Actually in many places in the NT they do assert they are being inspired-- They write things to the churches from God, They use phrases like "the Lord, not I, says these things to you", some are direct visions for the church like Revelations and the NT also says that we are to beware those teaching another gospel besides what they {the apostles} have taught us from God. All the writings also are in accordance and do not contradict the oT that was already writen which is one of the tests of a reliable inspiration source. They are also accurate in historical account and propecy. You may not believe in what they say but the authors clearly believed and taught that they were inspired by God to write the NT books. Etc... Etc... etc...
Adonai438
JoinedPosts by Adonai438
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All Scripture is Inspired of God...
by cellomould inwhen paul wrote the often quoted words of 2 tim 3:16, to what was he referring?.
to what he himself was writing in his letter to timothy?.
no, of course not.. he was referring to scripture to which his audience, timothy, was familiar.
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The God of Abraham praise
by Justin inthe god of abraham praise.
who reigns enthroned above,.
ancient of everlasting days,.
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Adonai438
Amen & Halleluyah !
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Adonai438
Are y'all speaking in tongue ?
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Diary of an Armageddon Survivor
by Adonai438 ini had this forwarded to me and wasn't sure if it came from here originally or not-- but i found it sadly, funny.
thought you might be able to relate and get a good laugh .
diary of an armageddon survivor.
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Adonai438
I had this forwarded to me and wasn't sure if it came from here originally or not-- but I found it sadly, funny. Thought you might be able to relate and get a good laugh [8>]
DIARY OF AN ARMAGEDDON SURVIVOR
by Michael PendleyDAY 1
Well, the Big A is over and I survived. I made my way down to the Kingdom Hall this morning. By the end of the day, most of the congregation had gathered at the Hall. Some brothers and sisters are still missing. Ed Thorn, our presiding overseer, told us that those who were missing should have spent more time in field service.
DAY 2
Brother Thorn called a special meeting this morning. He announced that he and the other elders would now be assuming full authority over our new community until contact was reestablished with headquarters. All decisions regarding community regulations, living arrangements, work assignments, and other matters would be at the sole discretion of the elders. Sam Greene objected to this dictatorial policy until Thorn pulled out a letter from the Society dated several months ago which stated that, after Armageddon, the local body of elders would be responsible for all decisions until otherwise directed by the Society. Sam voiced no further objections. The rest of us also accepted the new arrangement. The first new rule was not long in coming - all brothers and sisters were required to report to the Kingdom Hall at 8:00 every morning to receive work assignments and other instructions.
DAY 3Brother Thorn has assigned me to the burial detail. It seems that most of us single brothers have been assigned this unpleasant duty. The dead bodies are already starting to get to me. It sickens me to watch the birds and other animals scavenge the corpses. I actually saw a raven pluck out an eyeball today. Disgusting! Rob Johnson got a bulldozer running and has begun to dig a large common grave. My job is to go around collecting bodies and load them into the back of a pickup truck.
DAY 4
We had our first judicial hearing today. Larry and Sue Winters had moved into the McRae mansion in what was once the exclusive Cypress Oaks subdivision. The problem was that Sister Thorn had already had her eye on the place and, as wife of the presiding overseer, she figured that she should have first choice. Brother Thorn told Brother and Sister Winter that they had no right to claim anything without approval of the elders. They were ordered to get out of the house by nightfall. The Winters were very disappointed but they agreed to move out.
DAY 5
At the morning meeting, the Thorns announced that they would be moving into the McRae place. The Winters were livid, but they didn’t say anything. It was also announced that the surrounding estate homes had been assigned to the other elders. Position has privilege, even in the New World. Some of the brothers have started calling the area “Elder Hill”. It was also announced that anyone wanting to appropriate a home must first file a request with the elders. I have decided to stay in my own house. It doesn’t seem right to move into someone else’s home, even if they were worldly. It makes me sad when I go into someone’s house and see the family pictures and personal belongings. Most of the others don’t feel this way, it doesn’t bother them to loot the dead.
