i'll work on resizing this thing and try it again latter, it was just too big.
Dearest Yeru... may you have peace...
And may I say that what is nice for ME... is to know that 'faith'... comes in all colors, wears all faces... and even wears 'fatigues' (Luke 3:14). Contrary, of course, to WTBTS teaching and doctrine.
Peace to you, dear one!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
seems to me there are mainly three roads most of us have taken.
1.we did something "wrong" and were disfellowshipped and after felt able to look at the society in a different light.. 2.we didn't like the "truth" and were looking for a way out.. 3.we wanted it to be the truth but were overcome by the mountain of evidence against it.. which is the most common i wonder.. also do our motives play a large part in how we deal with information criticising the org.. without a reason to act information seems useless.. for instance if a person feels he has nothing to gain by leaving the org will he read different things into the same info as us?.
i think so and that all who leave must have a reason to do so, something to gain.. this does not make their reasoning wrong or prove they we are looking for just excuse.. but is a normal way in which humans deals with information.. two humans can have the same information but if they want or desire different things they may use the information differently.. maybe thats wht so many say "where else is there to go?
For me, it was #5:
My Lord, THE Truth (John 14:6), personally told me and showed me that the 'truth'... was NOT the truth.
Sorry, but that's the truth.
Peace to you all!
A slave of Christ,
SJ
well i finally got the guts to tell my mother that i had enlisted in the army.
she didn't say a whole lot to me, but she did tell my sister she was calling the elders and that when i was df'd she would have nothing to do with me.
i can't say that it suprises me too much, but i was hoping for more of an adult reaction.
YAY! At least in THIS case... love... 'bore all things', 'hoped all things'... and 'never failed'. Amen... and amen.
Peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SJ
may you all have peace.... and may you know that there is absolutely no significance to the year 1914, other than with historical value to this system of things (i.e., certain world leader assassinated; world war i...
but, with reference to my lord 'arriving' and beginning his rulership, by the spirit of my father that is in me, holy spirit, by means of christ, i say to you that:.
1. my lord began ruling from the moment he was installed and inaugurated... as a king and priest... 'in the manner of melchizedek'... which installation and inauguration was evidenced... by the outpouring of holy spirit at pentecost... 30 ce (sorry, dear ones, but 33ce is an erroneous date contrived by the wtbts to make their 607bce, etc., 'fit'.
May you all have peace...
And may you know that there is absolutely NO significance to the year 1914, other than with historical value to THIS system of things (i.e., certain world leader assassinated; World War I... etc., etc., etc....)
But, with reference to my Lord 'arriving' and beginning his rulership, by the spirit of my Father that is in me, holy spirit, by means of Christ, I say to you that:
1. My Lord began RULING from the moment he was INSTALLED AND INAUGURATED... as a king AND priest... 'in the manner of Melchizedek'... which installation and inauguration was EVIDENCED... by the outpouring of holy spirit at PENTECOST... 30 CE (sorry, dear ones, but 33CE is an erroneous date contrived by the WTBTS to make their 607BCE, etc., 'fit'. Check your history, as well as the birth of my Lord's flesh, as well as the lunar calendar of both years... please.)
2. My Lord only 'arrives' twice... once before... in the flesh... and once more... in the SPIRIT. Had he 'arrived' in 1914, dear ones... he would have another 'arrival' to fulfill. In that light, what in the WORLD are we waiting for? But he will return, and at that time EVERY eye will see him, for he will manifest himself by means of 'opening' the eyes... and ears... of all mankind. What we cannot now see with the flesh... and what had not been reported to the kings of the earth, so that they will shut their mouths... WILL be seen. We will ALL be given eyes and ears of spirit, so as to see him. Whether we wish it... or not.
Please know that I have not been permitted to include 'scriptures' and 'verses' here, for the word of my Lord to you... those of you who have 'ears' to hear... is that your spirit WILL bear witness with this 'truth' and in walking by FAITH, you will not NEED the stone tablets to substantiate this truth for you. If, however, you LACK faith... and need to walk by sight, and see the matter 'proven' in the writings, ask... and you shall 'receive'.
Again, I bid you peace, and I am...
Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and a slave of Christ,
SJ
this subject is really confusing to me.
since it appears that the wtbts is not what it purports to be, what exactly is giving the "anointed" the impression that they have a heavenly calling?
does any of ray franz' books tell exactly what made him feel that way?
SIGH! You Know... WHY must you insist on misleading these dear people?
However, the same spirit of God that anoints one also draws them into an association.
