Hiya Shelby--
Hey, girl… and may you have peace.
I must tell you that I find your line of reasoning incredibly disturbing.
Yeah, we discussed that in the 'other' thread. About how you are frightened… and why.
I do not intend to insult you or anyone else…
Now, how am I supposed to take THAT? As truth? But then, have you actually shown otherwise? So… help me out here… Nevermind. I guess I know that you do not INTEND to… You might want to check your 'intentions', however.
but this I must say: It is zealots like you that cause me to be firm in my resolve to NEVER let religion into things secular.
Call me what you will, Jules… but I abhor 'religion'. Most anyone here can tell you that. And I think I addressed the 'zealot' tendency in the 'other' thread. Better DUCK, girl!
I will fight such until my last breath.
Most certainly. Defend what you believe… with your life. Just don't hypocritically try to prohibit others, including me… from doing the same. Deal?
With that said, let us move on.
Lord, girl, yes. Let's.
Oh, and if you reply I would appreciate it if you comment on what *I* say, not on your on thoughts that I include. I realize this is a handy way to avoid addressing my comments but it is redundant
I think that is your view and your assessment… and I don't agree with it. But… I will try to be careful.
You now quote me, and then respond:
Ummmmm, could you show me where I said that????
At risk of being called a 'liar', may I say that the statement was purely rhetorical? But I can 'see' how you wouldn't have seen that.
I do not think war is a good thing and am sickened by all the things you mention here.
I don't think it's a 'good' thing, either, Jules. Truly, I don't. But if the truth makes you sick…
Do not presume to put words in my mouth Shelby.
Again, it was rhetorical… but I will come back to this in a sec. Moving on…
While I am not a true pacifist
So, what… you're a 'false' one?
I have a strong disdain for violence of any kind.
As do I.
I should think God, who one would presume is more enlightened than mere-mortal-me, would feel even more strongly about his children killing each other.
Am I to assume you believe there IS a God? I think we need to establish that, first. Because, if you DO, may I ask how it is that you feel 'righteous' in presuming ANYTHING about Him? Including how He feels about ANYTHING? But, for the sake of … debate… let's say you don't believe. Then if He doesn't exist, He couldn't have anything to do with any of it ANYWAY. Yes?
I will tell you the truth: He DOES exist… and He HATES it. But… it is what man WANTED… and ASKED for. Kings… to rule over them. And they got what they asked for. Funny, you all don't blame the kings… but blame God. Funny.
According to you though he likes it.
Ah, yes, back to that previous 'issue'. Were you not the VERY lady who, just some seconds ago, asked ME to not put words in YOUR mouth? You MUST, then, show me were I said God 'likes' it. You must. Otherwise, that makes your hypocrisy 'score' a whopping THREE.
You then quote me again… with regard to one man being killed by one woman… and respond:
Yeah, murder, plain and simple. How enlightened and holy!!!
May I kindly remind YOU that Sisera ran up in JAEL's tent? She did not go looking for him. And remember, she had NO foreknowledge of what she was to do. "Murder", dear one, suggest and requires premeditation and no indicated threat. Even in THIS time and place. If a man who was MY enemy ran up in MY tent… who's to say what I would have done? Hopefully, I would have the mind of Christ, but in truth, it all depends on just who all he was a 'threat' to. Certainly, as a 'frightened mommy', YOU can see that. Yes?
You then quote me again, and respond:
I see. There are countless examples in the bible of innocents being killed (i.e. the wives, children and livestock of Daniels accusers). What a barbaric, homicidal maniac your god is.
From you 'view', perhaps. I think it all depends on what is meant by the word 'innocent'. Because who YOU think to be innocent may not necessarily be whom my FATHER thinks to be innocent. Do you think the people who caused the WTC disaster 'innocent'? Are there people, though, who do? Do you think the people who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima innocent? Are there people, though, who do?
Take a breath, Jules, honey... and put it in proper perspective…
Then you refer to our little 'exchange', and state:
Shelby, you are so wrong. I don't hate anyone.
May I suggest you go back and read some of your posts to me? And then see if you can still say that with a straight face. You might want to review the definition of 'hate', first, before you do.
I do hate violence and injustice but there is not a soul on this planet that I hate.
See above… and check your definitions.
I don't hate god either, I just don't think the bible has anything to do with God.
Well, I am not so sure about your first statement. Considering some of what you have said, what do you think HE would think? As regards your second statement, it doesn't, to the degree MOST people think. But I have NEVER said it has. In fact, many here will TELL you that it is BECAUSE of the Bible's fallacy… that I have learned simply to listen to my Lord, when HE speaks. I do not rely on the 'stone tablets' and 'law written in ink'. Stick around, Jules, and you will find that out.
So it seems it is you who is in error (again).
Perhaps. But I don’t think so; at least, not in this.
You condensended to say: Save your pity, child. I am quite sure there are many more than I who 'deserve' it.
I did say that. I confess.
First of all Shelby I am no child. I am 38 years old and don't take kindly to being addressed as "child", especially by the likes of you.