DAY 8
The elders announced a new meeting schedule at the morning meeting. On Sunday, we will still have the public talk followed by a study of old Watchtower articles (until we get new magazines). On Tuesday night, we will have a congregational book study. The Service Meeting has been canceled (no need for it anymore) along with the Ministry School. They have been replaced by an instructional session to be held on Friday night. This new meeting will instruct us on how to conduct ourselves in the New World Society. The best thing, of course is no more field service!
DAY 10This burial work is taking a heavy toll on me. I can’t help but feel saddened at the waste of so much human life. Why couldn't Jehovah have found a way to save more people? The children are the worst, I can’t stand to see their little bodies anymore. I don’t think I’ll report for work tomorrow.
DAY 11I didn’t go to work today. Ed Thorn came by later in the morning and asked me why I wasn’t at work. I told him I didn’t feel well. He told me to get to work, that everyone feels well all the time in the New World. He also told me that depression and mental anxiety were things of the past. Of course, he doesn’t have to bury the bodies.
DAY 14
It’s been two weeks now. I really miss things like electricity and running water. I wonder if we’ll ever get those things working again. Rob Johnson and I borrowed a generator from the Hall last night and hooked it up to my television and VCR. We had a great time watching some “Star Trek” videos and a tape of last year’s Superbowl. I really miss television.
DAY 20
Still no word from the Society. We have spoken to representatives from surrounding congregations but the elders are not allowing any travel. Carol Woods wanted to visit her sister in the next county to see if she made it through okay, but Brother Thorn told her to stay put and be patient. After all, she would have plenty of time to see her sister later. I think that was a cruel thing to say.
DAY 30We finally finished most of the burial work. I am so relieved. The scavenger birds are still hanging around. I have grown to hate the sight of the fat, disgusting creatures. One of the damn things attacked me today. I guess they have acquired a taste for human flesh.
DAY 45
Many of the brothers and sisters are getting sick of being bossed around by the elders. They run things like an old South plantation, we are the slaves, they are the overseers. I have been reassigned to work on the communal farm. It is hard work, but it beats the burial detail. Sam Greene is organizing a Committee to speak to the elders about some of the complaints that we all have.
DAY 47
The elders found out about Sam Greene’s attempted “rebellion”. At the morning meeting, he was publicly reprimanded and told to pray for a humble spirit. No one is to speak to him until he has shown proper repentance. I can’t believe that we are disfellowshipping people in the New World!
DAY 51
Today a messenger finally arrived from the Society. Wade Peters, a young Bethelite, arrived on horseback. He told us that the Society has moved all headquarters staff to Patterson after the destruction of New York City. We also received the first post-Armageddon Watchtower (now issued quarterly). Many of us had hoped that it would contain information allowing us more personal freedom but we were disappointed to read that we were to keep following the instruction of the local elders until further notice. He also gave the elders a copy of a new procedure manual (titled “ORGANIZATION FOR THE NEW WORLD”), but none of us were allowed to see it.
DAY 69
My best friend got married today in a shotgun wedding! Rob and Sally Kennedy were discovered together while engaged in a heavy kissing session. Sally’s blouse was unbuttoned and Rob had his hand on her exposed breast. After a judicial meeting, Brother Thorn announced that they were now married, without a ceremony or anything! Rob objected strenuously, explaining that he and Sally had not had sex. Brother Thorn, however, declared that the decision was in keeping with the new elder procedure manual. Sally seems happy enough but Rob is in a state of shock. I remember he once told me that he liked Sally’s body, but thought that she was as dumb as a box of rocks. Now he is married to her forever. I’ll have to remember to keep my hands in my pockets when I date any sisters.
DAY 80
The newlyweds are not getting along. There has been a lot of gossip about their horrible spats. Rob confided to me today that he went to the elders in an attempt to get the marriage annulled. They told him that according to the Society’s new procedure manual, no divorces or annulments would be allowed for any reason. In addition, all marriages now have to be approved by the local body of elders.