No, they are drawn into a 'union'. Period. One between them, God and Christ. And since is it ONE spirit, they are also 'in union' with one another. IF 'association' was required, why then the TRUTHFUL statment with regard to 'gathering', that some... did NOT do so, and that was THEIR custom? The admonition to 'gather'... was to the HEBREWS, and not to the 'nations', which brings me to your next erroneous statement:
In the 1st century all of the original anointed were Jewish.
I'm sorry, but do you even know what a Jew WAS? It was anyone from the TRIBE of Judah... and Benjamin who later joined themselves TO Judah. The 2-tribe kingdom of JUDAH. THOSE... were the Jews. Cornelius... was NOT a Jew, dear You Know... by NO stretch of the imagination. He was a SAMARITAN... from the 10-tribe kingdom of ISRAEL, as was his 'entire household'. AND... if you will condescend to read Acts 10:44-48, you will SEE that 'the gift of holy spirit... was poured out... ALSO UPON PEOPLE OF THE NATIONS.'
Indeed, while the 12 were 'witnesses of [my Lord] in all Judea and Samaria (which constituted ALL of 'Israel', the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah, which occupied the land of Judea, with Jerusalem as its capital, and the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel, which occupied Samaria, with Bethel as IT's capital)... PAUL... was an 'apostle... to the NATIONS.'
That is WHY... in the Letter to the Romans he FIRST addressed the Jews... 'brothers' (Romans 7:1; 10:1)... and THEN addressed the 'nations' (Romans 11:13) and told THEM that they had been 'grafted in' by reason of ISRAEL's lack of faith. Thus, his letter, addressed to the Jews/Israel AND the nations... contains the greeting "to ALL those who are in Rome as God's beloved ones... CALLED TO BE HOLY ONES." This, dear You Know... is Israel... AND THE NATIONS.
Acts 14:1
And it is CULMINATED in the vision seen by John of 144,000... OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL, 12,000 from each tribe... which includes Jews AND Samaritans (that is why the woman at the well said 'OUR forefathers', speaking of my Lord's AND hers... for they both sprang from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...)... as WELL as 'a great crowd... out of EVERY nation and tribe and tongue and people'... standing BEFORE the throne... and 'RENDERING SACRED SERVICE' in the 'temple'.
Revelation 7:15
It is what Paul(?) was speaking of when he said that SOME (of Israel) had been 'grafted OUT', so that SOME of the 'nations'... could be 'grafted IN.' The royal priesthood of my Lord's kingdom, then, is made up of Israel... AND THE NATIONS.
Revelation 5:9, 10
THAT... is the 'sacred secret' which Paul 'revealed', by means of holy spirit... at Acts 11:25-32... that due to Israel's HARD-HEARTEDNESS, DISOBEDIENCE and LACK OF FAITH, in that they KILLED His Son, rather than KISS him... those of the nations that DID accept my Lord as 'messiah'... replaced those of Israel... that did not.
They went to synagouges and worshipped at the temple even after their anointing.
Not quite. True, they went to synagogues and the temple, but NOT to worship. They went... to tell their brothers, Israel, the GOOD news about the Christ, to preach a RELEASE... and to use the 'gifts' of the spirit that had been granted them to rebuild Israel's faith. Rather than join IN the worship, they preached CHRIST and made 'believers' out of Jews and Greeks, etc., heralded the NEW Covenant to those who still worshipped according to the Law Covenant.
Acts 3:1-4:31
Acts 6:7-7:60
Acts 8:26-40
Acts 13:13-52
Acts 14:1-7
Acts 17:1-15
Acts 18:24-28
But eventually that Jewish system was dissolved, but the spiritual organization survived.
Uh, look around, You Know. The Jewish 'system' has NOT dissolved. It has been 'done away with' ONLY for those who have accepted the NEW Covenant. The physical TEMPLE was destroyed, yes, but the 'system' remains to this day. I mean, isn't there a synagogue in YOUR town? Judaism, my dear one, is the 'head' of the wild beast... that 'received a death stroke that got healed'. Read Jeremiah and you might be able to 'see' that.
You Know... you MUST stop this. You have already blashphemed, and you still teach false rhetoric and erroneous propaganda. Such LIES... are from the 'father' of the lie, [our] Adversary, the Devil. Do you TRULY want to continue in this path? Do you TRULY wish to continue asserting YOUR 'rightness' and 'righteousness' over that of God and Christ? Truly? Well, IF you are going to 'teach'... then it is TRUTH that you must teach. For everything else originates NOT with God and NOT with Life, but with Satan... and with Death.
A TRUE servant to the Household of God, Israel, by means of a TRUE anointing with holy spirit, and a TRUE slave of Christ,
SJ
this subject is really confusing to me.
since it appears that the wtbts is not what it purports to be, what exactly is giving the "anointed" the impression that they have a heavenly calling?
does any of ray franz' books tell exactly what made him feel that way?
