My will states the children go to my childhood friend also. And that is written in stone.
Posts by alamb
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7Question for xjw parents of youngsters........
by flower ini'm in need of advice or just other opinions or experiences.
this is kinda directed to xjw's who have spent their whole lives in the org and had to leave lifelong friends and family behind when they left.
especially, single parents..if there are any others out there i'd like to hear from you.. my question has to do with what system you have in place to make sure of your childs future in the event of something happening to you.
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To Mr. Bowen aka Silentlambs
by YoYoMama inhaving a hard time with dateline eh?.
i admire what you are trying to do in behalf of all those that have been sexually abused, but i believe you are going about it in the wrong way.. you have taken up a fight against jehovah himself and this is futile.
the organization has some flaws, as is expected of any imperfect organization.
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alamb
YoYo MaMa,
I have a few questions:
I was molested by an elder 35 years ago. He died 6 years ago, still an elder. None of his daughters are Jehovah's Witnesses today. I myself am not. I did stay in the organization for 30 years waiting on Jehovah and watching him being blessed for his efforts in the congregation with additional responsibilites. Yes, the BOE was aware of his actions.My own father molested me while an elder throughout my teens, while I was an auxilllary and regular pioneer. Since then I have taken him to court to restrain him from having unsupervised contact with my children. His actions are now part of court records and available to the public. These contain his own admissions of guilt above and beyond what I remember and accused him of. He is a publisher. He babysits for sisters in the KH while they are on Bible Studies. After going to his elder body and telling them I wanted to warn the sisters of this danger, I was threatened with DF'ing. My mother, who places 300 magazines a month, has stated in court, "He's not a child molester, you were over 12." Court tapes are available.
So, in whose hands is the safety of the children, if not people like Mr. Bowen?
Why is it that new light and actions on the part of the organization are now only reactions to apostates who confront them with the hypocrisy...U.N. situation, for example. If it is right and Jehovah is backing them, why succumb to apostate lies and change? The "truth" has nothing to hide!
Am I to wait on Jehovah, or take actions to protect my own children and those of others from my father? My children are now still in contact with my parents in spite of a court order, with the blessing of the congregation to over-ride any court order issued by the courts of Satan.
Maybe my father will babysit your children or grandchildren one day, or sit next to you at a district convention, or give a talk at your hall and eat in your home. I guess you will rely on Jehovah then too, right?
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Favorite food at Assemblies
by finnrot ini hated growing up as a witness.
i hated the boring ass meetings where you could hear a pin drop on the floor, i hated going door to door and i hated not being normal like the other kids.. but the one thing i liked was going to the assemlies at the oakland coliseum.
i would wander around and find other kids to goof around with.
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alamb
Fruit bags when they had cherries. Not for pit spitting and stem tongue-tying, of course.
Cheese danishes and when the puddings froze. -
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Kids and the JW Religion
by txwild91 ini am a divorced exjw with 3 children who live with their jw dad.
they are 16, 13 and 11. i am worried about the fact that they were raised as jw's and are now questioning if they want to make this their life or not.
while that is not a bad thing i am worried because they were immersed in this religion from the time they were born until i left the religion about 3 years ago.
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alamb
another spin:
A Jehovah's Witness parent is never 100%, truly the parental authority. So much power is given to the organization the JW parent is simply caretaker at best.
If a young person disobeys a rule set forth by them:
1. The youth is forced into a confrontation with "concerned elders."
2. The parents are called into the backroom to explain the youth's actions.
3. The parent can have his priveleges in the KH restricted or obliterated depending on the "crime" and perceived repentence.
4. The child, if baptized, unbaptized publisher, on the school, can have those priveleges taken away also.The ultimate authority in the child's life is not the concerned parent, it is the mother organization. A non-custodial parent is relegated to "visitor".
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What did you like about HIGH SCHOOL!
by Beans ingetting stoned and drunk every weekend at a house or creek party,crashing other high school parties,spending the summer at the beach,getting blow jobs more frequently,playing rugby and driving the other guys faces into the ground,no rent,free food,waiting for my parents to go to the meeting on sunday so i could bang my girlfriend for 2 hours!.
these are only a few of my good memories but really sums it all up!.
beans.
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alamb
Being the only girl driving a '52 Jimmy. I would chain the guys monster trucks to the bumper and drag them across the parking lot! They didn't know of compound gear and a straight 6.
