Posts by AGuest

46

Ever wonder this about the annointed?

by free2beme in

jw
friends

so in the congregation you had those wine and bread loving annointed people?

but i ask, why did the men that were annointed not immediately appointed as an elder, and then a circuit overseer and so on up the ranks.

it would seem to me, that if god saw them fit to rule in heaven.

AGuest

Because the WTBTS is not a safe haven for the anointed, dear F2BM (peace to you!): it's purpose is to flush such ones out and kill them, spiritually, if they can (Matthew 24:24). They start by denying folks the right to partake, then the right to declare their "hope." What they want... and teach these to observe is at least three things in OPPOSITE to what Christ said:

1. That only a few can/should partake... when Christ said ANYONE could... and all SHOULD (John 6:48-53)

2. That they should HIDE their lights "under baskets"... rather than placing them out on table to shine before ALL men; and

3. That Christ is not the Holy Spirit... nor does he speak to those who belong to him (which is why some of you can't fathom that he does; you were never told the TRUTH about that... because those who claim to know, who SHOULD know... don't - and so how can they tell you?)

Imagine if the WTBTS were actually led by anointed people. NOT people merely CLAIMING an anointing... but those actually received the promised holy spirit. Imagine if ANY "christian" religion was so led. "Christianity" would be an entirely different institution.

Again, peace to you!

A doulos of Christ,

SA

31

Animals demonized

by free2beme in

jw
friends

just wondering, do christians feel animals can be demonized?

i wonder, as i have some questions about demonized.

does the demon become the person, and send the person packing to some sort of waiting room?

AGuest

What, you've never seen "The Thing"? "Fallen"? Girl, you need to get out more. See a movie... or two.

A doulos of Christ,

SA, wondering why a demon would even want to possess a beast on its own, given the limitations of the vessels of beasts (can't talk, no thumbs... well, some can bite... but what purpose would that serve?). Yet, some folks apparently DO think that excessive howling at the moon is "cool", so that might be a reason, at least for occupying wolves...

50

Revelation 14:3 Who sings the new song???????

by label licker in

in society's revelation book chapter 29 verse 10 on page 201 states the 24 elders are 144,000 and all are singing the same song, how can that be?

in their bible the only ones that can master that song is the 144,000. not the four living creatures nor the elders.

this 144,000 group is standing before the 24 elders.

AGuest

I would love to discuss things with Shelby.

No, you wouldn't. Discussing is a two-way process. You would love to talk about only what YOU want to talk about... and have me respond as YOU wish me to. Not going to happen.

Since I do not believe Christ is talking to you in the literal sense, it is pointless.

Yet, you keep trying to "discuss." And, well, this is how it keeps going. You don't believe me. I get that. I accept that. I have no problem with that. So, why do you keep trying to "discuss"? Because you think you're going to change something? Change me? Change what I hear? Change that I admit I hear? You're going to be trying for the rest of your life, then.

As I stated earlier, I see no reason to analyze scripture in every little detail and make up answers.

Unfortunately, this is neither your thread... or one you can control. So, that YOU see no reason is irrelevant. That you SEE no reason, yet keep interjecting into the discussion... is irrational.

I would rather focus on people and ask human questions.

Then by ALL means... start a thread and do that. THIS thread isn't about that.

This nitpicking over scripture, verse by verse, but not in any particular context, is the hallmark of the WT.

Start a thread on that. But you're off-topic here.

I believe it stops us from seeing greater themes.

Start a thread on THAT. But you're still off-topic.

One need not choose worldly knowledge or the Bible. They are not polar opposites.

Same advice. Start a thread about what you ARE interested... and invite whoever you wish there to discuss such with you. THIS thread, though, is about various aspects of the Revelation. Either stay on-topic and discuss that... or remain silent and observe. Otherwise, you are doing nothing more than attempting to derail the thread. Why? Why is it SO concerning to you that you would do that to someone else's thread?