The "likes" of me. Sigh! I am a black woman, dear one. And perhaps you didn't know that. It was a 'term of endearment'. Maybe I should have written it, 'chile'. Drat! that 'whitebread' education!
You quote me further, with regard to someone threatening the life of our children, and respond:
I am with you there Shelby. I pity the person who tries to hurt either of my beloved children.
So, what… you might… ummmm… 'murder' someone in this case? You?
They are far and away the greatest objects of my affection and I teach them only love. I also teach them how barbaric hate and violence of ANY kind is (even biblical, "righteous" hate and violence)
And you are to be commended for that, truly. I have taught mine the same. And in 24 and 19 years, my daughter has had only ONE altercation… and my son… none. And like I said, we're black. THAT… is rare.
You said: God... does not speak to me.
Actually, Julie, I think I acknowledged Him speaking at least once. I did, yes?
You then quote me again, regarding what took place and who spoke to me… and respond
Well Shelby you can't have it both ways. You make all these claims and then deny those claims. "Define 'is'" comes to mind. How slippery of you.
You know, Jules, I was trying to figure out just what the HECK you were referring to, and then my Lord says to me, "You know, SHE thinks because the Father and I are 'one' that we are the same individual, and that in one instance you are saying God does not speak to you, but are turning around and saying you heard such and so from me."
Well, THAT explains it! Julie, my Father… God… JAH OF ARMIES… and my Lord… His SON… JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH… are NOT the same individual. By NO means. My Father, JAH, has spoken to me, I think, on two occasions. The first one I remember VERY clearly and have posted it here on jw.com… somewhere. It was when He 'sent' His Son to me. At that time, I heard BOTH voices. Only once since then, I think, have I heard both voices, but I can't remember the event. I only remember it, because I was SHOCKED, because the Father does not normally speak. He has one that speaks FOR Him, His Son, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, the One of whom He said: "This is my Son; listen… to HIM."
I can see I am wasting my time even trying to reason with you.
You can 'see' that already? Then why did you bother? I mean, isn't your time precious? Mine is, and there are many folks who WANT me to share, so I don't particularly like wasting time on those who don't.
You are OK with "righteous", "holy" violence
Okay with it? I think my phrase was (a la Chris Rock)… "while I don't AGREE with it, I understand it." I did say that, yes?
which makes you no better than those Islamic Militant zealot bastards.
But… you don't 'hate' anybody, right, Jules? Julie, one of the SWEETEST men I know is a Muslim. And he is also one of the gentlest. He would never DREAM of engaging in such conduct. But even so, I don't think the 'bastards' that you refer to are any more reprehensible than the ones from THIS country who sell arms to keep conflicts going around the world, arms that kill innocent women and children EVERY day… for the sake of oil… and world domination. Perspective, honey. Yours seems to be a bit… clouded. Maybe it's all that non-hatred you got going on.
And you obviously feel that methods of deception are OK too.
Uh, oops… here goes that 'putting words in mouths' thing again. Julie's Hypocrisy… four.
I guess you can take the zealot out of the cult but you can't take the cult out of the zealot.
Well, I don't know that that would apply to the Taliban. They seem to still be fairly steeped in both. And I think some of the "American' cult… uh, 'culture'… is just as dangerous. Ask the little girl depicted on the cover of the Life magazine running down the street after being doused with napalm… by a people who had NO interest in a war… that was not declared ON them.. or BY them. You're 38? May I ask, girlfriend, were have you BEEN?
I wish you no ill
Okay, now I am almost inclined to say you're lying. You keep SAYING things like this, but your WORDS prove otherwise…
but know this, you and your ilk will never make progress in implementing your lunacy into the secular world
Hey, guys… I 'got ilk' again! And THIS time, it's tantamount to Islamic (we 'think') terrorism!
as long as reasonable thinking people live to stop you
"Stop" me, how, Julie? I have my ideas as to what you are alluding to, but then, YOU don't like killing and violence, right. So, I'm curious: "stop" me, how?
so do not waste too much energy on it.
Girlfriend, you ain't said nuthin' but a word. Stick a fork in ME, 'cause I can be as 'done' with this... as you can.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Are you SURE, Jules? Or have you, like so many others, succumbed to the thinking that "injustice HERE - in America - is a threat to justice - everywhere American SAYS it is?"
Of course we need only to turn on the TV and watch the devastation to this great nation to know that zealots exist and the damamge they can do.
Yes, dear one. We turned on the TV and saw a MASSIVE devastation that took THOUSANDS of life in a few moments. And we were DEVASTATED. Tell me, are we DEVASTATED every time a bomb… an AMERICAN bomb… goes off in Palestine? Israel? Are we DEVASTATED when the President drops a bomb on innocent people to remove attention from his sordid affair with an intern? Are we DEVASTATED when an oil company that we spend BILLIONS of dollars supporting wipes out two tribes in Africa in order to forcefully obtain land for drilling oil? Are we DEVASTATED when it is purely 'earthling' man that is being massacred? Or are we only 'devastated'… when it is an American 'earthling' man?
Game. Set. Match.
Shelby: gained absolutely nothing
Julie: hypocrisy now at five... and counting.
Peace.
A slave of Christ,
SJ