DAY 81Sam Greene was reinstated today. He is still unhappy, but keeps his thoughts to himself now.
DAY 89
We are all in a state of shock! Rob committed suicide today. I guess the idea of spending eternity with Sally was not acceptable to him. The elders refused to let us hold a funeral service. I volunteered to bury my friend. Brother Thorn instructed me to bury him in the common grave where we had put the worldly persons. No one came to the graveside, not even his widow. I said a prayer for my friend. I will miss Rob greatly.
DAY 100
Life is becoming miserable for many of us. The elders keep placing new rules on us every day. We are told we must lead holy lives of service and submission. No dissent or discussion is allowed. It seems like we had more freedom before Armageddon. I never thought I would be nostalgic about the old world.
DAY 111I can’t take it here anymore. I am going to travel to my brother’s place, about a hundred miles from here. Traveling on foot, I think I can make it in about five days. I wish I could get gasoline for my car. I’ll have to sneak out, since the leaders still aren’t giving anyone permission to travel. I have stored some food and plan to leave tonight after the curfew. I hope my brother is still alive, maybe he will know if Mom and Dad are okay.
DAY 112I made it out of town today. I wonder if they miss me yet? The destruction in the countryside is incredible. How will we ever rebuild everything”? I’ve seen quite a few skeletons already. I guess there is still a lot of burial work to do before we build a paradise.
DAY 113
I ran into a group of brothers from Westview congregation. I was detained at gunpoint! Brother Thorn had gotten word to them to be on the outlook for me. I am furious! Why can’t I visit my brother?
DAY 114
Ed Thorn and two ministerial servants arrived today to escort me back "home." They were all carrying guns.
DAY 115After my attempted escape and several other disciplinary problems involving other brothers, the elders have now set up a gun-toting police force. I was, of course, disfellowshipped at the morning meeting. I have been assigned to latrine duty.
DAY 116
I was instructed to report to the Kingdom Hall after work for “additional instruction.” I saw Sam Greene and a couple of other “troublemakers” there. We were subjected to an hour of “re-indoctrination,” mostly the usual crap about maintaining a servant’s spirit and not to think too much of ourselves. We were told to come back next week for more of the same.
DAY 123
I blew up today at the re-indoctrination meeting. I told Ed Thorn that I was sick of him acting like a theocratic Hitler. I also told him that I was leaving the community and that he better not try to stop me. Big mistake! Thorn called his police force in and had me arrested. I am being detained under armed guard in a makeshift jail cell in the Kingdom Hall basement.
DAY 124
My judicial hearing is scheduled for tomorrow. Sam Greene came by to see me. When the guards were out of earshot, he told me that his efforts to contact the Society about the local elders had done no good. He had been told by the Society to keep quiet and obey the elders without question. Sam is very depressed about this and about my situation.
DAY 125
My judicial hearing was held today. Ed Thorn acted as lead prosecutor. I, of course, had no defense counsel and could call no witnesses. After the hearing, which was held in secret, I was judged guilty of being an unrepentant apostate. I was solemnly informed that according to the Society’s instructions (as contained in “ORGANIZATION FOR THE NEW WORLD”), the punishment for apostasy is death by stoning. My execution is scheduled for tomorrow.
DAY 126Well, this is the end. Later today, I will be led out for my execution by stoning. I would rather be shot in the back of the head, but the Society obviously feels that a stoning provides a better object lesson. If I get a chance, I will throw one of the rocks back at Ed Thorn! The funny thing is that I don’t really feel so bad about my impending demise. This New World Society is not my idea of a paradise and I don’t want to live with these people for all eternity. From paradise regained to paradise lost again.
EpilogueEveryone turned out for my stoning, even the kids. Ed Thorn solemnly pronounced my death sentence and then quoted scripture telling everyone to "not to let their eye feel sorry." No one did. My only regret is that they tied my hands behind my back so that I couldn't return any of their rocks with interest. Not very sporting. The last thing I saw before the lights went out was a sickening smirk on Thorn's face. Then I woke up. In Heaven! And there was St. Peter.