Other than that I was a pioneer and 4.0. I guess that was my outlet.
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alamb
Old enough to know better,
Still to young to care.
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Nineteen twice. -
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Warrant to search the Kingdom Hall
by roybatty inback in the late 1980s, i recall being at one of my first elders/servants meeting with the circuit overseer.
at this meeting the co read a letter from brooklyn regarding the records kept at the kingdom hall and what to do if the police/sheriff showed up with a warrant to remove them.
if i remember correctly, we were told not to cooperate with them, to stall them and to contact the societys lawyers.
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alamb
THis one?
July 1. 1989
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS IN THE UNITED STATES
C O N F I DEN T I A L
Dear Brothers:
We are writing to help all of you as individual elders be aware of a growing concern regarding the handling of your duties that may involve legal issues or questions. Due to its importance. the presiding overseer should arrange for a special meeting of the body of elders to read and consider this letter carefully.In spreading the Kingdom message, it is appropriate that we be bold and outspoken. Jesus commanded that "what you hear whispered. preach from the housetops." (Matthew 10:27) Even when worldly authoritiesdemand that we keep silent, we reply as did the apostles: "We cannot stop speaking about the things we have seen and heard." (Acts 4:20) The Christian congregation will continue to declare the Kingdom message boldly until Jehovah says the work is done.Elders share the obligation to shepherd the flock. However, they must be careful not to divulge information about personal matters to unauthorized persons. There is "a time to keep quiet," when "your words should prove to be few." (Ecclesiastes 3:7; 5:2) Proverbs 10:19 warns: "In the abundance of words there does not fail to be transgression. but the one keeping his lips in check is acting discreetly." Problems are created when elders unwisely reveal matters that should be kept confidential. Elders must give special heed to the counsel: "Do not reveal the confidential talk of another." (Proverbs 25:9)Often the peace, unity, and spiritual well-being of the congregation are at stake. Improper use of the tongue by an elder can result in serious legal problems for the individual. the congregation. and even the Society.While we as Christians are ready to forgive others who may wrong us. those in the world are not so inclined. Worldly persons are quick to resort to lawsuits if they feel their "rights" have been violated. Some who oppose the Kingdom preaching work readily take advantage of any legal provisions to interfere with it or impede its progress. Thus. elders must especially guard the use of the tongue. Jesus faced opposers who tried to "catch him in speech. so as to turn him over to the government." (Luke 20:20) He instructed us to be "cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves" in such situations. (Matthew 10:16) Where such a threat exists, our position as elders should be in line with David's words: "I will set a muzzle as a guard to my own mouth, as long as anyone wicked is in front of me."-Psalm 39:1.
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERSJuly 1. 1989
Page 2
In recent years, this matter has come to be a cause for increasing concern. The spirit of the world has sensitized people regarding their legal "rights" and the legal means by which they can exact punishment if such "rights" are violated. Hence, a growing number of vindictive or disgruntled ones, as well as opposers have initiated lawsuits to inflict financial penalties on the individual, the congregation. or the Society. Many of these lawsuits are the result of the misuse of the tongue. As elders, remember that ill-advised statements or actions on your part can sometimes be interpreted legally as violating others' "rights."The need for elders to maintain strict confidentiality has been repeatedly stressed. Please see The Watchtower of April It 1971. pages 222-4. and September 1. 1987. pages 12-15. The September 1977 our Kingdom Service. page 6. paragraph 36, and the ks77 textbook, page 65. also- provide helpful direction and counsel. That material strongly emphasized the elders' responsibility to avoid revealing confidential information to those not entitled to it.The legal consequences of a breach of confidentiality by the elders can be substantial. If the elders fail to follow the society's direction carefully in handling confidential matters. such mistakes could result in successful litigation by.those offended. Substantial monetary damages could be assessed against the elders or congregation. In some cases where the authorities are involved, certain complications could lead to a fine or imprisonment. These possibilities underscore the need for elders to be discerning and to follow carefully directions provided by the Society.I. WHAT TO DO IN SPECIFIC CASESA. Judicial Committee MattersJudicial committees must follow carefully the Society's instructions in carrying out their duties. (Note k07. pages 66-70; ks81 pages 160-70.)Anything submitted in writing to the committee by the alleged wrongdoer or by witnesses should be kept in strict confidence. If it is necessary to continue at a later time a committee hearing. the members of the committee should submit to the chairman any personal notes they have taken. The chairman will keep these notes in a secure place to prevent breaches of confidentiality. The notes may bereturned to the individual elders when the hearing resumes. Upon conclusion of the case. The chairman should place only necessary notes and documents, a summary of the case, and the S-77 forms in a sealed envelope for the congregation file. Nothing should be preserved outside of this sealed envelope (including unnecessarypersonal notes) by any elder on the committee. Obviously, no committee will ever allow judicial proceedings to be tape recorded or allow witnesses testifying before the committee to take notes.
