It seems that Jesus did not foresee that he would be condemned in the way it happened. He believed he was the Messiah primarily for the Jews, and he thought that the earthly kingdom would come during his days and he would be enthroned by God and Jerrusalem would be free from the romans. But it seems that he did something politicaly wrong in the temple, so he was condemned and crucified. After that, his disciples tried to justify this unexpected death by finding verses of the Old Testament. Then, after 70 AD, some gentile disciples propagated the idea that he was born from a virgin, so he preexisted. Whatever, Jesus wanted to propagate his ideas to the Jews, but not to the gentiles. The Gospel of John contains a higher Christology (Jesus as God the Logos), who was invented many decades after Jesus's death.
opusdei1972
JoinedPosts by opusdei1972
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Jesus as a Ransom for Humans or not
by fulltimestudent ini have not got an answer (theoretical or not) to the above question.. but the main text book (introducing the new testament- its literature and theology - achtemeier, green and thompson) for my study unit (early christian literature and thought) in the assigned reading for today's lecture on the gospel of john, has a section on the ransom.
it says (p. 237): one of the few passages that explicitly speaks of jesus dying for others is mark 10:45:.
"for even the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.. .
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Interesting query and reply about THE CROSS on Bart Ehrman's blog
by Terry inkleenmaint july 5, 2014. dear bart:.
i couldnt find a topic on josephus so i hope you see my question.
in your book did jesus exist on page 59 you quote (antiquities 18.3.3).. both this quotation and the more conservative version that seemed more plausible as his original writing have one very fundamental flaw that you didnt mention.
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opusdei1972
STAUROS had the primary meaning of a simple pole in Homer's times (eight centuries before Christ). But in Jesus days it could be t-shaped, T-shaped, I-shaped and X-shaped. Any honest research would conclude that. Also, Romans generaly placed the patibulum ( a pole) as a crossbar at the vertical stake of the CRUX. Of course, when there were many convicted ones to be tortured, romans had to use one pole on account of the limited numbers of woods.
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"The Cyrus Cylinder"
by Doug Mason ini suspect that i am the last one here who has read the book: the cyrus cylinder: the king of persias proclamation from ancient babylon, edited by irving finkel; published by i. b. tauris, 2013; 144 pages.. so i simply wish to record my deep admiration for the book.
it explains and analyses the cylinders text as well as providing a sympathetic account of the people involved with its ancient and modern history.
(chapter 1: the babylonian perspective; chapter 2: discovery; chapter 5: a persian perspective.
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opusdei1972
thank you Bart Belteshassur and AnnOMaly for the links, I will read them.
AnnOMaly, I think I know you from another ex-witness forum. You used the same nickname, but I was not OPUS there.
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The More I Think, The More I Lose Faith In BIBLE!!
by NoMoreHustle insitting through this weeks wt study.
paragraph came up about how "a fire came out from jah & consumed (korah and) the 250 men offering the incense".
i said to myself this supposedly happened couple of thousand years ago.
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opusdei1972
The Christian Bible has anything to do with what is happening now, because their last books were written for people of the end of the first century or the first half of the second century. According to the Synoptics Gospels, Jesus would come back before the end of his generation. But it did not happen, so, if Jesus said it, he was a false prophet.
On the other hand, the Hebrew Bible contains many accounts now proven to be false by archaeologists and scholars of textual criticism.
Therefore, the Bible can't be useful to guide our daily life in this modern age.
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Unquestionably, the Bibles account of Moses is credible
by opusdei1972 inthe article entitled "mosesman or myth?
" was published in awake!
2004 (g04 4/8 pp.
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opusdei1972
The article entitled "Moses—Man or Myth?" was published in Awake! 2004 (g04 4/8 pp. 4-9). Here I quote the relevant portions of the article:
Many scholars today dismiss these events [told in the book of Exodus] as fiction. “The fact is,” says Christianity Today, “that not one shred of direct archaeological evidence has been found for [the years] the children of Israel sojourned in Egypt.” While direct physical proof may be lacking, there is considerable indirect evidence that the Bible account is credible. In his book Israel in Egypt, Egyptologist James K. Hoffmeier says: “Archaeological data clearly demonstrates that Egypt was frequented by the peoples of the Levant [countries bordering on the eastern Mediterranean], especially as a result of climatic problems that resulted in drought . . . Thus, for a period roughly from 1800 to 1540 B.C., Egypt was an attractive place for the Semitic-speaking people of western Asia to migrate.”
Ok, the Hiksos were ruling partialy the land of Egypt, but the Insight book noticed the following:
Regarding this period of Egyptian history, C. E. DeVries noted: “In attempting to correlate secular history with the biblical data, some scholars have tried to equate the expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt with the Israelite Exodus, but the chronology rules out this identification, and other factors as well make this hypothesis untenable. . . . The origin of the Hyksos is uncertain; they came from somewhere in Asia and bore Semitic names for the most part.”—The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, edited by G. Bromiley, 1982, Vol. 2, p. 787. (it-1 pp. 686-699)
Even so, critics balk at the notion of a large-scale exodus of Jews from Egypt. Scholar Homer W. Smith argued that such a mass movement “would certainly have resounded loudly in Egyptian or Syrian history . . . It is more likely that the legend of the exodus is a garbled and fanciful account of the flight from Egypt to Palestine of a relatively few members.”
True, no Egyptian record of this event has been found. But the Egyptians were not above altering historical records when the truth proved to be embarrassing or went against their political interests. When Thutmose III came to power, he tried to obliterate the memory of his predecessor, Hatshepsut. Says Egyptologist John Ray: “Her inscriptions were erased, her obelisks surrounded by a wall, and her monuments forgotten. Her name does not appear in later annals.” Similar attempts to alter or conceal embarrassing facts have even taken place in modern times.