You're not being rational. At all. Regardless of what you think of ME, why are you intentionally trying to derail this OP's thread? Start your OWN thread and discuss what YOU think, don't think, like, don't like, believe, don't believe. About the Revelation, the song, John, Tommy, Tucker, and whatever candy sucker you wish to. But really, grow up and stop whining like an infant that some folks are talking about things you don't understand and can't comprehend and so don't want them talking about but want them to stop. It's so... WT-ish. And puerile.

And truly an insult to your education. I can't imagine that you would be walking through the student union and, while passing by a table where some other students are discussing a matter, stop and keep jumping in to let them know that you don't like one of them, don't like what s/he is saying, don't believe them... and want them to stop talking about. I would wager than everyone at the table would look at your, curiously, as if wondering WHY you are there... and aren't moving on. At least one of them would probably speak up and suggest you mind your own business. That one would probably be me.

A doulos of Christ,

SA

109

San Francisco or Bay Area Members?

by nibbled in

jw
friends

i did a search and came up with some posts related to san francisco, but i couldn't figure out how to find more recent onesthey were from nearly a dozen years ago!

i was wondering if anyone lives around sf, as well as if anyone is around my age?

i'm early 30's.

AGuest

Double post. Pardon.

109

San Francisco or Bay Area Members?

by nibbled in

jw
friends

i did a search and came up with some posts related to san francisco, but i couldn't figure out how to find more recent onesthey were from nearly a dozen years ago!

i was wondering if anyone lives around sf, as well as if anyone is around my age?

i'm early 30's.

AGuest

So happy to give you laugh! :)

So happy to make YOU happy! LOLOLOL!

So I'll say, praise Yah. You know "J" didn't exist until a few (hundred) years ago?

I did know that English letter "J" did not exist in the Greek (where the letter "I" was used to represent the "j" sound, but did not have the little foot). My understanding is that the Hebrew yodh is a "j", however... representing the "/j/" sound, which is pronounced in English as a "y".

Since the name of the MOST Holy One of Israel is JaHVeH (and not "JeHoVaH"), JAH is actually more accurate, although PRONOUNCED as "Yah." This might help you see what I mean:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yodh

And I was wondering if you'd ever thought about the letters of the original Tetragrammaton before anyone did anything other than transliterate it. I ask because you seem so astute.

I have... and (smile) thank you... and sorry? (smile, again)

One day it dawned on me that was a bunch of crock that "nobody knows how to pronounce the divine name".

I agree!!!

Before I let you in on the well kept secret perpetuated by those who were hardened so as not to be able to see nor hear, I'll let you see what you find on your own in this Hebrew game of hang man. I'll also offer clues, if you'd like! :)

Well, I'm not sure how much of a game I can give you. I know the name of the MOST High God, the MOST Holy One of Israel to be JAH... of Armies. Or JAH'VEH. Which means "JAH Who Breathes (Armies [of spirit beings]) Into Existence." Many had His name as part of theirs'. For example:

Eli'Jah, which means "My God... is JAH."

Abi'Jah, which means "My Father... is JAH."

Jah'El (Joel), which means "JAH is God."

Mischa'El (Michael), which means "Chosen of JAH."

Ben'Jah'Min, which means "Son of [a man of] JAH."

Or my Lord, JAH eShua (Yeheshua, YeHoShua... or, in English, Joshua), which means "JAH is Salvation/Salvation of JAH".

Or, say, Yere'mi'JAH... Nehe'mi'JAH... Isa'i'JAH... Ze'chari'JAH... Ze'phani'JAH... etc.

Then, there's words like "hallel u JAH, which means "Praise you, JAH."

Tag. You're "it."

Peace!

YOUR servant and a doulos of Christ,

SA

50

Revelation 14:3 Who sings the new song???????

by label licker in

in society's revelation book chapter 29 verse 10 on page 201 states the 24 elders are 144,000 and all are singing the same song, how can that be?

in their bible the only ones that can master that song is the 144,000. not the four living creatures nor the elders.

this 144,000 group is standing before the 24 elders.