"Welcome to Paradise, my child," he said as he gently took my hand.
Confused, I said, "But I thought paradise was back on Earth with the Witnesses."
"No," explained St. Peter, "that was Hell." -
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SAVE ROE NOW!!!
by Valentine indear friends of reproductive freedom,.
george w bush and his right-wings friends are quietly pursuing their domestic agenda while the nations attention is focused on international terrorism.. bush's attacks on women's reproductive freedom continue.. examples;.
1. on his first day in the oval office,bush re-instated the global gag rule,which takes family planning funds from organizations that even mention the option of abortion to their patients,risking womens lives overseas.. 2. bush has promised to re-visit the food and drug administration's approval of ru-486.and anti-abortion forces in congress have already introduced a bill to limit it's availability.. 3. with the expected retirement of 3 supreme court justices ,including sandra day o'connor,who is often the critical swing vote on abortion rights issue,bush has made it clear that he will nominate the most adamant opponents of abortion and civil rights.. the bush administration is committed to strategies that limit life saving stem cell research,criminalize abortion providers,reduce the availability of birth control and deny funding of health reproduction education in the schools.. what better way to take on the christian coalition and ultra-right leaders and movements,than to use your voice to speak up now!!.
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Adonai438
Roe is already Saved!
Anyone care to know that 'Roe' herself is now what you would consider
a 'right winger'?
She never had an abortion, became a christian, and now crusades to turn around what she herself calles the worst mistake of her life. -
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Jehovah Won't Hear Your Prayers!
by Smoldering Wick ini decided to make a new thread instead of posting my response on the old one .
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?d=22330&site=3&page=2 .
sf asked:.
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Adonai438
Very good ,smoldering!
Funny how it's always out of 'love' that the JWs get irrational and angry. Why is it such a threat to read the Bible to them or even some of their own literature? Oh yeah, because they are misled!
It's alway such a personal thing with them. I guess it's because if you are right then they know that means they are wrong- they can't look at anything impartially. <>< Angie -
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Y R U AVOIDING THIS?
by puzzled ini was just reading moxy's post "biggest mathematical miracle in the world" .
and as i was reading all the logical reasons why it would have been impossible at least physically impossible, for that many israelites not to mention even one, to wonder through the desert 40 years and not leave a trace of their even having been there.. the only thing that seems to be more incredible then that is how many people on earth believe it.
regardless of weather it's true or not what is it that continues to inspire millions and billions of people to continue to believe?
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Adonai438
Hello REM:
In reply to your statements:Oh, I see you are also a believer in the Hindu Vedas, then.
No I don't believe in them because they do not pass the other tests of truth. The Bible does pass those tests of not containing any errors whether scientific, historical, prophetic etc....Therefore it is correct and truth. We then need to look at whether the Vedas have the same qualification: they do not. Now anything else proporting to be truth would have to be in line with already established truth and not contrary-- Which rules out the Vedas.
Not sure how an inscription that was probably written around the time of Babylonian exile proves that the Exodus from Egypt really happened. Perhaps you could provide the source of this claim?
Would be glad to:
The inscriptions are numerous (not an isolated picture etc..) and they account the events of the exodus including the miracles. Events like the crossing of the red sea, the providing of the quail by God, the miraculous provision of water from the rock, the israelites impatience, plagues, etc...
There is much evidence that these were made by the actual Isrealites in the exodus. For example the alphabet used was a Egyptian-Hebrew combination which is unique to hebrews that spent time in Egypt- like recorded in the bible. Another facinating feature of it is that the animals used in the pictures that accompanied the inscriptions are only animals from the Sinai Penninsula (if they had been made by an egyptian you would expect to find animals native to egypt, pagan gods or symbols used like in the egyptian hieroglyphics). They also contain an interesting strain of egyptian writing unique to the royalty. From biblical and historical accounts it shows that Moses was raised in the Egyptian royal court and highly educated in the language, arts, philosophy, and literature. There is no historical evidence or record that any Egyptians lived in Sinai at any time and the egyptians did not know and understand hebrew to include it in their writtings. This makes Moses and the exiled israelites uniquely qualified and probable to have made the inscriptions.
