@LUHE - Do you work for WT? Cause you quoted me out-of-context like a WT Pro. HAHAHAHA! But seriously, my post was not intended to defend WT actions. We all know that it is pretty f***ed up not to report a single case of child abuse over that time, no matter the reasons. But there are many other factors involved in the systemic failure of WT, many of which were not even understood at the time, such as the dynamics and consequences of group-think mentality, that we are now more aware of and can help us, as a society in general, to better understand why we failed to do more in the past. Acknowledging the reality of that one good point doesn't mean that WT is off the hook for their past mistakes, though. However, following up on that thought, and something that I forgot to mention in my previous post, was that in light of how most organizations in general would probably fail if we examined their child abuse procedures from the past, perhaps it would have been better to use case studies that were more recent than those they examined. That way, the commission could've shown definitively, without a doubt, that WT continues to fail in regards to their child abuse handling procedures. I think it's fair to say that they did show that anyway. But in the minds of current, mentally in JW's who are aware of what occurred during the royal commission, they cling to the fact that these were old cases to excuse WT in order to reduce their cognitive dissonance and make themselves think that those were just mistakes of the past that no longer occur.
TimDrake1914
JoinedPosts by TimDrake1914
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60
Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing
by wannaexit ini've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.
seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.
they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.
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Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing
by wannaexit ini've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.
seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.
they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.
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TimDrake1914
Another point where I thought WT was right, and a point that I think many of us forget, is how the understanding and handling of child abuse really has changed drastically over the years, and one can not totally fault them for their lack of understanding the best way to handle it in the past. Especially considering how society in general has also had to learn how to better help victims, right alongside WT.
However, on the flip side, with all the new insights we have gained, one would expect them to be more willing to change their policies and procedures where needed, or at least, be more humble about their shortcomings and show that they genuinely want to improve things. Reading their rebuttal, though, doesn't really give you the sense that that is their genuine desire. To me, they just come accross as "not at fault", rather than coming accross as desirous of helping those who have suffered.
Because of that, it makes one of their better points (the one I initially mentioned) sound as if it lacks substance, and only really comes accross as an "excuse" due to the overall tone of the rebuttal. Like everyone else has stated, they just make themselves look worse, and if they were in a judicial committee, one could argue that their response lacks "repentance", and they would be deserving of being DF'd. LOL!
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Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing
by wannaexit ini've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.
seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.
they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.
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TimDrake1914
Reading the WT response was really difficult in many ways. I feel a bit conflicted. On one hand, trying to be fair and unbiased, I understand their need to "fight for their rights" and use/take advantage of whatever leverage the law provides them and allows them to have in regards to their legal right to fight for their religious freedom. Like they stated in their rebuttal, there is a difference between what the law "permits" and what the law "forbids", and they have a right to do everything they want, as long as the law doesn't "forbid" it. But that right there is the problem this commission has brought to light. I agree with WT that governments must pass laws to make them do more than what they are doing, since that seems to be the only way we will ever get mandatory reporting.
However, on the flip side, most of what I read from the rebuttal seems to go against the principals that JW's are told to live by. In other words, it's just more double-speak from WT. So even though I am totally with them on the whole "religious freedom" argument, I just can't help but feel that them trying to even make that argument betrays the principles they are supposed to be live by. As one poster previously commented, if they really did try and live by Christ's example, they wouldn't focus on what the law allows them to do or not do, but instead would be guided by the principle of true "justice". Their responses to the allegations mostly come accross as pharasiacal, and in many places, just lack empathy and understanding.
None of this is surprising, of course. As someone who pretty much lost all faith in religion thanks to WT, I would love to see a world in which rationality, reasonableness and human kindness based on empirical evidence and scientific findings and not religious belief was the norm. But I also believe in the law and taking advantage of what the law allows, and for now, the law allows religion and its crazy reasonings. So good on you WT for fighting for what you believe. But I still think your policies and beliefs are crap, and that they prohibit you and your adherents from being the very people you purport and actually strive to be, and that to me is just amazing. But again, that's religion for you.
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New Generation Understanding
by momzcrazy inhello everyone, i am new here and newly freed from the snare of wtbs.
my sister, also newly freed, said our mom told her at the annual meeting there was a new "understanding" on the generation confusion.
it is now the annointed that will not pass away.. has anyone else heard this?