As for the lack of archaeological evidence for the wilderness sojourn, we must remember that the Jews were nomads. They built no cities; they planted no crops. Presumably, they left behind little more than footprints. Still, convincing evidence of that sojourn can be found within the Bible itself. Reference is made to it throughout that sacred book. (1 Samuel 4:8; Psalm 78; Psalm 95; Psalm 106; 1 Corinthians 10:1-5) Significantly, Jesus Christ also testified that the wilderness events took place.—John 3:14.
Unquestionably, then, the Bible’s account of Moses is credible, truthful.Note that there was no proof provided to conclude that "unquestionably" the Bible's account of Moses is credible. Do you believe that after 40 years of a wilderness sojourn the israelites left "little more than footprints"?
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Jehovah's Witnesses come knocking
by opusdei1972 ininteresting video, and how the witnesses reacted:.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvyaoilfmqw.
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opusdei1972
Interesting video, and how the witnesses reacted:
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"The Cyrus Cylinder"
by Doug Mason ini suspect that i am the last one here who has read the book: the cyrus cylinder: the king of persias proclamation from ancient babylon, edited by irving finkel; published by i. b. tauris, 2013; 144 pages.. so i simply wish to record my deep admiration for the book.
it explains and analyses the cylinders text as well as providing a sympathetic account of the people involved with its ancient and modern history.
(chapter 1: the babylonian perspective; chapter 2: discovery; chapter 5: a persian perspective.
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opusdei1972
I did not know that stuff. How could I compare the words of Ezra with those in Cyrus' Cylinder? Can you provide some quotations?
Regards,
OPUS
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The New World Translation
by Coded Logic inone of the jws foundational doctrines is their belief in the inerrancy of the bible.
there are several methods they use to try and support this position including their claim that the bible, as it exists today, is the exact same bible that has been around for thousands of years.
they teach that gods word has been perfectly preserved.
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opusdei1972
The Church Father Polycarp quoted the book of Tobit in the second century. Clement, bishop of Rome, quoted the book of Wisdom at the end of the first century. The canonical letter of Jude quoted the book of Enoch. Accordingly, early christians used more books than those in NWT.
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JW stand on Philosophy is inexcusable!
by Pinku inpaul knew that torah with all its rituals and sacrifices did not originate with god (jeremiah 7:22; 8:8), hence he warned christians to guard against deceptive philosophy that would take them back to torah.
(colossians 2:8 compare 2:11, 16, 17) in view of the over-all view of the bible, there is no excuse to use the word philosophy with any negative connotation.
jws built their stand on philosophy based on this wrong (negative) use of the word philosophy found in colossians 2:8.. the greek word philosophi a means love of wisdom.
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opusdei1972
Tertullian was a fanatic christian who rejected philosophy but he used it when needed:
These are "the doctrines" of men and "of demons" 1 Timothy 4:1 produced for itching ears of the spirit of this world's wisdom: this the Lord called "foolishness," and "chose the foolish things of the world" to confound even philosophy itself. For (philosophy) it is which is the material of the world's wisdom, the rash interpreter of the nature and the dispensation of God. Indeed heresies are themselves instigated by philosophy. From this source came the Æons, and I known not what infinite forms, and the trinity of man in the system of Valentinus, who was of Plato's school. From the same source came Marcion's better god, with all his tranquillity; he came of the Stoics. Then, again, the opinion that the soul dies is held by the Epicureans; while the denial of the restoration of the body is taken from the aggregate school of all the philosophers; also, when matter is made equal to God, then you have the teaching of Zeno; and when any doctrine is alleged touching a god of fire, then Heraclitus comes in. The same subject-matter is discussed over and over again by the heretics and the philosophers; the same arguments are involved. Whence comes evil? Why is it permitted? What is the origin of man? And in what way does he come? Besides the question which Valentinus has very lately proposed— Whence comes God? Which he settles with the answer: From enthymesis and ectroma. Unhappy Aristotle! Who invented for these men dialectics, the art of building up and pulling down; an art so evasive in its propositions, so far-fetched in its conjectures, so harsh, in its arguments, so productive of contentions— embarrassing even to itself, retracting everything, and really treating of nothing! Whence spring those "fables and endless genealogies," 1 Timothy 1:4 and "unprofitable questions," Titus 3:9 and "words which spread like a cancer?" 2 Timothy 2:17 From all these, when the apostle would restrain us, he expressly names philosophy as that which he would have us be on our guard against. Writing to the Colossians, he says, "See that no one beguile you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, and contrary to the wisdom of the Holy Ghost." He had been at Athens, and had in his interviews (with its philosophers) become acquainted with that human wisdom which pretends to know the truth, while it only corrupts it, and is itself divided into its own manifold heresies, by the variety of its mutually repugnant sects. What indeed has Athens to do with Jerusalem? What concord is there between the Academy and the Church? What between heretics and Christians? Our instruction comes from "the porch of Solomon," who had himself taught that "the Lord should be sought in simplicity of heart." Wisdom 1:1 Away with all attempts to produce a mottled Christianity of Stoic, Platonic, and dialectic composition! We want no curious disputation after possessing Christ Jesus, no inquisition after enjoying the gospel! With our faith, we desire no further belief. For this is our palmary faith, that there is nothing which we ought to believe besides. (Prescription against Heretics, chapter 7)
This guy was a lunatic, though well educated compared with most christians of that time.
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Lying about Shunning! jw.org conceals the "truth"
by Skinnedsheep inhttp://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/ .
"those who were baptized as jehovahs witnesses but no longer preach to others, perhaps even drifting away from association with fellow believers, are not shunned.
in fact, we reach out to them and try to rekindle their spiritual interest.".
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opusdei1972
The marketing strategy is this : lie before the general public, then show the real face to the stupid members.