

as a married jw, did your spouse ever cheat on you with another jw?

codeblue

aniron

Not experienced it personally.

But know other JW's it has happened to.

Remember some years ago the married son of an Elder committed adultery with a married sister. They were disfellowshipped, got divorced, married each other, got reinstated in a year. Later they said they had planned to do it like that so that they could get divorced and married. Heard others had done the same.

Recently heard of JW brother had been disfellowshipped for the third time, for immorality. When I was in congregation he was an MS, and pioneer. He was about 25-30 at the time, had the usual pioneer window cleaning round one of those brothers who thought he was Gods gift to the congregation. Well it seems that on his window cleaning round he was doing more than cleaning one womans windows . He was found out, disfellowshipped, seems it had been going on for a long while. His wife divorced him. He kept coming to meetings and going for reinstatement so he could see his child. Did same thing a couple of years later, and now again recently. Speaking to his brother, who is not a JW, a couple of months ago, he said his brother used to go on about the women customers who he had bedded. Yet at the same time being so "spiritual" in field service and he was a MS giving talks etc. Hypocrite.

40

What is the mood in the Kingdom Halls nowadays?

by JH in

jw
friends

when i used to go the meetings in the late 80's, the mood was good, knowing that the end was close.

later on in the 90's while i still attended once in a while, people were starting to be less zealous and were starting to put their needs before those of the kingdoms.

people started to buy houses, instead of living in apartements, they were buying nicer cars, taking vacations far away, and mostly, the women started to work, to help pay for the better life style they were living.

aniron

I asked my son who still goes to the KH, what the attendance was now in my old congregation. He said they average 85-90 for the Sunday Public Talk and WT study and about same, or a bit less, for TM school and Service Meeting. I was surprised.

I left in 1999 and the average for years was 120-130 for Sunday, and about 100-110 for TMS and SM. I've given Public Talks to up to 150 at times. We moved into a new 250 seat KH in 1985 because we were growing at the time.

What also surprised me was my son said they had 86 publishers. They had that many when I became a JW in the 70?s. Even allowing for people leaving and those that have died. It seems to be fairly static, I think we hit 92 in early 90's.

In the many years I was there I can only remember 2 being DF'd and 1 DA'd. In the last 2 years they have 6 DF'd and 4 DA'd. No wonder they not growing. One of those DF'd was his third time, for immorality.

An Elder who was a good ?friend? when I was there and was Congregation secretary, his two daughters, one who was baptized, have left home and gone to live with their boyfriends, one of which, I believe was also a JW.

Also a Min.Servant one daughter (16) has gone to live with her boyfriend at his parents home. The other daughter (14) asked the Social Services to take her into care. I know a person, a B/A Christian, who works with the father, they were saying he has been off work with stress for a long while. But before he went off, he was saying how he was saying he was getting no support from the Elders and was beginning to question the WT and its teachings. His wife had already stopped attending meetings because of the lack of support and love from the congregation.

This is happening in a congregation that was considered in the circuit as one of the best.

My son and daughter, who left when I did, often say, the congregation seem to fall apart after we left.

But we have heard from others that many congregations in the area are all going through similar upheavals. Many young ones are saying that as soon as they can they will be leaving home, so that they can stop going to meetings etc, they only go because they live with their parents.

There certainly seems to be something happening. But as usual the WT will close up on itself and blame everyone else for all its problems.

60

Your Ideas On The Bible?

by shamus in

so, what do you think about the bible?

is it really ispired of god?.

i am strongly believing that the bible is nothing more than folk-tales, half-truths, and suggestions by man.

aniron

As I said before. I reject the Christian faith on it's own merits, not on the Watchtower organisation.

Which merits are they? That Christian teaching is that you should treat all others as equal. That you should love your neighbour. That you should help the less fortunate. That you live in peace with each other.

To often I hear people condemn the Christian faith, when they really mean "Christian religion". To often I hear people say something about the Christian faith, but it turns out they are talking about a Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Pentecostal, JW's or whatever teaching. Some Pope, Bishop, Pastor, Vicar, Elder stands up and says something and it becomes a "Christian teaching" without anyone actually saying "Does this match up with what Christ did say or do"

All our thinking on the Christian faith is coloured by some organisation/church whether we like it or not. It is coloured by someones writings that we like. It is coloured by what we have heard preached. Its coloured by how we brought up. I have not met anyone who calls themselves a "Christian" based on their own reading of scripture, free from outside influence. Even now I cannot read scripture without some WT teaching coming into my mind. I have met Catholics who have become Pentecostals, yet still pray to Mary, because they still believe its a "Christian" teaching.