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
July 1. 1989
Page 3
B. Child Abuse
Many states have child abuse reporting laws. When elders receive reports of physical or sexual abuse of a child, they should contact the Society's Legal Department immediately. Victims of such abuse need to be protected from further danger. -See "If the Worst Should Happen." Awake! January 22t 1985. page 8.C. Search Warrants and Subpoenas1. A search warrant is a court order authorizing the police to search premises to locate evidence that may be used in a criminal prosecution. No elder should ever consent to the search of a Kingdom Hall or any other place where confidential records are stored. However. armed with a search warrant the police do not need consent and may even use force to accomplish their task. Likely before obtaining a search warrant. the police or other governmental officials will make inquiries regarding confidential records. make request to obtain the records, or indicate that they will seek a search warrant if the elder(s) involved does not cooperate. In any such situation, the Society's Legal Department should be called immediately.At any time an elder is confronted with a search warrant (whether given advance notice or not), the elder should first ask to read the warrant. After reading it he should ask if he can call for legal guidance and then call the Society's Legal Department. If for some reason the Legal Department cannot be contacted. the elders involved should make every effort to obtain ,the assistance of a local attorney for the purpose of protecting the confidentiality of the records. It may be impossible to stop determined officers from conducting the search authorized by the warrant. Conscientious elders will want to do all they reasonably and peaceably can to preserve the confidentiality of the congregation in harmony with the principle set out in Acts 5:29.2. Subpoenas are demands for records or for the appearance of an individual at a trial or deposition to give testimony. Subpoenas may be issued by a court or in some cases by a governmental agency or an attorney. If an elder receives a subpoena# he should contact the Society's Legal Department immediately. Never turn over records notes. documents. or reveal any confidential matter sought by subpoena without receiving direction from the Legal Department.D. Crimes and Criminal InvestigationsIn some cases the elders will form judicial committees to handle alleged wrongdoing that also could constitute a violation of Caesar's criminal laws (e.g., theft. assault, etc.). Generally. a secular investigation into a matter that is a concern to the congregation should not delay conducting a judicial hearing. To avoid entanglement with the secular authorities who may be investigating the same matter, the strictest confidentiality (even of the fact that there is a committee) must be maintained.
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
July 1. 1989
Page 4
If the alleged wrongdoer confesses to the sin (crime), no one else should be present besides the members of the committee. When evidence supports the accusation but genuine repentance is not displayed resulting in a decision to disfellowship this should be handled in the normal course regarding advice of appeal rights andannouncements to the congregation. In cases of serious criminal wrongdoing (e.g., murder, rape, etc.), or where the criminal conduct is widely known in the community the body of elders should contact the Society before proceeding with the judicial committee process.E. When Servants and Publishers MoveA considerable number of publishers, including elders and ministerial servants move from one congregation to another. Sometimes the circumstances surrounding their departure are unsettled. Some appointed brothers may be experiencing problems that have brought their qualifications into question. It is not uncommon for a body of elders to hold back in giving counsel. allowing a brother to move without discussing his problem. Thereafter, they decline to recommend his reappointment in his new congregation. Often such a brother protests, requiring extensive correspondence between the bodies of elders. Much personal, and sometimes embarrassing, information must then be passed on. Such mishandling of things greatly increases the potential for seriousrepercussions. Problems can be avoided by the body of elders assuming its responsibility to inform a brother that he will not be favorably recommended, fully explaining the reasons why. Every effort should be made to resolve any difference before he leaves, eliminating any need. for controversy involving his new congregation. The body should assign two elders to meet with him before he moves. letting him know whether they are recommending him to the new congregation.This would likewise apply to publishers who move at a time when their personal conduct requires investigation by the elders. If serious accusations of wrongdoing have been made against an individual and he moves to another congregation before matters are finalized# usually it is best for the elders in the original congregation to follow through in handling matters. if possible and if distance permits. They are acquainted with the individual and the circumstances surrounding the alleged wrongdoing; this ordinarily puts them in the best position to get the facts and to handle the case. Handling matters in this way will eliminate the need to reveal confidential information unnecessarily about the private lives of individuals.F. When Lawsuits Are Threatened