[Journal of Franciscans of Cairo, 1753; Sinai & Palestine,Arthur Penrhyn Stanly,1905; Sinai Photographed, Charles Foster, 1862; etc]It shows to support that their were actual people that actually went through these things and that this was not some story made up later to include in the Bible.
Another archeological find pertinant is a grave yard in Kibroth-hattaavah (the same region) of jews that died in a supernatural plague. The plague described in Numbers 11:34&35.
There were inscriptions there as well on the graves and tombs in similar language as the previous mentioned which accounted how the people had died and that they were in fact jewish from that time. This goes to show further that the Jews were present and dying there at that time in history and the records inscribed show their history--it is consistent with the Biblical account.[Neibuhr, Biblical Researches, vol.i,pg.113-114] They have even found a tri-lingual inscription that further illustrates the accuracy of the translation into english made by the original archeologist.[Pierce Butler, Djebel Maghara, 1860]May seem like a lot of info-- but there is more! The point is that the events happen and history proves it-- no scholar can look at the evidence and deny it's existance-- you can deny God all you want but the evidence proves that the events recorded in the Bible are accurate and did in fact take place. That conclusion does go to support the existence of God as well but the fact is the Bible is accurate.
Hardly. There are some things that have absolutely no Archeological support, such as the exodus from Egypt and the extensive kingdom of King David and Solomon, the Walls of Jerico being destroyed by the Israelites, and even the claims of conquest of the Caananites by the Israelites. There are also many things in the bible that are contrary to Geological evidence, such as the flood and creation account. That's not to say that the bible doesn't have some or even much of it's history correct. But that is no evidence that it is inspired by god.
Much of what you are denying happening has much evidence. Perhaps you have never heard of it before but as I read the things you list off I can't help but be amazed! One of the books I am looking at at the moment to type up this information for you includes the evidence for virtually every topic you are speaking of! The evidence does exist my friend and I would like to offer you a book.
(free of charge-- no strings attatched-- & you don't have to 'study' with me to get it )
If neccessary I will type in all the historical and archeological evidence and citations but it would be much simpler to just give you the book. If you have a secure address you don't mind giving out I will mail it to you. If that isn't the case maybe I can order it for you and let you fill in the delivery address yourself. That goes for anyone else that is interested in the info too.You strike me as an intellectual honest kinda person so I hope you will consider the evidence and be interested in information on the claims you have made. I'm not asking you to neccessarily believe in God but if it's lack of evidence that is your reason- that really isn't a valid reason after researching the evidence. Hope to hear from you & have a great day <>< Angie
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Do you still believe the WTS doctine's?
by TheRecordCollector inman is a soul,.
christ was created, .
holy spirit a real person, or god's active force?.
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Adonai438
I'll answer your questions with the scriptural proof. May be long but at least it will show the basis for the beliefs
Man IS a soul?
Nope-
People are made up of three parts (a picture of God’s being- we are made in his image)Body, Soul, & Spirit.(1st Thess.5:23)The body is separate from the soul- ‘soul’ is used to denote the whole person but is also a separate part of a person.--Body and soul can be separated and are both perishable- can die: (Matt.10:28)
The Spirit is separate from the soul and can be divided (Heb4:12)
The soul leaves at death (1 Kings 17:21-22)
The spirit leaves at death (Luke 23:46 & Acts 7:59)
Christ was CREATED,
Nope--
John 1 specificly verse 3 where it says everything that has ever been created was created by Christ. Christ could not have very well created himself therefor he was not a created being.Holy Spirit a real person, or God's active force?
Again..........Nope---
He is described as a "he,him,his,I" in scripture, JWs try to 'fix' that but it doesn't change the originals. He has a will, he loves, he speaks, he gets angry, he can be sinned against, etc....you still believe in hell as "the common grave"?