AGuest

Um, so another point that I suppose I didn't make as clear as I could have, I'm not certain that the song of Moses (15:3) is the same as the new song (14:3)—Lars raised the song of Moses and I was pointing out that the song of Moses isn't new (and not the same song nor same singers). Also the original language does indicate a new song (14:3) for the 144,000 despite the "as if" rendered by some translations.

I hear you, dear Nibbled (peace to you!). It IS a new song for the 144,000... but not for Israel. ALL of Israel SHOULD have known it and sang it (i.e., had it in their hearts), but their adulterous ways caused them to forget/leave off from it. When the 144,000 sing it, THEY are singing it new for THEM... but it is not a new song. They are SINGING it... as IF it were a new song.

The new song of the 144k (14:3) is clearly 144k only.

Yes. As these are solely from among the sons of Israel; the great multitude is not, at least not solely.

The great multitude who also sing multiple times in heaven and compose the "all nations" part of the "bought" to be "priests and kings", which using the descriptive of (15:3) the singers would recall for us those of Rev 20:4,5.

I am not sure what you mean here. Along with the 144,000... those of the great multitude made up those of Revelation 20:4, 5.

We know that the 144k all die in service (lmk if I should clarify that. It's regarding drinking bridal cup...) and we know that not all will be dead who go to heaven but some will be transformed in a twinkle.

That latter part is true; however, not all of the 144k die in service. Those who belonged to Christ but have died by the time he returns are resurrected, at the same time as those who belonged to him but have NOT died are transformed.

I personally feel this scripture clarifies Rev 20:4,5, where all those in heaven are described with the first resurrection.

YES! It does. But it involves both those of Israel (the 144,000)... AND those of the great crowd. These are ONE flock to Christ, a kingship and royal priesthood. The first (144k) are those from Israel who are sealed in order to protect the promise made to Abraham. The others are from EVERY nation, tribe, etc., who replace UNFAITHFUL Israel (who were SUPPOSED to make up the people for a special possession and holy nation)... in God's kingdom. Romans 11:25

I'm on my iPhone so I'll wait to respond to Band's post. Band, just know I am not religious, not in association with JW/WT (not DF/DA though), and believe that the scriptures are the Word of God, and the "bible" is the most fascinating book I've ever read.

I agree the Bible is fascinating, but it's not the Word of God, dear one. God only has one Word, which some parts of the Bible point TO:

John 1:1, 14

John 8:32, 36

John 14:6; 17:17; Hebrews 13:12

Revelation 19:15

John 5:39, 40; 7:37, 38

AGuest, where did you get your info you wrote in that post?? That's all news to me.

I received it from the One who called and chose me, dear one, and granted me holy spirit (John 20:22, 23; Acts 2:1-4, 17, 18), the spirit of truth, by means of which I am led by that One into ALL truth (John 14:26; 16:13-15). He is the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17), JAHESHUA (probably known to you as "Jesus", a Greek misrendering), the Son and Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah, which you probably state as "Messiah"). JAH, is JaHVeH (which you've probably seen as "YHWH")... the MOST High God and MOST Holy One of Israel (Psalm 68:4; Proverbs 9:10; 30:3; Luke 8:28; Acts 16:17; Hebrews 7:1).

I listen to that One's voice, dear Nibbled... and by that let HIM lead me (John 10:1-5, 27; Matthew 17:51 John 2:26-28).

I hope that helps.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a doulos (slave) of Christ (Acts 2:18; Romans 7:6; Revelation 19:10; 22:9),

SA

109

San Francisco or Bay Area Members?

by nibbled in

jw
friends

i did a search and came up with some posts related to san francisco, but i couldn't figure out how to find more recent onesthey were from nearly a dozen years ago!

i was wondering if anyone lives around sf, as well as if anyone is around my age?

i'm early 30's.

AGuest

AGuest not sure I need a mom, but thanks drawing the lines clearly! :)

LOLOLOL! No worries, dear Nibbled (peace to you!) - it was meant as a joke.

I'll check out that link.

