Posts by AlanF

356

Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??

by Seeker4 in

jw
friends

i'm talking about the new posters, like kitten whiskers, who started posting today (hope this works: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/120817/1.ashx).

and it seems like we're getting a few like this nearly every day.

people who were raised jws, really worry that they are doing the right thing in leaving, yet who have been made to feel not good enough by the wts, who felt they never measured up, who struggled with it, but came to realize that what they'd been brought up to believe was just not the truth.. the same stories are told over and over again, and they come from sincere, good people - not whiny, fault-finding apostates like the rest of us riffraff around here!

AlanF

Welcome to the board, Zarco. Your situation reminds of a number of others, and I don't envy any of these folks.

It can be very difficult to figure out what to do if you leave the Witnesses, but I can tell you that it works itself out pretty well when you do. But you have to look way beyond the narrow confines of the JW religion for this to happen. If you stay in the same old mold -- which is easy to do, especially if you were raised a JW -- you won't make any progress.

As far as what several posters have said regarding not staying with a corrupt religious organization, I agree completely. But you have to find your own comfort level. Based on my personal experience, you're likely to become extremely frustrated after some years go by, as you realize more and more the amount of nonsense and even outright falsehood being taught in God's name, and realize that God really isn't going to do anything about it. The desire to "wait on Jehovah" is rooted in the false notion that JWs really are, in some way, "God's organization" but have just gone astray. The Bible gives its history of the Jews, where God miraculously chose the Israelites to be his people, based not on what they did, but on promises made to their ancestors. Nothing of the kind applies to Jehovah's Witnesses. C. T. Russell gradually invented the religion, and it has evolved steadily since its founding, just as all other new religions do. The only 'evidence' there is that God appointed JW leaders to be this mythological "faithful slave" is their own claims -- quite in contrast to the biblical history of the Jews. So comparing the JWs with the ancient Jews is simply wrong, and assumes that the JW religion is basically right about this. It's this kind of staying in the same old mold that I'm talking about.

Note clearly what Luke 21:8 says: "Look out that you are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ?I am he,? and, ?The due time has approached.? Do not go after them." JW leaders have consistently claimed "I am he" in the sense of claiming to speak for God and Christ (cf. w64 11/1 pp. 645-6). They have consistently and falsely proclaimed, "the due time has approached" in all manner of literature, including books and booklets with titles such as The Time Is At Hand, The Kingdom Is At Hand, God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached, The Approaching Peace of a Thousand Years, etc. etc. etc. If you're really a Bible believer, can you reconcile this command from Jesus with your continued association with a group that he pretty much said was to be avoided?

I wish you success in avoiding the wolves.

AlanF

72

What does your REAL name mean?

by Peaches-n-Cream in

jw
friends

jordon is hebrew and it means "to descend or flow"....ha~!

not very interesting, .

.

AlanF

My name is Alan, and it has variations such as Allan, Allen, Alyn, Alain, etc. According to online sources it means: "handsome, little rock, cheerful, noble, precious". I agree.

AlanF

72

What does your REAL name mean?

by Peaches-n-Cream in

jw
friends

jordon is hebrew and it means "to descend or flow"....ha~!

not very interesting, .

.

AlanF

fullofdoubtnow said:

: My name is of Spanish origin, and means pretty one.

Hmm. None of "fullofdoubtnow" seems particularly Spanish. What am I missing? Are you really "Linda"? AlanF

35

1975 "Explained" by a JW

by Honesty in

jw
friends

have you ever thought about the isrealites beginning to enter the promised land and how they then had to turn back and wander in the wilderness for 40 years?

have you ever wondered if there is a modern day parallel in our time?

perhaps 75 was our approach to that promised land that we then had to turn back from and "wander"... .

AlanF

rebel8 said:

: Does the bible ever actually say there will be modern day parallels for anything?

Not really. The people who wrote the New Testament clearly expected that everything they claimed Jesus predicted would be fulfilled in their own time. For example, Peter clearly stated that they were in "the last days" at the time he wrote, which was before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. There are plenty of other NT examples. Peter clearly expected that everything that Jesus supposedly prophesied would come to pass exactly as written in the Gospels and the rest of the NT. There is no indication whatsoever in the NT that its writers expected that things would go cycling on for another 2000+ years.

Thinking of modern-day "parallels" for things clearly expected for the 1st century is really admitting that a good deal of what NT writers claimed would happen in the 1st century did not happen. But, according to this 'logic', the fact that a great deal that was predicted did not happen is 'proof' fhat the prophecies must have been future from the time that the last accepted Bible writers wrote their material. This is circular reasoning at its finest.

AlanF

52

Should I marry a JW ?

by curiousabouthim in

i am new to the jw world, not one, but do love one.

met a man who down to the tee is amazing.

he is a great man, the only thing i am not so sure about is his "religious" beliefs.

AlanF

The experience of a great many people -- yours truly included -- is that marrying a JW is an invitation to long term unhappiness. Even the Bible says that yoking an ass and an ox together is bad idea. JWs -- no matter how good they might appear at the moment -- will in the long run prove to be asses and a lot worse. Put your emotional money on another horse.

AlanF

48

I Was in a Bad Collision

by Amazing in

jw
friends

last night, i was struck nearly head-on by a person attempting a left turn as i passed through the intersection.

i was injured, as well as the other driver.

the police told me that he broke his arm, and was in shock.

