Flash

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Posts by Flash

• 
  44

  144,000 a literal number

  by Bonnie_Clyde in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the questions from readers has affirmed that the 144,000 is a literal number.

  it states that some numbers in revelation are symbolic and others are literal.

  it argues that since the great crowd which is unnumbered is mentioned right after the 144,000, then logically the 144,000 would have to be literal.

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  Flash

  Narkissos

  An admittedly simplistic argument (the best in this case):

  Are the 12,000 figure for each of the twelve tribes (Rev. 7:5-8) making up the 144,000 (v. 4) symbolical or literal?

  How does the addition of 12 symbolical figures come up to a literal one?

  I don't see how one cancels out the other. I think their reasoning is correct.

  Are the measurements for the New Jerusalem, i.e. 144 cubits (Rev. 21:17), with 12 gates and 12 foundations, symbolical or literal?

  Symbolic, I could'nt guess the literal application. I think that's something we'll find out later, post-Armageddon .........................................

  Leolaia

  You're reading a number into the text when there is none mentioned. You can infer a number from the singular article, but there is no parallelism between numbers. However the "Lamb" and the "144,000" are both figurative expressions.

  I disagree, and I can't explain it better than they did. If it doesn't make sense to you, then it doesn't

  Here is a rather goofy instance of this weak argument:

  ***

  w60 6/15 p. 384 Questions from Readers ***

  Further, at Revelation 14:1, 3, we read of Jesus Christ as standing upon the mount Zion together with 144,000 others. The 144,000 would logically be as literal as the 1, making a total of 144,001 standing upon the mount. Besides, why give such a large and specific number if it does not impart information?

  I believe its neither goofy or weak. Again, its logical and makes perfect sense to me.

  ............................................

  To the both of you...What do you believe it means?
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  40

  Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-24-04 WT Study

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  comments you will not hear at the october 24, 2004 wt study (september 15, 2004 issue)

  review comments will be in black and parentheses ().

  wt quotes will be in red and quotes "".

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  Flash

  We are free moral agents (free to do what the WTS tells us we can ),

  LOL, I like your wit in exposing their deception.

  Unfounded criticism from false friends.

  Like the kind we recieve from fellow Christians at the Hall??

  w03 12/15 pp. 23-24 Prove Yourself Ready for Jehovah?s Day ***

  For others, secular education as a means to attain financial success becomes a snare. Granted, a certain level of schooling may be useful to obtain employment.

  Typical FEAR TACTIC along with the usual 'disclaimer.'

  However, the truth is that in the time-consuming pursuit of obtaining advanced education, some have harmed themselves spiritually.

  w94 2/15 pp. 23-24 Keep Your Distance When Danger Threatens ***

  Some brothers have immersed themselves in commercial enterprises at the cost of their families, their health, and their theocratic responsibilities.

  More FEAR.

  Yes, according to the WTS there is only one channel to spiritual nourishment and it is not the Bible.

  Yes Blondie, where would we be if not for the ALL CONSUMING spiritual program the FDS provides/demands!?

  What if the emotional and physical suffering is caused by "mature" worshipers of Jehovah?

  Excelent Point!

  Brother ThinksSheIsFaking: She isn?t applying the counsel she received last time. She can?t be too depressed; she went to Six Flags last week, and on a Sunday too.

  On a SUNDAY? ...Off with her head!!

  Aids to faithfulness include regular Bible study and presence at Christian meetings (3 rd mention),

  GUILT, GUILT, GUILT.

  I thought it was Jesus who carried the load with us?

  Come to me, all YOU who are toiling and loaded down, and I will refresh YOU. 29 Take my yoke upon YOU and learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart, and YOU will find refreshment for YOUR souls. 30 For my yoke is kindly and my load is light." MATTHEW 11:28-30

  Yeah, what's with them? They rarely acknowedge Him. It understandable though, He's only been appointed our Lord and Savior, King of Kings! I guess that doesn't mean much 'down here.' And besides, what better way to please God than to ignore His Son?

  This God-given armor includes qualities that a Christian...

  This is all that Jesus usualy gets, its nothing more than Honorable Mention!

  Kingdom Ministry 4/93 p. 3 "To the House of Jehovah Let Us Go" ***

  We should always present and use this literature in a way that cultivates respect for it. This teaches new ones to appreciate the organization and to rely upon its provisions.

  More conditioning from the not-so-faithful or discreet slave!

  .................................

  Thanks Blondie for another enlightening expose of how the WTS controls the congregations.