If the congregation or the elders (in their capacity as elders) are threatened with a lawsuit, the Society's Legal Department should be contacted immediately. No statements should be made by any member of the body of elders about the merits or validity of an actual or threatened lawsuit without authorization from the Society.TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERSJuly 1. 1989Page 5G. Child CustodyElders may learn that a publisher is facing a dispute over child custody in a divorce proceeding. If the parental rights of such is challenged on the basis of our Christian beliefs, or on the assertion that our beliefs are harmful to a child's best interests, the elders should immediately write to the Society's Legal Department. In a rare emergency, a telephone call may be necessary. The Legal Department will assess the facts and determine the degree of its involvement, if any. Elders have no authority to make any promises about the Society's paying legal fees or handling specific cases. There is no need to contact the Society if there is no indication that the beliefs and practices of Jehovah's Witnesses will be attacked in a child custody dispute. When you write to the Society's Legal Department about a specific case. please provide the following information:
1. The names of the parents and their attorneys.
2. The number of children involved and their ages.
3. A brief description of the facts, including the presence of any apostates.
4. An assessment of the Christian parent's spiritual condition-Is he or she new in the truth? Active?Inactive? Balanced?
5. The status of the legal proceedings-Has the matter gone to trial? Has the trial date been set? If soywhen?II. POINTS-TO REMEMBER
A. Appreciate the Importance of Maintaining ConfidentialityElders must exercise extraordinary caution when it comes to handling confidential information about the private lives of others. Do not mistakenly minimize the gravity of a breach of confidentiality. Unauthorized disclosure of confidential information can result in costly lawsuits. Even if a lawsuit turns out favorably. valuable time and energy that could have been devoted to Kingdom interests will be lost.
B. Do Not Make Statements to Secular Authorities Until You Receive Legal Advice from the Society You are not legally required to make immediate responses to secular authorities about matters that couldinvolve the disclosure of confidential information. Voluntarily allowing the Kingdom Hall or confidential records to be searched, where no search warrant is produced, could infringe on the legal rights of the congregation or of others. No statements should be made until you have an understanding of your legal positionfrom the Society's Legal Department.TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
July 1. 1989
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G. Child CustodyElders may learn that a publisher is facing a dispute over child custody in a divorce proceeding. If the parental rights of such is challenged on the basis of our Christian beliefs, or on the assertion that our beliefs are harmful to a child's best interests, the elders should immediately write to the Society's Legal Department. In a rare emergency, a telephone call may be necessary. The Legal Department will assess the facts and determine thedegree of its involvement, if any. Elders have no authority to make any promises about the Society's paying legal fees or handling specific cases. There is no need to contact the Society if there is no indication that the beliefs and practices of Jehovah's Witnesses will be attacked in a child custody dispute.When you write to the Society's Legal Department about a specific case. please provide the following information:
1. The names of the parents and their attorneys.
2. The number of children involved and their ages.
3. A brief description of the facts, including the presence of any apostates.
4. An assessment of the Christian parent's spiritual condition-Is he or she new in the truth? Active?Inactive? Balanced?
5. The status of the legal proceedings-Has the matter gone to trial? Has the trial date been set? If soywhen?
II. POINTS-TO REMEMBER
A. Appreciate the Importance of Maintaining ConfidentialityElders must exercise extraordinary caution when it comes to handling confidential information about the private lives of others. Do not mistakenly minimize the gravity of a breach of confidentiality. Unauthorized disclosure of confidential information can result in costly lawsuits. Even if a lawsuit turns out favorably. valuable time and energy that could have been devoted to Kingdom interests will be lost.