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TimDrake1914
Reading this thread, after so many years have passed, and after yet ANOTHER, even more RIDICULOUS, newly revised generation teaching, it's not only funny, but quite sad, really. I can't wait for the next revision in another couple of years, or sooner if people keep complaining. -
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Preach or Tithe- Publishers choice
by All for show inmy siblings and i have been talking about the money woes.
we have thrown around the idea for them to keep the preaching/pioneer arrangement to keep some busy.
to increase cash flow they can institute a new tithing arrangement.
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TimDrake1914
I would love for this happen, because it will only lead to another nail in the WT coffin. -
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What is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month?
by StephaneLaliberte inwhat is the monthly stipend that the bethelites receive every month?
does any one has an actual number?
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TimDrake1914
To play devil's advocate, when they enter Bethel, don't they have to sign a vow of poverty? So aren't they expected to "live poorly"? Granted, I'm sure the GB are under the same vow and live quite a different life from a regular bethelite. Not fair at all, of course. But then again, we are talking about a cult aren't we?
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Just read "Zealot - The Life And Times Of Jesus Of Nazareth"
by EdenOne inso, keeping in mind that mrs. eden isn't so comfortable with english, i have been searching for books on the subject of the historical jesus and who wrote the bible, and i got very frustrated because there's not a lot of those in my native language.
most of what i read in english simply hasn't been translated, which is a shame.
in any case, i managed to get two: bart ehrman's "misquoting jesus" and reza aslan's "zealot".
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TimDrake1914
I follow Bart Ehrman on his blog, and it just so happens that he had an entry about Reza's book Zealot. I actually read Zealot before any of Bart's books and was also quite impressed with it. However, Bart didn't look too favorably on Reza's book, probably because he doesn't feel Reza isn't really well qualified to talk about early christianity. Having read Bart's books, I can see why he would think that, since all of his work is about early christianity. Bart seemed to view Zealot as more of a fictionalized account of Jesus, rather than an actual scholarly take on Jesus. Nevertheless, it was an easy and entertaining read, even if it's not totally accurate. If you want on something scholarly on the Hebrew scriptures, see if you can find Richard Friedman's Who Wrote the Bible. It's a pretty easy and fascinating read. For something on the historical Jesus, Bart has another book called How Jesus Became God. I haven't finished reading it, but I'm pretty sure it will have a lot of info on the historical Jesus. Another book I would recommend from Bart is Jesus, Interrupted and Forged. Two great books that I really enjoyed that talk about how the new testament came about and how it was corrupted, and which books in the bible were probably not written by who we think they were. -
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My first post
by thewalker inhi, i just joined the board and wanted to present myself.. i'm active, in fact very active in congregation activities serving "where the need is great" in a foreign language congregation somewhere in western europe.
as a young brother, i'm seen as an example as i'm doing all a good witness should do.. i had doubts years ago but i decided just to ignore them and move to another congregation to preach more.
that worked for some years but i'm now at the exact same point.
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TimDrake1914
Welcome my friend. You are among friends here. Some of us may be gentle with our words, while some of us may be more blunt, as you have already seen for yourself if you've been lurking. But the one thing that we all have in common is that we understand you, we have been there, and our arms are always open to those like you who feel lost and alone within the organization. You are not alone. Your doubts are valid, and you have found a place where you can finally speak your mind if you need to. Also, be sure to check out our other community on reddit.
It's another fast growing community where you will find others just like us. You will be well received there as well, as you have been here.
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Couldn't take it anymore.
by Darkknight757 inso i decided yesterday to give my wife's full disclosure.
not sure it was the best decision considering she holds very firmly to the resurrection hope so we can see our babies again.. anyways she is agreeable to begin a study to find a better truth.
where is a good place to go to get some good reliable biblical info on the web that we can consider together?.
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TimDrake1914
Personally, I would recommend the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV). It was translated by a committee of established biblical scholars, using the the oldest and most reliable manuscripts available. From what I've read of it, it has the least theological bias of all the different translations out there. -
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Does a brother have to be appointed an MS to be an account servant?
by 4thgen inas many of you know, my ex-husband was removed as an elder for child abuse.
i was told at the time he would never be reappointed in any capacity.
yet i heard today he was appointed as an account servant.
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TimDrake1914
Yes, that can happen. I know of a couple of congregations that used brothers with no privileges to be the accounts servant. Usually, it's because they don't have enough appointed brothers to serve, so they use whoever they can.