Posts by one_ugly

41

Emotional Terrorism.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

sirona's thread about bullying got me thinking.

there's another type of bullying, which, imho, can be far worse.

i'm talking about psychological bullying, where fear of a persons hysterical reaction forces us to act in manner that fits in with what the person wants.

one_ugly_time

Englishman --

How about outrageously flirting with someone to get what one wants? Or maybe behaving appallingly, then snuggling up to someone, either physically or mentally, so as to avoid the consequences? Should we class that as emotional terrorism?

I often times get confused about whether or not I should worry about the other persons motive, and if they are aware of their behaviors. However, I do believe, that if an individual is able to outrageously flirt then they are quite aware of their behaviors. I recently read the book The Art of Seduction by Robert Greene . This book reveals the escalation of the behavior that an individual will use to spin a subtle but destructive web of confusion, doubt, and feeling of emotional bonding -- when in fact it is all a scripted play to wear down your defenses. If this is the type of individual that you are asking about, then I would say yes, it is emotional terrorism. It is very destructive. In the end, just when you think the relationship is stablizing, the individual will "develop" ticks that are obviously designed to annoy you -- this is an act (as was the entire relationship) so that you are the one to terminate the relationship. These people really exist !

However, I believe this book also describes the "natural" process of "falling in love"; if and when the behaviors are not planned as a manipulative tool. It is a very interesting human interaction study, with descriptions of JFK, Cleopatra, and other well known historical figures who used this technique for both positive and negative reasons.

11

Heart is seed of motivation?

by Coop Man in

quick question, or please someone straighten me out!.

the bible refers to the heart as the seed of motivation.

is this the literal heart?

one_ugly_time

Now I know why I didn't need any education. Those wordly teachers must have been teaching orthodox physiology. LOL

It makes perfect sense to me, since if I didn't have a heart I wouldn't have much motivation. Maybe they discovered this in orthodox biology. As far as the artificial heart goes, maybe it's just becomes artificial motivation, so you end up doing things but never sure why you feel like doing them. Sort of like artificial intelligence, it doesn't really think but it still makes decisions.

25

Are You Emotionally dependent?

by one_ugly_time in

jw
friends

i have been lurking for some time, and have learned an awful lot (most of it awful) about how i was raised... this is a wonderful website... .

i just found newbies!

everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask by jgnat... this is a great thread, which leads to a wealth of information.

one_ugly_time

xenawarrior - Do you know me from a past life? What did I write that warranted that insightful passage?

People who are in that type of situation can grow to expect to be abandoned by others- it becomes an essential part of their belief system.

OK. Everything up to this point explains WHY my expectations are as you described. I couldn't agree more, based upon the studying I have done. What I don't get is how to extract that crap out of me to allow me some freedom.

Out of that, they develop the defense mechanisms necessary to keep the pain away from them and learn to adapt over the years to that which no one should ever have to.

Yes, I recently journaled "I have a super sophisticated super ego, no real ego, and I won't be letting my id come out to play anytime soon". OK, a little too much Frued, but my point was, I was experiencing a wonderful friendship and some imaginary line got crossed and I completely lost control of all emotional and mental functioning. Believe me, it was really no big deal either. It was just an innocent question... I thought it was the end of the relationship if I didn't answer correctly, so... it was ugly.

They may learn to expect very little from others in the way of emotional support and love and that abandonment is inevitable and they have a great deal of proof in their past to support that belief.

I just knew, from that point forward, no matter what I said or did she would be out of my life pretty soon. If not, it was obviously out of pity. So, I vacillated day to day or week to week between smoothering (to see if I would get any support) or running (to prove I wouldn't). My defense mechanisms started shooting like cannons. I couldn't stop them and it obviously confused this individual to the point of leaving. Yes, xenawarrior, very painful.

One of the defense mechanisms they may learn is to push others away first and it's not even something they are doing consciously. When they start becoming close to someone it triggers those abandonment issues and they push the other person away.

Yes... exactly ! It's not till 3 days or maybe 3 months later that I realize what has happened. I will do some deep soul-searching on this issue. I have looked at it, but I don't think enough. Any reading material you could suggest in this area?

Whether the abandonment comes from their own defense mechanisms pushing someone else away or real abandonment by someone else, it's still proof to support the internal belief system which was built over time.

So, after continuously destroying relationships, I give up... I don't even respond to closeness, because, a) I know I will screw it up, and I would rather not. b) I will get defensive and chase them away. c) I will become emotionally dependent and smoother them for reassurances. So, I stick to plan d) just say no. It doesn't matter what the question is, just keep my distance. It usually ends up destroying the friendship anyway, since it becomes stagnant. But, for right now, I don't have to deal with the pain of it being my fault.

