opusdei1972

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Posts by opusdei1972

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  17

  Question on the sun created in the fourth day

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the first day elohim created light, and it was day and night in the first day.

  then in the fourth day he created the sun, the moon and the stars.

  of course, it did not actually happen, but what did the writer have in mind?.

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  opusdei1972

  I also found an interesting answer on how could the writer of Genesis 1 could thought that there was light, day and night in the first creative day without creating the sun and the stars (knowing that these were created in the fourth day). So here I quote what I found:

  The view of light and darkness as physical entities that cause day and night can be found in at least one ANE text as well. In a fragmentary Sumerian tablet (NBC 11108) from Nippur during the Ur III period (21st cent. BCE), we find the following:

  When Anu, the lord, made heaven shine, made earth dark… Heaven and earth he held together as one… Day did not shine; in night, heaven stretched forth. Earth, bringing forth plant life did not glow on its own…[11]

  The text describes the Sumerian high god Anu’s creation of the world. When Anu separates heaven and earth, the heavens shine but the earth does not. In other words, when the heavens and earth were combined in the primordial mush, there was perpetual night. By separating the heavens from the earth, Anu also separates light from darkness.

  Wayne Horowitz notes the parallel with Genesis:

  In NBC 11108:8, as in Genesis, where day exists before the creation of the sun, moon, and stars, the heavens are conceived to have had their own glow, irrespective of the presence of luminaries. [12]
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  17

  Question on the sun created in the fourth day

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the first day elohim created light, and it was day and night in the first day.

  then in the fourth day he created the sun, the moon and the stars.

  of course, it did not actually happen, but what did the writer have in mind?.

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  2. 
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• 

  opusdei1972

  I have read an interesting explanation that makes sense. The creation story of Genesis 1 was intended to emphasize that every creation was "good". The author insists after the end of each "creative day", that for God it was good. So this seems to have been written in the babylonian exile in opposition of the babylonian dualism which believed in some evil creations. Then an editor joined the story of chapter 2 with this of chapter 1 in spite of the contradictions.
  
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  17

  Question on the sun created in the fourth day

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in the first day elohim created light, and it was day and night in the first day.

  then in the fourth day he created the sun, the moon and the stars.

  of course, it did not actually happen, but what did the writer have in mind?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  opusdei1972

  In the first day Elohim created light, and it was day and night in the first day. Then in the fourth day he created the sun, the moon and the stars. How could it be ?. Of course, it did not actually happen, but what did the writer have in mind?. The Watchtower Society tries to avoid this unscientific ancient view of Genesis by telling us that the sun was indeed created before the first day. So the Society says in a footnote:

  In the description of what happened on the first “day,” the Hebrew word used for light is ʼohr, light in a general sense; but concerning the fourth “day,” the word used is ma·ʼohrʹ, which refers to the source of light.

  I don't think that this argument on Hebrew's grounds is correct. I think it is misleading. Is there any scholar in Hebrew here to analyze the above argument?

  On the other hand, Richard Elliot Friedman says:

  People have questioned whether the first three days are twenty-four hour days since the sun is not created until the fourth day. But light, day, and night are not understood here to depend on the existence of the sun, so there is no reason to think that the word “day” means anything different on the first two days (sic) than what it means everywhere else in the Torah. People’s reason for raising this is often to reconcile the biblical creation story with current evidence of the earth’s age. But it is better to recognize that the biblical story does not match the evidence than to stretch the story’s plain meaning in order to make it fit better with our current state of knowledge.

  Also Friedman, said:

  Note that daylight is not understood here to derive from the sun. The text understands the light that surrounds us in the daytime to be an independent creation of God, which has already taken place on the first day. The sun, moon, and stars are understood here to be light sources—like a lamp or torch, only stronger. Their purpose is also to be markers of time: days, years, appointed occasions
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  50

  No updated Watctower's articles on Evolution

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  as far as i know, the "creation" book is out of print ?, am i right?.

  well, i was searching for new watchtower articles trying to debunk, for instance, human evolution.

  so, i did my homework, for the first time, so as to read past and updated papers and books on human evolution.

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  opusdei1972

  The most absurd thing is that the Watchtower Society still shows in its literature (their Insight Encyclopedia), that Adam was created 6000 years ago:

  Finally, after 930 years, most of which was spent in the slow process of dying, Adam returned to the ground from which he was taken, in the year 3096 B.C.E., just as Jehovah had said.—Ge 4:8-26; 5:5-24; Jude 14; see LAMECH No. 2. (Insight, Volume 1, Adam)

  This is, of course, unacceptable in this XXI century. Neanderthals disappeared 40 000 years ago, and the overlapping with modern humans is just about 5000 years. so there were modern humans more than three decades before the mythical Adam.
  