Cool-ness!

What "choice" are you referring to? I was chosen, and accepted the invitiation.

The choice between belief in God... and not, dear one. If you mean chosen/accepted as I think you do (I couldn't find where you clarified), then... praise JAH... and WELCOME! If not... mmmmmm... well, praise JAH and welcome, anyway! LOLOLOL!

... Side note, hilarious. I'm at work, someone just walked into my area and the area is quiet. He said "where is everyone today?" and as he walked away he said "Did we have the rapture and no one told me?" So very out of the blue! I busted out laughing. I needed that.

I'm thinking you DID mean what I thought you did! Feel free to pay other like ones a visit on the site I linked.

Peace!

YOUR servant and a doulos of Christ,

SA

50

Revelation 14:3 Who sings the new song???????

by label licker in

in society's revelation book chapter 29 verse 10 on page 201 states the 24 elders are 144,000 and all are singing the same song, how can that be?

in their bible the only ones that can master that song is the 144,000. not the four living creatures nor the elders.

this 144,000 group is standing before the 24 elders.

AGuest

I'm not afraid to respond to... and so don't skirt... serious and intelligent questions directed at me. I may not know the answers... but I know from Whom to get them. Which is no work at all, actually. I just ask... listen... and then put faith in what he tells me. Not hard, at all. You should try it.

A doulos of Christ,

SA

75

The 24 Elders in Revelation are NOT the anointed......

by EndofMysteries in

today i just thought of this.

i had written a thread about the false teaching of the anointed being resurrected already.

anyway, the wt assumes the 24 elders in revelation are the 144,000, and the assumption is merely because both sit on thrones.

AGuest

According to Rev 11:15,16 the 24 elders could not be humans [Abraham, Noah, Moses, etc] from the Earth.

Perhaps I'm missing something, dear NE (again, peace to you!). Those verses state:

"Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God..."

I don't see anything there that precludes them from having been bought from the earth. What am I missing, dear one?

The Book of Enoch mentions at least 7 or 8 Archangels by name.

Yes, I understand. But that is a mistransliteration... because of the "rank" of these. They are chiefs... princes, actually... which means they are over "principalities," or territories... not that they are rulers (Daniel 10:13; Ezekiel 28:14). They are "cherubs." TWO of these "cherubs"... or chiefs... were assigned to protect the "cover" of the "Ark". They are the two HIGHEST cherubs... or angels... and are "of the Ark." Or "arkangels." Unfortunately when rendering the translations from Hebrew to Greek then back to Hebrew... the scribes relied on their own understand, rather than on holy spirit (Jeremiah 8:8). Which is why my Lord condemned THEIR work along with the works of the corrupt priests and lawyers/religious leaders (Pharisees/Sanhedrin), saying "Woe to you... scribes!" to them. What work was he condemning? The Septuagint (LXX) which was the "bible" of his day (since he was condemning the JEWISH scribes, it would not have been perhaps the older Samaritan Pentateuch/Torah).

Many condemned that canon, actually, though... and after some time, the Masoretes undertook to make corrections (which also includes errors, unfortunately, because, again, holy spirit wasn't involved). They didn't literally change the LXX but documented the errors THEY found in the margins. Unfortunately, most modern bibles talk their text from the Septuagint... which hales from the 3rd and 2nd centuries BCE and is the oldest version in existence (save, perhaps, the Samaritan Pentateuch... which they, Samaritans, believe one version, the Abisha Scroll, dates back to 13 years after Israel entered into Canaan with Joshua). The HEBREW parts of the Bible that we have today are translations from Greek BACK to Hebrew... and not the original Hebrew (not even close).

Even so, the common thinking is that there are only 7 or 8 "archangels"... not 24. Are you thinking their may be more? And if so, on what do you base that? Again, not trying to be negative; just trying to understand.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a doulos of Christ,

SA

50

Revelation 14:3 Who sings the new song???????

by label licker in

in society's revelation book chapter 29 verse 10 on page 201 states the 24 elders are 144,000 and all are singing the same song, how can that be?

in their bible the only ones that can master that song is the 144,000. not the four living creatures nor the elders.

this 144,000 group is standing before the 24 elders.