Nice to meet you xenawarrior.

41

Emotional Terrorism.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

sirona's thread about bullying got me thinking.

there's another type of bullying, which, imho, can be far worse.

i'm talking about psychological bullying, where fear of a persons hysterical reaction forces us to act in manner that fits in with what the person wants.

one_ugly_time

Lady Lee -

Great explanation. And what a classic line --

"I guess I wasn't such a good mother" <sigh>

When I think of the word confrontation, I think of defending, accusing, demanding, etc. Correct me if I am wrong, but the word that comes to my mind for your examples is more like assertive than confrontation. This may have just hit me upside the head. I tend to waiver between confrontation and submission, which in turn gets interpreted as a passive-aggressive attitude toward resolution.

I was never taught that my feelings where just as valuable as the next persons, so I end up either shunting them entirely; ie; peace-maker, or as I have learned to do less and less, confront someone about my feelings. That situation continues to involve justification, proof, and arguing; all of which I am really tired of.

Reminds of the saying - Say what you mean; Mean what you say; but don't say it mean.

431

Things Learned Along the Way

by blondie in

jw
friends

i have collected sayings, homilies, whatever along the way that crystallize something bigger i learned.

i will post a few every day.

if you have one, please share it.. if you lie down with dogs, you'll get up with fleas.. to belittle is to be little.. somewhere, i got the idea if i just took care of others, i would be taken care of.. blondie

one_ugly_time

Life is difficult.

M. Scott Peck

41

Emotional Terrorism.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

sirona's thread about bullying got me thinking.

there's another type of bullying, which, imho, can be far worse.

i'm talking about psychological bullying, where fear of a persons hysterical reaction forces us to act in manner that fits in with what the person wants.

one_ugly_time

Lady Lee -

Maybe what was in my mind was type of confrontation you had with your father. That is truly tragic. Not only was it invalidation of you as an individual, but it also denied responsibility for the abuse (whether physical, emotional, or both) that occured. I have attempted confrontation a number of times, but the other party invariably denies what is occuring; especially if they know my background, which leaves me vulnerable to emotional uncertainties.

I will keep listening. What I am trying to determine at this point is -- what do people consider confrontation. My experiences have taught me that it can be extremely dangerous, if it is anyway perceived as an attack or a "righting of wrongs". If what is meant by confrontation are statements like "Don't tell me how to feel", "If you want to get to know me better, the 1st thing I want you to know is everytime you interrupt me I get angry"... are these confrontations? or I am being way to sensitive and these are really pathetic ways to respond?

one_ugly_time

41

Emotional Terrorism.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

sirona's thread about bullying got me thinking.

there's another type of bullying, which, imho, can be far worse.

i'm talking about psychological bullying, where fear of a persons hysterical reaction forces us to act in manner that fits in with what the person wants.

one_ugly_time

I recently started a thread about my issue with Emotional Dependence. And I am now seeing virtually everyone take exactly the opposite viewpoint that I got from my studying concerning this issue. It appears nearly unanimously that confronting the "emotional terrorist" is the prefered choice. I guess my problem with this is continuing to be left invalidated after the abuser denies any wrong doing. Or, they simply apologize time after time. It's not fair.

But, I will definitely open my mind up to everyone's comments in this thread. Maybe this lack of ability to handle invalidation is part of my emotional dependence problem, once a relationship does start to get close. I just have a really hard time accepting such behavior from a "friend" or closer, since everything is supposedly built upon trust. And if you don't know when someone is going to use these tactics, how could you ever feel free enough, long enough to trust them.

I suppose we could be considered enablers if we don't confront them. Why allow it to continue?

I disagree. You can't control anyones behavior except your own. Confronting them does not prevent it from continuing. As I see it, set your boundary and decide have far you will let the individual go before taking action (ie walk away, terminate relationship). If the relationship means as much to the other person as it does to you, they will call you and ask, with a listening ear, why you are walking. However, from their perspective, you may be the emotional terrorist, since they are accustomed to such interactions and your walking away "proves" to them that you aren't much of a friend. My 2 1/2 cents.

one_ugly_time

25

Are You Emotionally dependent?

by one_ugly_time in

jw
friends

i have been lurking for some time, and have learned an awful lot (most of it awful) about how i was raised... this is a wonderful website... .

i just found newbies!

everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask by jgnat... this is a great thread, which leads to a wealth of information.

one_ugly_time

Morty --

I feel it means we are doing our job and getting the REAL TRUTH OUT...