Nah---------
HELL: Three words that are translated ‘Hell’--
Tartarous is used only once in 2 Peter 2:4 to describe the place God had prepared for devil and his angels- this may also be what is called the abyss where Satan will be bound for the 1000 year reign of Christ.
Hades/Sheol is used for the physical grave and the spiritual hell the wicked will suffer in until their judgment at the end of time. This is conscious as discussed above. Again pictured in Luke 16. Also notice 1 Peter 3:18-19- Spirits in prison.
Gehenna is used of Hell, The Lake of Fire, where Satan, his demons, and all wicked people will spend eternity after their judgment at the end of time.Rev.20:15-wicked people, Rev.20:10-Satan, Rev. 19:20-Beast & False Prophet.
Gehenna too is conscious. The wicked that are cast into it after judgement are NOT merely annihilated or cease to exist. For example: Rev. 19:20 is where the Beast and the False Prophet are ‘thrown’ . After this is the millennial kingdom-- 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth(Rev.20:4-6At the end of the 1000 years Satan is free for a short time to deceive who he will to fight against God (Rev.20:7-8). God consumes the people following Satan with fire(Rev.20:9and casts Satan into the Lake of Fire(Rev20:10). But read [b]Rev. 20:10 closely-- When Satan is thrown in he is with the beast and they False Prophet and they will be together tormented day and night forever and ever. The Beast and False Prophet were thrown in 1000 years before Satan but are clearly still there! This is the same Lake of Fire as the wicked are destined to so why would it not also be eternal punishment for them too? The answer is, it is eternal.
God does not want people to go to hell but this is the punishment for not choosing him.[b]2 Peter 3:9,Heb.9:27, Matt.25:46 -
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Y R U AVOIDING THIS?
by puzzled ini was just reading moxy's post "biggest mathematical miracle in the world" .
and as i was reading all the logical reasons why it would have been impossible at least physically impossible, for that many israelites not to mention even one, to wonder through the desert 40 years and not leave a trace of their even having been there.. the only thing that seems to be more incredible then that is how many people on earth believe it.
regardless of weather it's true or not what is it that continues to inspire millions and billions of people to continue to believe?
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Adonai438
First of all, the Bible and the Torah aren't separate things-- the Bible includes the Torah in it.
I don't think the Bible has survived these thousands of years by dumb luck or by human need to cling to something. It survived because truth has a way of doing that
And Actually, there is archeological proof for the Israelites wanderings in the desert.
During the Last century a number of explorers re-discovered a group of ancients inscriptions in the Wadi Mukatteb(The Vally of the Writing) in the Sinai Peninsula. When they were deciphered the researchers concluded that they contained detailed descriptions of the events of the Exodus from Egypt by the Children of Israel under the leadership of Moses. These inscriptions are even refered to in historical writings well before the time of Christ. Scholars concluded that these inscriptions were most likely written by either the Israelites themselves or others that were alive at the time.
I have pictures and the translations into english of the inscriptions in a book I own as well as more information on similar topics if interested.
Everything in the Bible is archeologically correct and supported. There is not one finding contrary to scripture to date. Interesting topic though to see how incredibly supported by archeology and history and science the Bible is.<>< Angie
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Questions for Evolutionists
by RWC init appears that alot of people on this board believe in evolution (either by that name or by another) as the explanation for the origins of life.
to those people i would sincerely ask the following:.
1. where did plants come from?.
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Adonai438
I am sorry I don't have the time right now to read all the replys so far on the issue but wanted to express support and offer for further information on the topic from a creationist point of view. I am a creationist by choice after researching the evidence for both sides. I don't blindly believe in anything. No, evolution does not rule out God entirely, but you do enter shaky ground when you stop taking God and scripture literaly. (Some parts are symbolic but those are clearly distinguished from the historical accounts given)
Here is a link to an interesting site on the matter and I have a very detailed book I am willing to give or lend anyone interested.
Have a fabulous day
<>< Angie
http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/home.html