Yes the Christian faith does condemn certain practices, like adultery, fornication, homosexuality, theft, drunkenness. So what!

If you want to practice these things then DON'T BECOME A CHRISTIAN. It's that simple.

If you play a sport and that sport has rules pf play and you keep breaking them, don't expect to be picked for the team.

Speaking to a Pakistani Moslem, work colleague I asked about the Islamic view on homosexuals. According to him any Moslem who was homosexual would not be allowed to associate with other Moslems or attend the mosque. He would be thrown out of the family home. In parts of the Moslem world he could even be put to death, by stoning.

Yet I do not see any great protest against Moslems in Britain or the USA against moslems on this teaching. But if a Christian group does the same thing, all hell breaks lose. They get accused of being intolerant etc.

I sometimes find that those who reject the Christian faith, a bit hypocritical. It seems to have become the fashion to condemn Christianity, because its an easy target, Christians don't fight back. Go to a Moslem country and start condemning Islam and see how far you get.

60

Your Ideas On The Bible?

by shamus in

so, what do you think about the bible?

is it really ispired of god?.

i am strongly believing that the bible is nothing more than folk-tales, half-truths, and suggestions by man.

aniron

I find it strange that so many are willing to reject the Bible because they think it is just a book of myths and legends etc.

Many other religions in this world are based on myths and legends. Have a look at Hinduism and Buddhism, do they not have stories which are obviously myths and legendsl. Strangely some who leave the JW's will run to them quite freely, while denouncing the Bible.

Adherents of other religions are especially hard pressed to understand the emphasis Christians place on that the events and people actually took place or existed. Almost all other religions are based upon a theological dictum or ideology, not upon historical fact of its founders identity or an event in time and space. The Christian faith's dependence upon history is almost incredulous to many others.

Having worked with a devout and educated Hindu, he was bewildered by a Christian's claim that his Christian faith depended upon ,the substantial historical truth of the record concerning Jesus in the Bible. He , not understanding Christianity, thought it seemed axiomatic that such vital matters of religious truth could not be allowed to depend upon the accidents of history. If the truths which the Bible exemplified and taught are true., then they are true always and everywhere, whether a person called Jesus ever lived or not. So in his eyes whether the Bible was a book of myths and legends doesn't matter, if it stated a religious truth, it was true. Then why did Christians feel the need to prove that events and people in the Bible happened or existed. So what, if the Bible is myths and legends, does it matter.

I've come across so many who have left cults like the JW's, who have because of their experienced with the Watchtower, reject the Bible, as untrue, myths and legends. Then in the next breath are telling me they have become Pagans, Wiccans, Buddhists, Hindu's.

Many men hghly intelligent men, have set out to disprove the Bible, then have ended up as Christians.

But I see many, including myself, who because of their experience with a man-made organisation called the Watchtower, and whose teachings we freely accepted at the time. Then discover we were lied to and all the rest. Who do we blame, ourselves for being taken, then the Watchtower organisation for lying, then the scapegoat becomes the Bible. Its false, contradicts itself, myths etc. Well why didn't you see it before, this book has been around for nigh on 2000 yrs and now you've suddenly decided its now a book of myths and legends!! Many of us had as JW's been reading and using it for 10, 20, 30, 40 years now suddenly overnight it becomes this fairy tale book.

I think many, use the Bible as a scapegoat, because we don't want to admit to our stupidity of being taken in by the Watchtower organisation. Because they used the Bible in such a big way it becomes the focus of our anger against the Watchtower and in doing so many have rejected the Christian faith.

39

Did you really believe?

by barbar in

i am interested to know whether jw's or ex jw's on this board really did believe 100%.

did you have doubts all of the time, did you have some confusion or did you never doubt at all?

i recognise that most on this board will have had doubts at the end but was this always the case when you were a good dub?

aniron

Hi all first time here.

Does any JW believe 100% ??

They must somewhere in their mind doubt some teaching. Unfortunately they can never give voice to that doubt. Cannot approach anyone, to discuss it, without fear they will end up being punished for daring to disbelieve what the "faith and discreet slave" said.

Yet as can be seen by forums like this that many are still going to meetings etc, just to keep the peace in familes. Even though they have serious doubts about the WT. Its probably being able to give vent on such places as this that keeps them sane.

The sad thing with many JW's is that it slowly dawns on them, over time, that all is not well in the Watchtower garden. By then they are trapped.