As far as the borg goes, I agree whole-heartedly that it is an emotionally destructive environment. That's what really started this thread, SS's statement that we are taught to be emotionally dependent on the borg. Beyond that, I'm of the class that believes that there are no universal truths. Truth is like the 5th dimension. Somehow it's relative to the individual (thus, is affected by relationships) and is definitely affected by time and space. Woa. Hit a sore spot saying that there is a REAL TRUTH. We'll have to discuss that one sometime, also. Thanks Morty, glad to be here.

Special K --

It's interesting how one's comments can lead us on an introspect of ourselves and the reasons we are the way we are. I'm not sure but it kind of sounds like that is what is going on.

The comment SS made only put into words what I have been feeling but didn't know how to express it. I can sense when it occurs, but I have no idea how to handle it. I have felt it for many years, but have only recently gained the awareness of the interpersonal dynamic that occurs. I believe that much of it has to due with the strict adherence to rules, ie, perfectionism. As a result, I am currently on the other end of the spectrum, ie, I'm not doing much right, but I am learning alot.

Nosferatu --

OK, you've thought about this. What you say makes sense.

Any of these can be changed, and Maxim & Stuff magazines are a good example of this. Tons of men subscribe to these pieces of trash because 1) There are tips to help you with your lovelife, 2) there's other interesting crap in there.

I've never read these magazines. I take it you don't recommend them, however, you say they give good advice ???

When something's not working, the man just figures he needs to expand his romantic ideas, but rarely considers that it's the overall method he's using.

Agreed, men are taught by there fathers and society to "fix" everything. In the end, what you said is exactly my problem. I am considering my overall method -- of communication, of intimacy, of listening, of reflection, of dependency/independency/interdependency, and so on (after all, like you, I'm only a 9 and could retire on an island at anytime, but what fun would that be). The problem arises when I am trying to make changes to existing "character". It's almost like I loose my identity trying to negotiate the closeness/distance issues of a relationship, especially as they move closer.

25

Are You Emotionally dependent?

by one_ugly_time in

jw
friends

i have been lurking for some time, and have learned an awful lot (most of it awful) about how i was raised... this is a wonderful website... .

i just found newbies!

everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask by jgnat... this is a great thread, which leads to a wealth of information.

one_ugly_time

jgnat --

You might enjoy having a neutral third party help you sort out your feelings. Also, I suggest you give yourself time and space to sort things out. You don't have to be a completely emotionally mature person overnight. I do think you can learn to be intimate, just like a kid learns to ride a bicycle. If you take it slow, allow for some scrapes along the way, you can learn to wobble through life like the rest of us.

I've so often heard what I am experiencing called a mid-life crisis, but based on those older than me that I have talked to, this just isn't quite the same.

Sometimes I wish I had full body armor but at the same time, I really want an emotional connection in my life, which, of course requires vulnerability. I am going to try to heed your advice to slow down. I have been experiencing road burns instead of scrapes. I do have a counselor who accepts me. He is basically saying that I am in a re-parenting phase. It must be helping, because I am starting to open up but the wounds are more like deep cuts. Thanks.

CountryGirl --

Everything you said is so accurate. It has taken me a long time to realize this, and I still can't put it into words like you did. Especially the superior attitude, socially inept, and emotionally retarded. I have read the ACOA book and it definitely applies. I am looking into joining one of those 12 step programs. I'm not sure what I would say or do there, but I need to do something to get some momentum back. I trust that it does get better. Like I told jgnat, I'll try to slow down. I guess I keep looking for the blue pill. It doesn't work like that in real life. Thanks

41

Emotional Terrorism.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

sirona's thread about bullying got me thinking.

there's another type of bullying, which, imho, can be far worse.

i'm talking about psychological bullying, where fear of a persons hysterical reaction forces us to act in manner that fits in with what the person wants.

one_ugly_time

Emotional Blackmail, Susan Forward

Great book for understanding the dynamics of relationships that involve these types of people.

I would also recommend Emotional Unavailability : Recognizing It, Understanding It, and Avoiding Its Trap by Bryn C. Collins . This book helped me round out the big picture.

I wonder what the proper way to handle such a person would be? Confront them? Continue to tiptoe?

Stacy : It's been my experience that you can't confront people like that. They are either living in denial or they are choosing to live that way, for whatever reason. In either case, I don't believe you can help change them or their behaviors unless they make a conscious effort to do so. Emotional boundaries are very difficult to establish, but once you do, the other person then has the responsibility to either recognize them and discuss the issues or they will ignore them. If they ignore them, then, as Lady Lee said --

The best thing to do was to walk away.

As far as tiptoeing -- Another good book that discusses this issue is Stop Walking on Eggshells; Coping When Someone You Care about Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Paul T. Mason , Randi Kreger , Larry J. Siever

one_ugly_time

Posts by one_ugly_time