The exact translation of tachash is uncertain, as most zoological/botanical (or technical: it could also mean a kind of precious leather, not the animal) vocabulary -- just because the Hebrew corpus is very limited and we lack cross-references. However there is etymologically a good case for a sea context ("sea-cow", "porpoise", "dolphin"?). Actually we may never know better...
Narkissos
JoinedPosts by Narkissos
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dolphin skins?
by peacefulpete inwe've touched on a lot of similarities between the yhwh and el/baal cults in recent threads, the parallels and connections are very abundant.
i was just rereading a book that discussed another surprising one.
in leolaia's recent thread about holy mountains we learned how the near eastern gods were frequently portrayed as housing on a mountain from which water issued.
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Canaanite legend quoted in 2 Samuel 1:21?
by Leolaia inthe legend of aqhat, one of the great epic myths preserved in the ugaritic archive at ras shamra, was popular in some form in israel and judah and shows its traces in the ot and later jewish literature.
ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3 makes several passing references to the legend and its hero, an ancient semi-divine king named danel renowned for his wisdom and healing powers.
danel was one of the rephaim, a primeval race of demigod kings who linger on as spirits in sheol and who were revered by the canaanites in ancestor worship (cf.
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Narkissos
PP:
One of my favorite (for very obvious reasons) is Hosea 6:1-3, including an explicit reference to Yhwh-Baal's death and resurrection in the third day:
"Come, let us return to Yhwh; for it is he who has torn, and he will heal us; he has struck down, and he will bind us up. After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will raise us up, that we may live before him.
Let us know, let us press on to know the LORD; his appearing is as sure as the dawn; he will come to us like the showers, like the spring rains that water the earth." -
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Canaanite legend quoted in 2 Samuel 1:21?
by Leolaia inthe legend of aqhat, one of the great epic myths preserved in the ugaritic archive at ras shamra, was popular in some form in israel and judah and shows its traces in the ot and later jewish literature.
ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3 makes several passing references to the legend and its hero, an ancient semi-divine king named danel renowned for his wisdom and healing powers.
danel was one of the rephaim, a primeval race of demigod kings who linger on as spirits in sheol and who were revered by the canaanites in ancestor worship (cf.
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Is Jehovah an invention of Jewish imagination??? The fact seem obvious!
by frankiespeakin inyes, if we think of god as a "transcendant" above everything and then when we think of the biblical jehovah, we come up short 51 cards of a deck of 52.
he is so human,,,, come on,,,,, that to me is proof enough of the preposition that he is just the:
"figment of the jewish imagination"
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Narkissos
Thanks Gita. I am vaguely aware that there has been a definite monotheistic trend in a number of basically polytheistic cultures. It is also apparent in the increasingly monistic development of Greek philosophy, including a singular theos which later met Hellenistic judaism and Christianity. However, in relation to this thread I just wished to point that this is far from being universal. In Buddhism, as far as I know, polytheism is surpassed though not by a "God". And in many cultures polytheism remains active (even when it features a supreme god such as the ancient semitic El, who is not "God").
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Is Jehovah an invention of Jewish imagination??? The fact seem obvious!
by frankiespeakin inyes, if we think of god as a "transcendant" above everything and then when we think of the biblical jehovah, we come up short 51 cards of a deck of 52.
he is so human,,,, come on,,,,, that to me is proof enough of the preposition that he is just the:
"figment of the jewish imagination"
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Narkissos
LW: Briefly, my opinion is that the Bible picture of "Israel's religion" really begins with Josiah's reform, which enforces the exclusive worship of Yhwh (not yet "God") and centralizes it into the royal temple of Jerusalem -- and above all the exile which follows some 35 years later. This is the start of Deuteronomistic history, resulting in the "Egypt / exodus / wilderness / conquest / judges / united monarchy / kingdom division" pattern which, I think, is mostly theological fiction aimed at giving the new religion an old and pure origin (foundational myth). In this perspective, the true historical and religious memories of Israel and Judah are depicted as sinful deviance from an ideal start (Moses / Joshua / Samuel / David / Solomon). If we want to have an idea of the old Israelite religion from the Bible, we'd better look at what is forbidden by the deuteronomistic and postexilic Torah: golden calves/bulls, "high places" (actually temples), ancestor worship, sacred prostitution, Yhwh-Baal and Asherah, and so on.
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Is Jehovah an invention of Jewish imagination??? The fact seem obvious!
by frankiespeakin inyes, if we think of god as a "transcendant" above everything and then when we think of the biblical jehovah, we come up short 51 cards of a deck of 52.
he is so human,,,, come on,,,,, that to me is proof enough of the preposition that he is just the:
"figment of the jewish imagination"
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Narkissos
LW: You didn't misunderstand me, and what I said is certainly debatable and debated.
You may have a look at this link:
http://www.bibleorigins.net/MountHoreb.html
Or google "exodus . wilderness . conquest" to have both critical and apologetic viewpoints...
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Is Jehovah an invention of Jewish imagination??? The fact seem obvious!
by frankiespeakin inyes, if we think of god as a "transcendant" above everything and then when we think of the biblical jehovah, we come up short 51 cards of a deck of 52.
he is so human,,,, come on,,,,, that to me is proof enough of the preposition that he is just the:
"figment of the jewish imagination"
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Narkissos
Patio,
Against your scenario I would hold that:
1) the "nomadic" was at best a minor element in the historical formation of Israel (if not a completely literary creation);
2) the cult of Asherah as consort of Yhwh was not eliminated before Josiah's reform (622 BC).
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Is Jehovah an invention of Jewish imagination??? The fact seem obvious!
by frankiespeakin inyes, if we think of god as a "transcendant" above everything and then when we think of the biblical jehovah, we come up short 51 cards of a deck of 52.
he is so human,,,, come on,,,,, that to me is proof enough of the preposition that he is just the:
"figment of the jewish imagination"
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Narkissos
JamesThomas, my eyes hurt, but this is excellent!
Reminds me of Exodus 33:18ff:
Moses said, "Show me your glory, I pray." And he said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim before you the name, 'Yhwh'; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. But," he said, "you cannot see my face; for no one shall see me and live." And Yhwh continued, "See, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock; and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by; then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back; but my face shall not be seen."
SaintSatan:
On Yhwh and Ugarit, cf. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/62692/1.ashx
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Narkissos
Joke or not (I think it is), this site is definitely hilarious. My favorite is Pr. Giraffenstein and his answers. Great parody -- or subconscious self-parody, which would be even greater...
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who has any good jw memories?
by ambush23 in.
any stories about fun u actaully had in the orginazation?
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Narkissos
Plenty of them.
In my first countryside congregation, nice simple people enjoying to spend time together and have fun besides "theocratic" activities... grand alternative to my pretty screwy "family".
In Bethel, a lot of interesting and witty people, much more open than people would think from outside, who really broadened my views.
So many cherished faces.
One silent threat behind all of this: you must not change; you must not betray. Or you'll lose everything.
I changed. I betrayed. I just couldn't help it.
Silly as it is, that's life.