B. Do Not Make Statements to Secular Authorities Until You Receive Legal Advice from the Society You are not legally required to make immediate responses to secular authorities about matters that couldinvolve the disclosure of confidential information. Voluntarily allowing the Kingdom Hall or confidential records to be searched, where no search warrant is produced, could infringe on the legal rights of the congregation or of others. No statements should be made until you have an understanding of your legal positionfrom the Society's Legal Department.TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
July 1. 1989
Page 6
C. Be Extremely Careful with Written MaterialAll material related to judicial matters should be kept in a safe placer accessible only to elders. Final reports on the handling of judicial matters should be placed in a sealed envelope in the congregation file. A judicial committee should avoid sending to an individual any kind of correspondence that accuses him of specificwrongdoing. (Note ks77, pages 68-9.) Nothing should be put in writing to any disfellowshipped person to advise him of his status or the reasons for it without specific direction from the Society. The rules and procedures of Jehovah's Witnesses do not require such written disclosures. Anything in writing submitted to a judicial committee should be kept in strict confidence. If a judicial committee disfellowships an individual, he should be informed orally of the action taken and of the right to appeal. If the wrongdoer refuses to attend the hearing. two members of the judicial committee should attempt to contact the individual at his home and informhim orally of the decision. If this is not possible, the two elders may be able to inform him by telephone.
D. Guard the Use of Your TongueThink before you speak. Do not discuss private and judicial matters with members of your family. including your wives, or with other members of the congregation. Be extremely careful not to inadvertantly disclose private information when others are present. such as when speaking on the telephone with others listening in ornearby. (Note ks77, page 65.) At times. complicated judicial cases may necessitate consultation with an experienced, mature elder in another congregation or with the circuit overseer. Unless the circuit overseer is the elder consulted, only the pertinent details should be discussed and names should not be used. Elders bear a heavy responsibility in ministering to the needs of the Christian congregation, and observing confidentiality as they do so. (1 Corinthians 16:13) We trust that the information in this letter will help you carry this burden. Please be assured of our love and prayers, and may Jehovah continue to bless you as you shepherd his flock.-1 Peter 5:1-3.Your brothers.OF NEW YORK, IN C.P.S. Due to the importance of the information that is presented herein it is suggested that the body of elders jointly read and consider this letter as soon as possible after its receipt in the congregation. Please do not make any copies of this letter. nor should it be read by others. It should be kept in the congregation's confidential files for any future reference that may be required by the body of elders. -
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Anyone been sent a virus by EMail recently?
by Abaddon ini got a virus (worm_badtrans.b) sent to me from < [email protected]> (which looks like a spoofed email addy); i was wondering whether anyone else had got it sent to them, or whether someone was selecting me specially (awwww, how sweet), as it was sent to my [email protected] address which i use almost exclusively here.. ah, the joys of automatically updated virus scanners.... .
people living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
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alamb
I got one a week ago.
My anti-virus caught it though.I think something's up.
It was sent anonymously with no subject.
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hypocritical parents anyone?
by collegegirl ini was reading one of the posts earlier about how hypocrisy among the rank and file really pushed some over the edge.... well, how about this one?
my mom and i were watching pretty woman on tv tonight (edited version).
it is her favorite movie, so i told her i was going to buy it for her.
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alamb
OK, got you beat.
My father molested me with my mother's blessing because if you are over 12 you are old enough.
They are both active JW's, my mother places 200 mags a month.
Then I get divorced and fight for custody of my children, they sign affidavits saying I am unfit due to being molested! And ask the court for visitation, one at a time, for a week at a time with 3 girls. I bring 3 PhD's to say otherwise. One says my mom doesn't have the skills to own a plant. -
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Good Quote!!! (Apr 15, 2002 WT, p.29)
by stevieb1 inthis is taken from the very latest watchtower magazine and should be applied to many who sit in the high places of the watchtower organization.
here is the quote:.
"it is significant that these two waldensian pastors - daniele rivoire and guiseppe bancheti - expressed appreciation for the way russell explained the bible.
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alamb
I may be off but:
I read of a group in Eastern Europe, I believe, who went underground due to persecution. They studied their literature and were very faithful considering the circumstance. Eventually the ban was lifted and the whole lot was DF'd for going by the old beliefs which had changed just in that time.
Since Russell, most facets of their doctrines have changed. From Pyramids to Inspired Senile old men hiding under a cloak of legal protection and corporations. Don't get me started.....