Narkissos

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Posts by Narkissos

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  11

  XMAS PARTY-ZERO GUILT

  by stillajwexelder in

  1. forum
  2. suggestions

  just want to let you all know i went to the company christmas party last night -- crabs legs appetizer, salad, prime rib (cooked rare), strawberry cheese cake washed down with bourbon and a jack phelps californian red --- but the best bit of all -- -it felt good and i had zero guilt - and did not bump into and jws so i am not going to get dfd just yet!

  !

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  Narkissos

  Merry Christmas sjwxe!

  I just enjoy this time with my 7-year old daughter as I did when I was a little boy, before the JW mess came up.
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  37

  Losing the Truth in Bible Translations?

  by ApagaLaLuz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here's something i wanted to throw out for debate.

  there is a line in a smashing pumpkins song that says "something always gets lost in the translation.

  " how true of a translation of the bible do you think you can find?

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  Narkissos

  Euphemism,

  Your issue is not essential to my argument (the fact IS that the NT writers used the Septuagint, whatever the motives), yet I stick to what I wrote.

  According to the papyrii and epigraphic evidence, it appears that very few people could read and understand Hebrew in 1st century Palestine. The people's language was Aramaic (which was already the case in Ezra-Nehemiah, and is also reflected in the Gospels' transliteration of aramaic words, though all of those do not necessarily come from a Palestinian context), and Greek was amazingly widespread too, especially in Galilee but even in Judea. Hebrew was mostly the language of the priests (Qumrân included) and scribes. It was read but rarely understood in synagogues. As for Paul, the onus probandi rests on your side. I don't see the slightest evidence in his writings that he could read Hebrew fluently. I still remember a well-known French exegete saying, much to the surprise of his audience: "Paul's knowledge of Hebrew was approximately that of the average clergyman years after he has graduated from seminary." Finally, I believe that most NT writers were Hellenistic. There was a patristic tradition about a Hebrew or Aramaic Gospel of Matthew, but most exegetes now think it is not related to the Gospel of Matthew as we now know it.
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  28

  What Is Truth?

  by Blueblades in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is this a complex question,or is it a simple one,who knows?

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  Narkissos

  LoneWolf,

  I am a bit embarrassed at the idea of developing my first comment, since I guess any expansion on it would necessarily depart from it. Although I think James Thomas have found the best possible words to express what I mean.

  I guess if there is such thing as an absolute Truth, it is indeed related to the phrase "I am". That is, "I" as the basic subject of knowledge Socrates could designate in the old motto on the Delphi temple, gnôthi seauthon or "know yourself". It is also what is referred to, in a very different way, by Descartes in his famous cogito ergo sum: I think, hence I am. This point of knowledge is not something you can learn from without, it IS within you and you only realize it at times, just to forget it again. It is not a cornerstone on which you could build any wider absolute knowledge. From this absolute subjective knowledge any further knowledge you may gain is definitely relative. It is a kind of mathematical point where language articulates with silence, being with not-being, real with symbolic. Rather woolly, isn't it?
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  37

  Losing the Truth in Bible Translations?

  by ApagaLaLuz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here's something i wanted to throw out for debate.

  there is a line in a smashing pumpkins song that says "something always gets lost in the translation.

  " how true of a translation of the bible do you think you can find?

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  Narkissos

  Stillajwexelder: you are absolutely right. What I meant in my first post on this thread is the following: translation and its unavoidable drift of meaning (that we may call "error") are part of the very ORIGINAL Christian Bible. It would not be what it is without them.

  When the texts which later were gathered into the New Testament were written (in Greek), most of their authors didn't know Hebrew or Aramaic. They only knew the Jewish old literature (most of which was to be gathered into the Hebrew Bible, or Old Testament according to the Christians) by means of the Greek (Septuagint) translation. It is this translation they mostly quote, and it is often different in meaning from the original Hebrew.

  Just one example (perhaps the most famous one): in Isaiah 7:14 the mother of Emmanuel is called a 'almah, which probably means a nubile girl or a young woman until the birth of her firstborn. The Septuagint used the Greek word parthenos, meaning "virgin". In the Greek text a virgin birth was meant, in the original Hebrew text there is not a hint of it. But it is the Greek text which serves as the basis for the virgin birth stories in Matthew (explicitly) and Luke (implicitly). Thus translation is a part of Scripture.
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  37

  Losing the Truth in Bible Translations?

  by ApagaLaLuz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here's something i wanted to throw out for debate.

  there is a line in a smashing pumpkins song that says "something always gets lost in the translation.

  " how true of a translation of the bible do you think you can find?

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  Narkissos

  A Paduan, you're certainly right, but this is very common. Having been in the field of Bible translation for many years, I can tell you that nobody would dare translating the Bible without having an eye on a good sample of existing translations in several languages. However, whether there was any real first-hand knowledge of Biblical languages by any member of the NW Translation Committee remains an open question.
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  28

  What Is Truth?

  by Blueblades in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is this a complex question,or is it a simple one,who knows?

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  Narkissos

  LoneWolf, I sure enjoyed this thread. Hope to read more from you.

  One step further could be (obviously enough): Absolute truth believed relatively. I think this is exactly what we need to appreciate the specific value of religious thinking (which many would too quickly deny) without falling into sectarism and intolerance.

  Take care,

  Narkissos
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  24

  2004 yb. A Letter From the Governing Body.

  by Blueblades in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those who don't have the 2004 yearbook.

  a letter from the governing body.. dear brothers and sisters:.

  "may you have undeserved kindness and peace from god our father and the lord jesus christ".

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  Narkissos

  Thanks for posting. So many years since I read such b***s***. Typical "old stupid bastards" talk (I lack English vocabulary, for those who know French I mean "vieux cons", which seems slightly stronger). The only funny thing I found is about Jesus as would-be "best carpenter"...

  "When you don't know which way to go, just think where you're coming from" (African proverb)
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  15

  THANKS FOR ALL THE ADVICE!

  by natalienu in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i mentioned it to some family and friends last night on my intentions and what this guy really is and they all hit the roof.

  the only thing i am so annoyed about is the false feelings these idiots obviously put out to get new suckers into their clan.

  they have totally lost the believer in me and anyone that puts the atchtower before love has to get their head read, or kicked in as i would like to do now.

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  Narkissos

  Nat,

  I'm glad reading from you again. Your clear stand MAY help your friend think over what he really wants in life. Whatever the case, don't waste YOUR life.

  Narkissos
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  28

  What Is Truth?

  by Blueblades in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is this a complex question,or is it a simple one,who knows?

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  Narkissos

  When the Master (i.e. the Johannine Jesus, because I doubt the historical Jesus ever said such a thing) says "I am the truth", how is the disciple supposed to respond? "He is the truth", or "I am the truth?" (Reminds me something in The Life of Brian.)

  Muslim mystic and martyr Hallaj is also known for saying "I am the truth".
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  10

  French headscarf ban recommended

  by ignored_one in

  1. social
  2. current

  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3309885.stm

  french headscarf ban recommended

  muslim girls in france could be barred from wearing headscarves in schools after an expert commission recommended a ban on "conspicuous" religious signs.

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  Narkissos

  One amusing side story : a few months ago, a Catholic nun refused to give unveiled identity photos for an official document as legally requested. But she was a personal friend of Mrs. Chirac and the administration accepted the "exception", until the story went out in the press...

  The main problem with the ban is that the Muslim girls wearing hidjab will just stop attending public schools and go instead into confessional private schools where they will be totally subject to religious control.

  Kind of "secular pharisaism" to me...