Dearest Yrs2long... may you have peace... and may you permit me to explain, by means of the spirit of my Father, JAH OF ARMIES, that is in me, by means of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA (JAH Saves; Psalm 68:4) MISCHAJAH (messiah; anointed/chosen of JAH), through holy spirit.
First, my Lord has directed me to expound to you just what it is to BE 'anointed'. One who has been 'anointed' dear one, has received the free gift, the promised holy spirit, and thus, such one is a 'christian'... a 'christ' person... or 'chosen' person. If one has NOT received such spirit, one is NOT... a 'christian'.
Second, there is only ONE hope for 'christians'... that is, a hope of living forever in the spirit, as opposed to the flesh. It is heavenly in that it ORIGINATES in the spirit realm; however, such ones WILL... reside upon the earth, in the city of NEW Jerusalem, which 'comes down OUT of heaven'... to the earth. Thus, as prophesied, the meek WILL inherit the earth; they will not, however, inherit it as flesh with its blood.
Third, since there is only ONE hope (Eph. 4:4), such hope encompasses BOTH the 144,000... AND... the 'great crowd'. You see, dear one, you have been misled, as I and many others were, into believing that there are two (2) hopes, one heavenly, one earthly. But, in the words of my brother Paul, "I will tell you a sacred secret":
BOTH the great crowd AND the 144,000... are 'one flock'... and TOGETHER... stand before the throne of my Father... and TOGETHER... 'render sacred service in His temple... night and day."
Revelation 7:15
Revelation 5:9, 10
The 'sacred secret', dear one, that the WTBTS has entirely MISSED... is this:
Initially, ALL of Israel was to become a 'house' to God, a 'royal priesthood' in the kingdom of the Son of His love. However, due to their HARD-HEARTEDNESS, MOST of Israel lost out on that 'promise'... and were REPLACED... by people of the nations. However, as always, a REMNANT will be 'saved' in that my Father, by means of my Lord, has designed 144,000 SLOTS for fleshly Israel... in fulfilllment of His promise to Abraham... and David. After that number, however, the REMAINDER of that kingship/priesthood... is to be filled by the NATIONS... the number of which NO MAN is able to number.
Do you see? For their lack of FAITH, Israel... as an entire entity... lost out on the blessing. Because of their lack of faith, the NATIONS... received such blessings. But, since my Father cannot lie, His promise to Abraham WILL go fulfilled, in that 144,000 of Abraham's 'seed' WILL be 'sealed'... to sit on the thrones of such kingdom.
Dear one, there IS no 'heavenly hope' and 'earthly hope' distinction between the 144,000... and the 'great crowd'. THEY... are the 'ONE flock with ONE shepherd' of which my Lord spoke. And BOTH groups have a SPIRITUAL (heavenly) hope, in that they will be given 'white robes'... or spirit bodies... but yet will rule 'over the earth'... and upon it. For New Jerusalem comes down OUT of heaven.. TO the earth... and in this way the 'meek' will 'inherit' the earth... and Satan and Gog and Magog (who have been hurled down TO the earth) are able to be prophesied as 'surrounding the holy city' and 'coming against the camp of the holy ones'.
Such ones of the 'great crowd' are not 'insight of' my Father's throne, dear one. They are BEFORE His throne, which throne IS in heaven... as well as RENDERING SACRED SERVICE IN HIS TEMPLE... day and night. Who but priests, dear one, can 'render sacred service'?
Please, do NOT put your trust in earthling man... or in nobles... or in 'false christs' who CLAIM to be the 'truth', in opposition to whom my Lord SAID is the Truth (John 14:6)... whose vocation it is to 'misled if possible, even the chosen ones.' They are imposters who have a FORM of 'godly devotion'... but 'prove false to its power'.
How so? Because TRUE godly devotion teaches love and forgiveness and freedom and mercy. It does NOT teach hatred and familial separation and judgment and condemnation. Indeed, as my Lord said, "STOP judging, for with same judgment that YOU are judging, you WILL be judged." Yet, the WTBTS, with its false christs and adulterous 'anointed', teach hatred everyday. Rather than following the admonition of my Lord to LOVE [their] enemies, such ones preach, teach and spread hated for any who are not 'of [their] sort'. Rather than listen to the voice of my Lord (John 10:1-6, 27), they instead follow Paul, a sinner in the same manner as all men. They have chosen, in opposition to my Lord's admonition (Matthew 23:10) and in imitation of my ancient Israelite ancestors... kings and leaders for themselves. To their own detriment, and domination to their own injury. And, as spoken by the Prophet Jeremiah, they are LOVING it.