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  50

  No updated Watctower's articles on Evolution

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  as far as i know, the "creation" book is out of print ?, am i right?.

  well, i was searching for new watchtower articles trying to debunk, for instance, human evolution.

  so, i did my homework, for the first time, so as to read past and updated papers and books on human evolution.

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  opusdei1972

  I am no more a believer, but I have to admit that the Catholic Church has improved their understanding of some Bible texts. The Catholic Church, in practice, now admits that some Bible accounts can't be taken seriously as historical facts. Nevertheless, Jehovah's Witnesses insist in believing with literalism in Adam and Eve and the Flood's story. Let us read:

  "Fundamentalism also places undue stress upon the inerrancy of certain details in the biblical texts, especially in what concerns historical events or supposedly scientific truth. It often historicizes material which from the start never claimed to be historical. It considers historical everything that is reported or recounted with verbs in the past tense, failing to take the necessary account of the possibility of symbolic or figurative meaning."

  (THE INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE IN THE CHURCH, pontifical Biblical Commission Presented on March 18, 1994 )
  
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  50

  No updated Watctower's articles on Evolution

  by opusdei1972 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  as far as i know, the "creation" book is out of print ?, am i right?.

  well, i was searching for new watchtower articles trying to debunk, for instance, human evolution.

  so, i did my homework, for the first time, so as to read past and updated papers and books on human evolution.

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  opusdei1972

  As far as I know, the "Creation" book is out of print ?, Am I right?. if so, WHY ?,... well, I was searching for new Watchtower articles trying to debunk, for instance, human evolution. So, I did my homework, for the first time, so as to read past and updated papers and books on human evolution. So I downloaded papers published in Science, Nature, Journal of Human Evolution, Evolutionary Anthropology, Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, the book "The Primate Origins of Human Nature", and the book "The First Humans, Origin and Early Evolution of the Genus Homo". So, I think I did a good homework by observing the fosil records, then I proved for myself that the current evidence is overwhelming in showing that there were primitive homo species well before Neanderthals and modern humans. Even Neanderthals show morphological difference in some bones.

  So, I suspect that the Society would have a hard task in writing a new "Creation" book, regarding the overwhelming updated evidences. See, for example, the Turkana boy (a Homo Erectus of 1.5 millions of years. It is not a monkey, nor a human. So, the Society is avoiding to treat this issue many years ago.
  
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  12

  Catholic church raised a cry of alarm, every year thousand of Catholics become J.W

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  my brother (elder) e-mailed this to my sister(not a jw).

  the francisco pope praises j.w worldwide.

  oh shit, they will have a field day with this.

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  opusdei1972

  I don't think that currently the Witnesses are increasing.
  
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  32

  What Happens to Adam and Eve?

  by Cold Steel in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in jw theology, what happens to adam and eve?

  are they resurrected and become heirs to paradise on earth?

  or will they become two of the heavenly class?

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  opusdei1972

  This is my interpretation of the fundation of the Jehovism theology, which also applies for Jehovah's organization mind. Jehovah wanted them to be ignorant, this is why the tree of the forbidden fruit was called "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". Once you eat the fruit of the knowledge your "god" can't be Jehovah, because the god of the Bible is the god of the ignorance.
  
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  32

  Using the term "Watchtower" when talking to a JW

  by Sanchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone else noticed how alarm bells go off inside a jw mind as soon as they hear someone that "is out" refer to the leaders of this org as "watchtower"?

  i've chatted with a few friends now about my doubts and each and every time i've started using phrases such as "watchtower said this" or "watchtower did that", i can almost see their heads about to explode in anger, as if they've just realized they are talking to the lucifer himself.

  some have even interrupted and corrected me by reminding me that it's not "watchtower", it's "god's organization".

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  opusdei1972

  Gerrit Losch ( a governing body member) was asked to declare about the Watchtower, but he said that he has nothing to do with the Watchtower, because he leads the Jehovah's Witnesses. Of course, this is a lie, but as I see, the dubs are using the same tactic.
  
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  46

  Call for Judicial Hearing by signed letter

  by sp74bb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm quite surprised about the new approach of some local congregation brothers respect about my fade.... funny, ilegal and very dangerous in view of the different laws regarding personal data and minorities in spain and in the eu.... i already organized a press meeting with main newspapers in spain.

  many has shown interest in this situation.

  the fact of that a parallel judicial system do exist is amazing them.

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  opusdei1972

  My sister was accused of apostasy by the elders and they asked her to attend a judicial hearing, however, she asked them a formal letter specifying the charge so as to attend the judicial hearing with her attorney. Nevertheless, the elders did not want to do anything in writing. After some years, they disfellowshipped her by phone, but they always avoided to put something in writing.