AGuest

It is not an appropriate book to expose to young children.

Nor most adults, obviously, as can be seen by the many books postulating on it (Ecclesiastes 12:12), particularly the WTBTS' "Revelation, It's Grand Climax AtHand!" Book. What a travesty that!

Sadly, the Revelation... well, the visions, etc., IN it... is what got John arrested and imprisoned on Patmos in the first place. During the time he related it to the Apostles, older men, Paul, etc., it was against the law to speak of such things. So he had to tell them in secret. And Paul wasn't able to recount it to others, for fear of being arrested and imprisoned, if not put to death. (2 Corinthians 12:4). BUT... the time came, and John was told to write what he been given many years before, as well as what he being given at the moment, and would be given after that... and send it out to the "7" congregations. Per my Lord, these "7" congregation actually represented ALL of the congregations at the time, but due to the danger John was directed to address as he did... for the safety of those who would receive it; it was done that way to obscure those to whom it was really being sent. In order for these to ACCEPT it, though, as FROM God/Christ... because it was some pretty "different" stuff from what they had heard before, the visions of Ezekiel, Isaiah, Enoch, and others notwithstanding... he had to (1) identify himself, and (2) identify who he received it FROM. The first would prove to his audience that it was FROM Christ himself... and thus by holy spirit... which for some of them would require that it was "Apostle"-approved. These two things would ensure for them that even if what was depicted was STRANGE... it was TRUTH.

And it was FOR those very letters, specifically because of the "revelation" that accompanied them (which things were considered "sorcery" and the like and was against the law)... that John was turned in to the authorities and imprisoned ON Patmos: "wicked men from among [them]" used these letters to turn him in to the authorities. (Revelation 2:9, 15, 20; 3:9)

I say "letters" because they did not originally appear as they do in the Bible canon; John was told to... and did... address separate letters to each of the "7" congregations, which included the "Revelation" - what was stated BEFORE the letters and what was stated after. So, for example, the "congregation in Laodicea" did not get the same "greeting" message from Christ as, say, the "congregation in Thyatira." Indeed, the "congregation in Laodicea" was SEVERAL congregations... those that were exhibiting the traits in the greeting to "them." Same with "Pergamum," "Sardis," "Ephesus" and so on.

And there was good reason for this: love. Had he sent each the information concerning the other, there would have been GREAT division. Because those who were reprimanded would have felt "smarted" by the stinging discipline (Revelation 2:4, 5, 14, 16, 20; 3:3, 15-18)... and perhaps lost their joy... while those who were "commended" (Revelation 2:2, 6, 13, 19, 24; 3:4, 8, 10) might have let it cause them to "lord it over," perhaps even judge the others. So, my Lord followed his own "law" (Matthew 18:15) when he dictated to John what was to go in the GREETING to each "congregation," separately. It presents the way it does NOW because those who compiled the canon merely combined them all into one - why canonize many different letters that all said pretty much the same thing, except as to its address to the pertninent "congregation"?

Unfortunately, some letters had additional dicta/commentary in that, as presented today, seem out of place. For example Revelation 16:15. The TRUTH, though, is that it's not even in the strict ORDER in which John saw the visions... OR wrote of them... in some places. It's in an order that made sense to those who canonized it... which, as a result, DOESN'T make sense in several places. Which is why it is hard to understand and translate... let alone interpret.

Even so, even in accurate order, the last (interpretation) belongs to God... who granted it to Christ... who "opens" it to whomever HE wishes (Luke 24:27, 32, 44, 45), not just anyone who is "peering into" it (1 Peter 1:12). Just as some of the first century Body were allowed to understand things written by the Prophets that even THEY (the Prophets who wrote them - Isaiah 8:14-16; 25:10-12; Daniel 12:4, 9) didn't know... the same has been occurring since.

A doulos of Christ,

SA