and at risk of further appalling and perhaps even traumatizing some here... i must say that i wonder.... do you think this is what hiroshima 'felt' like for those victimized by it?
oh, ummmm... sorry, that's right: "they"... "deserved" it.
forgive me.
Dear TD... may you have peace... and at the risk of sounding... no, BEING... honest... please note the words "it seems to ME" in my response. I believe them to be EQUALLY immoral, because I believe the taking of ANY innocent lives... regardless the number... to be immoral.
Unlike me, however, you may not see them as 'equally' reprehensible. But that could simply be because you and I 'see'... with different 'eyes'.
I bid you peace,
A slave of Christ,
SJ
and at risk of further appalling and perhaps even traumatizing some here... i must say that i wonder.... do you think this is what hiroshima 'felt' like for those victimized by it?
oh, ummmm... sorry, that's right: "they"... "deserved" it.
forgive me.
Well, I guess my comment at this point would be:
Sure, go after Ben Laden. Like they went after Khadafi... and Hussein... and Castro... and the Ayatollah Komenhi.
Let me ask you... and you tell ME:
How 'super' of a superpower ARE you if you can't catch Khadafi, can't hogtie Hussein, can't cutoff Castro, can't annihilate the Ayatollah, can't break Ben Laden... but rather only manage to take out a couple thousand INNOCENT lives? Tell me... how 'super'... are you REALLY?
Do you people REALLY think bombing ANYONE is going to 'get' Ben Laden... or whoever is responsible? Did bombing 'get' Khadafi? Did it 'get' the Ayatollah? Did it 'get' Castro? Did it 'get' Hussein?
Do you really not see the BIG 'picture' here? REALLY?
SIGH! Of course you don't. For in truth... 'blind' people... CAN'T see.
But... I bid you peace... and 'enlightenment'. And hopefully the latter fairly soon. Quick like.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
i would exhort you to first ask... and then listen... to the master's voice on the matter, and if you cannot 'hear'... or exercise faith in what you 'hear'... then go to the 'scriptures'.
for indeed, it is 'written'... in the scriptures.
it is not, however, 'written' in the letters, histories, chronologies and gospels.
Dearest 'MOM... hey, girl... may you have peace and may ALL praise be given to our Father, the Most High God, the Holy One of Israel, JAH OF ARMIES, and all glory to His Son, our Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH.
BigMan... as always... may the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, JAH OF ARMIES, and the peace of His Christ and my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, be upon you, if you so wish it... to time indefinite.
JustAThought... thank you and peace to you, dear one... and you are correct. I did not 'entertain' Julie's first question, as I 'heard' nothing in answer to it, but initially responded to the question she asked in another thread. My bad...
DWilt... peace to you, in Christ.
Tom, Doug, Julie, Cassiline, et al.,.... whatever. I answered what I saw, when I saw it, and when the answer was granted me, and what I did not... UNTIL an answer was granted me. Funny, though... no comment on the answer; rather, more malicious maligning and slander. VERY funny, yes? I mean, for all of your combined 'intelligence', you would THINK one 'a youse would have had SOMETHING to say about the 'truth' my Lord presented.
But... no. Ah, well, I am sure there are 'stones' all OVER this planet. If I am what you SAY I am, what then are YOU to do? I present to you, then, my 'other' cheek and say that all you need do is pick one up... and throw it.
A TRUE servant to the Household of God, Israel, and a TRUE slave of Christ... to time indefinite...
SJ
and at risk of further appalling and perhaps even traumatizing some here... i must say that i wonder.... do you think this is what hiroshima 'felt' like for those victimized by it?
oh, ummmm... sorry, that's right: "they"... "deserved" it.
forgive me.
Two reprehensible situations, but I still fail to see how they can be made to be moral equivalents without a great deal of generalization.
At risk of sounding 'haughty and judgmental', dear TD (and may you have peace, may I say that it seems to ME that the fact that they are BOTH... equally IMMORAL... would make them... 'moral EQUIVALENTS'. Wouldn't you agree?
Again, peace to you.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
i would exhort you to first ask... and then listen... to the master's voice on the matter, and if you cannot 'hear'... or exercise faith in what you 'hear'... then go to the 'scriptures'.
for indeed, it is 'written'... in the scriptures.
it is not, however, 'written' in the letters, histories, chronologies and gospels.
Dearest Okidok... and BigMan... may the undeserved kindness and peace of my God and Father, JAH OF ARMIES, and the peace of His Christ, my Lord, be upon you both... if you so wish it... to time indefinite.
Tom... so that I do not use my 'mouth' to both 'bless AND curse', as it appears you find no problem doing... I will 'refrain' from responding to you at this point. For in truth, you said nothing worth responding to, anyway.