AlanF

Bummer, Jim! Glad you're ok!

AlanF

5

607 website - part 6

by Jeffro in

part 6 in the series.

part 1:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/118445/2082380/post.ashx#2082380.

part 2:http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/118507/2083398/post.ashx#2083398.

AlanF

Once again, a nice article, Jeffro.

AlanF

20

Carbon dating and the Watchtower

by Gill in

AlanF

Hondo, the link you posted was to an article obviously written by Young-Earth Creationists. Their arguments have all been put to rest by proper scientists. See, for example, the various articles on radiocarbon dating at the website www.talkorigins.org.

One thing that completely clobbers YEC claims is that radiocarbon dating has been calibrated at several places around the world by dendrochronology (tree ring dating) and dating of sediment layers in lakes and peat bogs. It shows variation in C14 dates over time, but it also provides a correction factor such that "radiocarbon dates" can be corrected to actual dates. Of course, dating an individual specimen is subject to a number of possible sources of inaccuracy.

The simple fact is that the only reason biblical inerrantists don't like C14 dating is that it conflicts with their claims about biblical dates.

AlanF

75

I am a "semi-apologist"!

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

what is this some kind of promotion?

after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

AlanF

Alligator Wisdom wrote:

:: But the majority of JWs around the world are of the opinion that categories (1) and (2) are the same, and so to question "Jehovah's organization" is to question Jehovah himself. That's the reason disfellowshipping for disagreeing with the Watchtower Society exists. In other words, this whole nonsensical view comes from the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses, not from individual rank and file JWs.

: Perhaps the majority do think so. But as you and I can agree, this reasoning or explanation trickles down from the WTS (leaders of the religion they call Jehovah's Witnesses) and not from the individual worshipper of Jehovah God.

Well of course! And that's exactly why Jehovah's Witnesses are a destructive cult!

Individual JWs have two choices when they disagree about some teaching: shut up or get out. But these are lousy choices. If you shut up, you're not being true to yourself and you always have to endure hearing something false being touted as "truth from Jehovah". If you get out, you're almost sure to be shunned. You want examples? Probably you already have a pile of them yourself.

While you and some of your acquaintences might have a balanced view of the Watchtower Society, and claim that you can worship Jehovah apart from it, the Society absolutely disagrees about this fundamental point. It has repeatedly taught that one cannot earn salvation from God apart from being a member of the Jehovah's Witness religion. It teaches that if you disagree -- even in your heart and never express it to anyone -- you're an apostate. An apostate only in the meaningless sense of "leaving a former loyalty"? Nope. An apostate in the sense of "abandoning God". So when a sincere worshiper of Jehovah has a sincere disagreement with JW leaders, JW teaching is that this person is "harboring private ideas" that make him an apostate from God. The Society is really calling such a righteous person evil. I'm sure you know what scripture talks about God's view of people who do that.

But you know all this. So I have a couple of questions for you: Knowing that Witness leaders have committed a number of serious crimes against the JW community and are not about to repent, do you think that they have God's approval? If not, why would a sincere Christian continue giving lip service to loyalty to them?

AlanF

75

I am a "semi-apologist"!

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

well, according to our pontiff in residence alan f anyway.

what is this some kind of promotion?

after all, i used to used to be an unreformed apologist troll.

AlanF

Ok, Alligator Wisdom, I see what you're talking about.

You consider that there are at least two types of "Jehovah's witnesses", of which we're concerned with these:

(1) The generic "witness of Jehovah" in the sense that one bears witness to one's faith about Jehovah.

(2) The specific "one of Jehovah's Witnesses" in the sense that the person so designated is a member of the religion that calls itself "Jehovah's Witnesses" and takes a vow, through baptism, to obey "God's spirit-directed organization", i.e., the one that issues its directives through various Watchtower corporations.

In answer to your original question, there are a few posters on this board who appear to consider themselves in category (1). However, only a small fraction of them also consider themselves in catetory (2). Most posters on this board are ex-JWs, and I'm sure that when they were still JWs, they believed, as I was taught from infancy, that there is no difference between (1) and (2). This is what I tried to explain in my previous post.

The Society itself has long taught that there is no difference between (1) and (2). Indeed, as I vaguely alluded in my previous post, the very term "Jehovah's witnesses" (with an uncapitalized "w") is a generic term that technically means (1) but was chosen to confuse unwary people into thinking that (1) actually means (2). This deliberate attempt to confuse people is clearly shown in the 1959 'history' book Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, which actually argues that because Abel and Jesus were "witnesses of Jehovah" in the generic sense, they were also "Jehovah's witnesses" in the special sense, meaning members of the religion whose instructions today come from the Watchtower Society! Thus the book argued that "Jehovah's witnesses" are the world's oldest -- indeed the original -- religion! Note that the Society began using the proper name "Jehovah's Witnesses" rather than the generic term "Jehovah's witnesses" for the religion about 1977.

That you were taught a more reasonable view is unusual. Perhaps it's due to your location, or perhaps to a few individuals whose views differed from those of the Society itself. But the majority of JWs around the world are of the opinion that categories (1) and (2) are the same, and so to question "Jehovah's organization" is to question Jehovah himself. That's the reason disfellowshipping for disagreeing with the Watchtower Society exists. In other words, this whole nonsensical view comes from the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses, not from individual rank and file JWs.

AlanF