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• 
  44

  144,000 a literal number

  by Bonnie_Clyde in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the questions from readers has affirmed that the 144,000 is a literal number.

  it states that some numbers in revelation are symbolic and others are literal.

  it argues that since the great crowd which is unnumbered is mentioned right after the 144,000, then logically the 144,000 would have to be literal.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Flash

  I think they're right on this one. Their currant explaination is differant from how they explained it before. I think their first one is better. They said that "the Lamb" in Revalation 14:1 was Jesus and and since there is only one "Lamb of God" the 144,000 standing with "him" must be a true number, not symbolic. Also, they said it was unreasonable to think that the statement made in verse one would be split and be both literal and symbolic....It makes sense to me.
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  79

  What is the true Christian religion / faith?

  by evergreen in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i,m going to cut to the chase here .i am not long viewing this website and am fascinated at much of what i have read.currently i attend meetings, but sit there and think of what i now know about the society and its past.i just feel so confused at the moment with religion.. its a bit like who shot jfk ,did man really land on the moon etc .. except it involves all of us( just wish i knew the truth).

  the only thing that is keeping me there right now is that all my family are in the "truth" ,,and i cant just stay at home and be shunned which i have recently experienced ( was inactive for a while) .. if i knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that i have found the true faith and discern that it is definately the true faith, i would then make a stand and nothing would stop me .

  already i am reading the scriptures without the aid of wt publications and what i am reading is amazing .i am starting to feel that i am now getting closer to god by simply doing this coupled with prayer.. there must be one true faith as there was in the first century.

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  Flash

  Heathen

  Flash--- I also agree on those issues but there is more to some that the WTBTS does go beyond what is written and publishes opinions that are accepted as doctrine.

  Your absolutely right. There is no denying it.

  I even believe that the use of the cross is a form of idolotry and just because someone is wearing cross does not make them christian. I do believe that there is only one right way to worship God that is acceptible .

  Right again, no question about it.

  If you read the old testament it was true then and it is true today . Jesus even said " not everyone saying to me lord lord will be admitted to the kingdom of the heavens."

  I agree with you 100% Heathen! Surprised?
• 
  79

  What is the true Christian religion / faith?

  by evergreen in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i,m going to cut to the chase here .i am not long viewing this website and am fascinated at much of what i have read.currently i attend meetings, but sit there and think of what i now know about the society and its past.i just feel so confused at the moment with religion.. its a bit like who shot jfk ,did man really land on the moon etc .. except it involves all of us( just wish i knew the truth).

  the only thing that is keeping me there right now is that all my family are in the "truth" ,,and i cant just stay at home and be shunned which i have recently experienced ( was inactive for a while) .. if i knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that i have found the true faith and discern that it is definately the true faith, i would then make a stand and nothing would stop me .

  already i am reading the scriptures without the aid of wt publications and what i am reading is amazing .i am starting to feel that i am now getting closer to god by simply doing this coupled with prayer.. there must be one true faith as there was in the first century.

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  Flash

  I'm sorry evergreen, I am forgeting my manners. WELCOME to the Board!
• 
  79

  What is the true Christian religion / faith?

  by evergreen in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i,m going to cut to the chase here .i am not long viewing this website and am fascinated at much of what i have read.currently i attend meetings, but sit there and think of what i now know about the society and its past.i just feel so confused at the moment with religion.. its a bit like who shot jfk ,did man really land on the moon etc .. except it involves all of us( just wish i knew the truth).

  the only thing that is keeping me there right now is that all my family are in the "truth" ,,and i cant just stay at home and be shunned which i have recently experienced ( was inactive for a while) .. if i knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that i have found the true faith and discern that it is definately the true faith, i would then make a stand and nothing would stop me .

  already i am reading the scriptures without the aid of wt publications and what i am reading is amazing .i am starting to feel that i am now getting closer to god by simply doing this coupled with prayer.. there must be one true faith as there was in the first century.

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  Flash

  Narkissos
  

  Flash:

  much of their core doctrines are correct.

  Which ones?

  Not to engage another endless discussion, but just for Evergreen's information: I don't think so.

  Here is a list of the major things I am convinced the Witnesses have right;

• Jehovah is not a trinity
• Jesus is God's first creation
• The Angelic rebellion is the source of all our troubles
• The Great Tribulation and Armageddon are literal and coming
• God will use the worlds governments to destroy world religion
• The Thousand Year reign is real
• The resurrection is the only hope for the dead on earth
• 144,000 are a literal Heavenly Government
• Satan and his Demons have a finite time to exist and will be terminated

Please Note,

I am not now nor was I ever convinced of everything WTS has said, such as typical/anti-typical this or that or the 'class' catagories like Ezekiel and Jonadab etc. Principles that aren't there. Even how they interpret some prophecies. I don't mind the GB speculating, just don't teach it as fact. I'm happy to consider their opinions and be open to the possibility that they are right. I will not accept or tell anyone that everything that comes from the GB is correct or comes from God. I believe in giving credit where it is due...and I think they deserve a lot. I also believe in putting blame where it belongs. Their scriptural flip-flopping and their social engineering and pride make me both nuts and angry! It's no suprise to me the Witnesses are labeled a 'cult.'

Here is their lastest absurdity:

Oct 15 WT View of The Third Heaven--What a Scream! http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/79724/1.ashx

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