Dearest Julie... may you have peace... and may you know and understand that in ALL truth... I had not yet received an answer until earlier today. Seriously. And so until then, I didn't even entertain your question. But, my Lord has condescended to make a reply. Thus, the word of my Lord to you, in answer to your question is:
It depends. On what? On whether you had 'license' to kill such individual in such a way... or whether you did not. If you did, which means you were obeying my Father... the ONLY One who can GRANT such 'license'... for ALL life belongs to HIM and only HE is the One who can grant it to be taken away (Job 1:12; 2:6)... (even by Death, for even Death is subject to Him)... then you would have no 'bloodguilt'. And yes, you would be considered 'blessed among women,' not only for having the courage to commit the act, but for your FAITH (and resultant obedience) in carrying it out. And you would be 'without sin', for faith is a fruit of my Father's spirit... and 'against such things, there is NO law.'
IF, however, you chose to take it upon yourself, and take such a life... WITHOUT 'license'... and indeed, even more, if such life was 'innocent'... no... you would not be 'blessed among women,' for you took... what was not yours to take. You would then be 'with' sin... and require forgiveness. Which could be granted, if you asked for it out of a pure motive, such motive being true contriteness and regret for your 'error'.
And granting of such forgiveness would depend on whether or not your heart... was 'pure'. If it was not, then no forgiveness could be granted, for you acted out of MALICE and HATRED... and willfully so. The 'ransom', then, would possess no 'value' by means of YOUR act... and YOUR 'unclean' heart... and thus, would not 'cover' you.
So do not be misled: the undeserved kindness and mercy of my Father is NOT to be taken lightly. It is not as if we can use it as an EXCUSE for 'loose conduct', and think that we can do what we want and be forgiven... automatically. It is weakness of the flesh that is covered, not deliberate sin born of an underestimation of the 'value' of my Lord's sacrifice. Indeed, the sacrifice provided by my Lord will 'cover' ANY sin, save blasphemy against the holy spirit... as long as such 'sin' is not HIDDEN, and... as long NO malice or hatred was involved.
If it was the result of an act of love, however, like saving a loved one perhaps... then it is 'covered'... for love 'covers a multitude of transgressions' AND as another 'fruit' of my Father's spirit... there is no 'law'... against love. That is the very reason why my Father could kill those who persecuted Israel. For He LOVED Israel and, as He said: "He that is touching YOU... is touching MY eyeball."
I, myself, have spoken it to you, just as I have heard it from my Lord, the Son of God, JAHESHUA MISHCAJAH, by means of holy spirit.
I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
i would exhort you to first ask... and then listen... to the master's voice on the matter, and if you cannot 'hear'... or exercise faith in what you 'hear'... then go to the 'scriptures'.
for indeed, it is 'written'... in the scriptures.
it is not, however, 'written' in the letters, histories, chronologies and gospels.
Dearest Julie... may you have peace... and dear one, I answered the question. In truth... and in quite some detail. If you did not 'hear' and/or 'get the sense of it'... I am not sure how to proceed from here. Perhaps you can review what I was given to share... and tell me SPECIFICALLY what you did not understand. Okay? Okay. And, again, peace to you.
DWilt... peace to you, too... and you've always been 'okay' in MY 'book'. It is my wish that you... and everyone else here... is also named in my Lord's book as well. And he hasn't let me down yet, so...
SIGH! Tom... Tally. I have a story to tell you. It is about my brother and I, one who I raised from a toddler. He was my life... for many years... and I his. At one point, however, our relationship changed. What happened? After about six years in the Navy, the brother that I had acquaintance with was no longer the brother that I had known for 20-some years. I don't know what happened to him, but after being ordered into military service (versus prison, for gang affiliation, etc.), he 'changed'. He drank a lot more, which led to him being a bit more... ummmmm, 'angry'. I watched someone go from being gentle as a lamb, to angry, abusive and violent. But NEVER toward me. Until one day. (And no, of course I don't blame it all on the Navy; he was, after all, gang affiliated.)
On this day, I showed up at his door to get some money owed me by his 'fiancee'. I had two small children to feed and needed the money for food. Well, you know how it goes when people owe you money and don't want to pay... I had to be the 'bad guy'... putting them in a 'bad' situation. They didn't have it, and I... 'should [have been] more understanding.'
Well, things got out of hand, Tom. REALLY out of hand. QUITE out of hand... until at some point (and I TRULY don't remember how we 'got' here...), I was staring down the barrel of a .357 Magnum. Yup. Scared the HELL out of me. But... this was my brother. And, while I did believe he was going to shoot me... I was NOT going to let HIM... go out like that. Why? Because I loved him... as much, if not more... than I loved myself.
So, what? So, for all of your hatred and maligning of me, I have not done so to you. I have not judged you or even considered to judge you, one way or another. But... for all we DON'T have in common, we DO have one thing in common: dealing with irrational people, to the point of it meaning our lives.
My point, Tom? That we have been the pretty much the same situation (oh, certainly, there was 'more to it', but for the sake of brevity, I haven't gone into it...). So, I KNOW from where I speak when I say... STOP judging me... for I have NOT... judged you.
May you have ears to hear... and may you accept the love and peace I ALWAYS offer you.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
and at risk of further appalling and perhaps even traumatizing some here... i must say that i wonder.... do you think this is what hiroshima 'felt' like for those victimized by it?
oh, ummmm... sorry, that's right: "they"... "deserved" it.
forgive me.
I'm sorry, dearest larc... I did not mean to overlook you. May you have peace.