If you have ears to hear, then, dear Yrs2long, I beg of you... LISTEN TO THE SPIRIT... and listen to the voice of my Lord... and do NOT put your trust in earthling man, to whom NO salvation belongs.
Again, I bid you peace and I am,
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
hi gang,.
let me qualify this post before my usual detractors have a chance to blast me.
i already know that the great majority here do not believe in the one, true god.
Ah, yes, Rex, I 'see'... one would 'need' the Bible to 'test the inspired expression', yes? Okay, I will give you that (although I think it is 'scripture' and not the Bible by which ones makes such 'test', but, again, okay...)
But why the need to TEACH the Bible? Why not teach Christ... and holy spirit and, if NECESSARY due to an absence of witness by the spirit, or a lack of faith, THEN check the inspired expression out? I mean, by 'teaching the Bible', are we not putting the cart before the horse?
Again, just asking, and I remain,
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
dont know if anyone pointed this thread out already or not but its pretty fascinating.
the incredible number of posts in a short time in what is normally a pretty slow forum shows how difficult a situation this for witnesses.
there are so many interesting and wacky comments being made there, you'll just have to read it for yourself.. http://www.witnessesonline.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/witnessesonline/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000092.
Dearest Six... peace to you... and...
How do people like Shelby and Ariel stay in it for so long? I mean, I know you two (if your reading ) will be out eventually, my dear sisters, but why are you clinging to that icky org like a frightened baby?
Forgive me if I am in error, but are you speaking of ME? Inquiring minds want to know...
A slave of Christ,
SJ
hi gang,.
let me qualify this post before my usual detractors have a chance to blast me.
i already know that the great majority here do not believe in the one, true god.
Dearest Rex... peace to you... and I'm sorry but:
... why do you advocate against 'gathering together' for a common cause?
Er? Me, "advocate against 'gathering together' for a common cause"? Am I not a poster on jw.com? Do we not 'gather' here... for a 'common cause'? How in the world did you get that out of my question as to why a 'christian' (i.e., someone supposedly anointed with holy spirit that is SUPPOSE to 'teach [us] all things', would need to be 'taught'... the Bible? I truly don't understand. Truly.
Are all Christians at the same level of understanding?
Most assuredly not. In fact, not all walk in the same level of 'freedom'. However, as a 'christian', am I not under obligation to LOVE my brother? And would directing him BACK to the Law written on stone tablets and reliance on the law written in delible ink, thus RE-enslaving him... rather than leading him to LIFE (John 14:6) and directing him to rely instead on the law written on his HEART, which law, holy spirit UNLOCKS, thus setting him FREE... be a true demonstration of that love?
Why indeed would the Holy Spirit NOT use more mature Christians to disciple new Christians?
The holy spirit would INDEED use such. But I did not know we were speaking of using 'mature' christians, as much as we were speaking of such 'mature' christians directing 'new' christians BACK to the law written on stone tablets, rather than to my Lord's and HIS voice... which is what we're SUPPOSED to listen to... and 'teach' others to listen to. Yes?
Shelby, not everyone has the direct conduit to God that you claim to have.
Uh, that's not entirely true. EVERYONE has the CAPABILITY to approach God by means of the SAME 'conduit' as I: His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. Not everyone chooses to USE that 'conduit', however, because not everyone KNOWS of it... or has been TAUGHT about it. And that is my point: rather than teaching the BIBLE as such 'conduit', are we not to teach my LORD as 'the Way' to approach God? Did he not say that NO ONE comes to God 'except through [him]'? Did he not say that if you knew HIM... you would know God and that if you saw HIM... you have seen God? Where, then, is the need for the Bible?
That's all I'm asking...
Again, I bid you peace.
YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
hi gang,.
let me qualify this post before my usual detractors have a chance to blast me.
i already know that the great majority here do not believe in the one, true god.
Dearest Rex... may you have peace... and may I ask a question, please? Without 'blasting' you. Thank you.
You said:
"... this is simply information on actually teaching the Bible to Christians and others."
My question is (actually 'are'):
If a 'christian' is one who has been anointed and chosen by means of holy spirit (that is, after all, what the word 'christian' means, yes?), and holy spirit is to teach us ('christians') ALL things... why would we ('christians') need to have the Bible taught to us or teach the Bible to other 'christians' at all?
I mean, okay, I can see perhaps teaching it to 'others' (well, not really; I mean, I can see using it to build their faith and lead them to Christ, but once they've come to know HIM and received holy spirit... well...), but in light of my Lord's words at John 5:39, 40, I can't seem to 'get the sense' of what you are saying.
Can you help me out, please? Thank you.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