Since they felt 'justified' in 'returning evil for evil', the U.S. SHOULD have gone after those who perpetrated the crimes against them... and not those who didn't.
You had to ask? Well, yeah, I guess you did.
Peace.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
and at risk of further appalling and perhaps even traumatizing some here... i must say that i wonder.... do you think this is what hiroshima 'felt' like for those victimized by it?
oh, ummmm... sorry, that's right: "they"... "deserved" it.
forgive me.
Okay, let me clarify with regard to my PERSONAL position:
My 'brothers'...
Are not all black.
Are not all women.
Are not all American.
Are not all old.
Are not all young.
Do no all live on US soil.
Yada, yada, yada...
I am sorry, but my vision... and my 'sight'... is not limited to the soil of the U.S. of A. Indeed, it is not even limited to this 'realm'. I do not 'see' peripherally. Every time a car bomb goes off somewhere, every time a child is molested somewhere, every time a drive-by shooting takes place... somewhere... every time a missle is deployed and detonated... somewhere... every time a family is gunned down... somewhere... every time a building of innocent people is blown up... somewhere... ANYWHERE... in this 'realm'... I feel it. I have even been told by some, when watching movies of heinous acts, that I perhaps have no 'feeling', because I do not react emotionally. To MOVIES. Because I can 'feel' in the REAL world... such that it is.
In truth, I feel almost every last one. From the four African children age 4 to 11 left to fend for themselves after losing two sets of parents to AIDS (28,000,000 people are dying, dear ones... and I FEEL that...), to the babies shown in the Oklahoma bombing, to the little boy and his father gunned down by an Israeli soldier while hiding behind a barrel, to the 255 firefighters, 400+ airline passengers and COUNTLESS others who lost their lives Tuesday. To the 6 million of the Holocaust... to the 250,000 of Hiroshima. I FEEL it.
So, if I sound haughty... and judgmental... it is not my intention, nor is it directed at any one side of the coin. What YOU perceive as haughtiness, to ME... is a bearing of pain. For the loss of life. Life, dear ones... is life. And there is NO justification for 'earthling' man, on his own, taking life. Whether on this country's soil... or another.
I am not anti-American. By place of birth, I AM an "American", and grateful to BE such, for I do not have to suffer a fraction of the atrocities my brothers... and many others... elsewhere do. But just because my national 'leaders' may be for war, just as THEIR national leaders may be for it, their leaders dropping a bomb on me is NO more justified than my leaders dropping one on their innocent.
I am sorry that I cannot get behind the 'patriotism' that many feel at this time. But is only because my 'world'... expands far, FAR past the shores of the United States.
The WTC disaster was a devastating atrocity. Hiroshima... was a devastating atrocity. No matter WHAT the 'justification'. Our 'morality' is not necessarily someone ELSE's 'morality'. The GOVERNMENT of Japan warred against 'us'; NOT the citizens of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Just like the GOVERNMENT (by reason of condoning such) of those responsible for Tuesday's disaster is 'warring' with the GOVERNMENT of the United, and NOT the citizens that were slaughtered. But... since World War I, since battles are no longer fought on the battle fields, it's ALWAYS the citizens that are slaughtered, isn't it?
Bush ain't going nowhere; Ben Laden ain't going nowhere. Did Hassan? Khadafi? Reagan? The Emperor of Japan? Since when do the 'higher' ups of EITHER side 'pay the price'? Not since such ones began sitting in their ivory towers... and hiding behind the innocent. And they do that HERE... as well as THERE.
For those who consider themselves 'christian' (and yes, this applies because for all intents and purposes, the U.S. towts itself as a 'christian' county... yes?), war is justified, dear ones... ONLY with those who wish to 'die by the sword'. It is not, however, with those who have no personal 'interest' in the matter. That... is the slaughter of 'innocent' blood... and that... is not 'justified'.
And if you wish to take this back to ancient Israel, we can. Most certainly. But in another thread.
As always, I bid you peace.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
and at risk of further appalling and perhaps even traumatizing some here... i must say that i wonder.... do you think this is what hiroshima 'felt' like for those victimized by it?
oh, ummmm... sorry, that's right: "they"... "deserved" it.
forgive me.
Actually, TD... and may you have peace... I was. "Drawing a moral comparison." May I ask... have you read Herodotus? Something to think about, yes?
Peace to you.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
and at risk of further appalling and perhaps even traumatizing some here... i must say that i wonder.... do you think this is what hiroshima 'felt' like for those victimized by it?
oh, ummmm... sorry, that's right: "they"... "deserved" it.
forgive me.
What the...???!!! BWWWAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!
I'm sorry... I apologize. Truly.
Apparently, O-Great-COMF-Who-Knows-SO-Much-That-You-Even-Know- Shelby's-Intent... NOT... you misunderstood me. My words... as well as my 'tone'.
And I think that rather than even try to explain it to you... yet... I will let you think on just how you did that. Careful, though: a guys only got so many braincells to 'burn'. And I already smell 'smoke'.
Oh, and it WAS my thread to begin with, wasn't it? So, as you requested... be gone! (Waving hand... )
A slave of Christ,
SJ
