Posts by seattleniceguy

34

WT Run By Out Of Touch Old Men? Proof!

by metatron in

jw
friends

take a good look at ezekiel's post regarding the district convention's talk on behavior at meetings and note the.

society's complaint that too much gum chewing and paper rustling is going on.

kids, they note, have been observed.

Hello Everyone . . .(Questions)

by Frobrisher in

this is my first post here, though i have been browsing these forums over the last week for more than a few hours.

in the interest of full discloser, well as much as anyone would on a public forum, i?ll tell you about me.

i was raised as a witness, and have no real horror stories to tell.

seattleniceguy

Hey Frobisher,

But just as in your illustration, doesn't God want us to become something, and if we don't he draws away from us? Or does God love everyone no matter what you become? In that case, no need for Armageddon, things are the way God intended?

I would submit that a loving God would not be as petty as the father in my illustration. God's intention is that we grow, not that we fit into a particular narrowly defined box.

For the record, however, my views on God are agnostic.

I would also submit that the Judeo-Christian concepts of God are based on unhealthy parent-child relationships.

Just some food for thought.

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52

Hello Everyone . . .(Questions)

by Frobrisher in

this is my first post here, though i have been browsing these forums over the last week for more than a few hours.

in the interest of full discloser, well as much as anyone would on a public forum, i?ll tell you about me.

i was raised as a witness, and have no real horror stories to tell.

Hey jwbot...Sorry to hear about your experiences. And I agree with your statement that normal people can hardly believe the shunning policy. I've told a few people about it, and they are truly blown away. "How could someone possibly put a religion before their family?" they ask in shock.

Also, I have an unconditional crush on your avatar...

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52

Hello Everyone . . .(Questions)

by Frobrisher in

this is my first post here, though i have been browsing these forums over the last week for more than a few hours.

in the interest of full discloser, well as much as anyone would on a public forum, i?ll tell you about me.

i was raised as a witness, and have no real horror stories to tell.

seattleniceguy

Oh, and just a quick suggestion since you mentioned having your post "eaten"...when you write a long post, you might want to select all and copy it all to the clipboard before submitting, so that if something goes wrong you haven't lost it. I've lost more than one post before, and man, it can be irrititating! :-)

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52

Hello Everyone . . .(Questions)

by Frobrisher in

this is my first post here, though i have been browsing these forums over the last week for more than a few hours.

in the interest of full discloser, well as much as anyone would on a public forum, i?ll tell you about me.

i was raised as a witness, and have no real horror stories to tell.

seattleniceguy

Hey Frobrisher,

I wanted to see if different points of view were accepted, or if it had a one track mind of it's own

Different views most certainly are accepted. Sometimes they generate strong reactions, but hey, that's what community discourse is all about.

I just wanted to respond a bit to your points on unconditional love. When a friend first started telling me that the Witness culture is based on conditional love, I said exactly the same thing as you. But I've since learned much more about psychological and emotional health, and what exactly conditional love is. Conditional love as practiced among the Witnesses is inhibitive of growth at the best, and manipulative at the worst. Now, mind you, true unconditional love is very rare. I'm not saying the Witnesses are the only group that practice this - sadly, many fit the bill. It is also a cycle that passes itself down in the broader culture.

To illustrate the problems with conditional love, imagine a father that is a lawyer. From the time his son is very young, he makes it clear that he expects his son to follow in his footsteps. He rewards the son when the son plays "junior lawyer." As his son enters high school, the father tries to discourage the son from pursuits that might distract from his eventually becoming a lawyer.

Now let's imagine that the son begins to realize that he has no interest in becoming a lawyer. He wants to be a musician. The father is dismayed. He withdraws the smiling approval. He refuses to pay for college. The son is now faced with an ultimatum: lose the respect and love of my father, or do what I truly want to do. The son knows if he just signs up for that Advanced Placement Debate class, he can have the approval once again, but he begins to resent feeling manipulated in this way.

The sad part of this is that none of it is necessary. The father is selfish to demand his son follow a prescribed path. A truly loving parent would help the child to flourish in whatever field the child was well-suited for. By his actions, the father has subjected the son to emotional pain - who wants to choose between to terrible options in an ultimatum situation, when the situation that caused the ultimatum is entirely man-made and preventable?

In more extreme cases, a person may be under the compulsion of conditional love along many dimensions, such that they do not even realize it. The net effect is that they are compelled into a box that is not tailored to help them grow personally, but to suit the arbitrary whims of the person who supposedly loves them. When you think about the growth prospects of children raised in conditionally loving families, as opposed to unconditionally loving ones, the difference is astounding.

I encourage you to read more on this subject, as it has major implications. One really great book is "The Road Less Traveled," by M. Scott Peck. I think you'll find the first 50 pages fascinating, and they provide a good introduction to human growth and love.

Hope that helps!
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52

Hello Everyone . . .(Questions)

by Frobrisher in

this is my first post here, though i have been browsing these forums over the last week for more than a few hours.

in the interest of full discloser, well as much as anyone would on a public forum, i?ll tell you about me.

i was raised as a witness, and have no real horror stories to tell.

seattleniceguy

Hey there, and welcome.

I won't take up a point-by-point reply, since many have, but let me just say that I do not have any hate in me. That's destructive and certainly takes too much energy to maintain. From time to time I feel angry at the pain the organization's policies cause to real people, and I post here to help others and myself.

You might think of it like a person campaigning for change in the Catholic system that has covered up child abuse. Do they hate the Catholics? Of course not. Are they rightly angered by injustice. Yes. That's the difference.

I hope you stick around for a while. There's a lot to learn here. Plus, every time FrenchBabyFace makes a post you feel like you're getting a kiss.

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51

Are Circuit Overseers Stuck in Their Jobs?

by metatron in

jw
friends

during a recent c.o.

visit, the latest itinerant from the society seemed a bit subdued as he talked about the difficulties.

of his employment.

seattleniceguy

LOL @ Czar!

51

Are Circuit Overseers Stuck in Their Jobs?

by metatron in

jw
friends

during a recent c.o.

visit, the latest itinerant from the society seemed a bit subdued as he talked about the difficulties.

of his employment.

seattleniceguy

When I was in the last throes of my Witnesshood, I remember thinking, briefly, "I can't leave because then my roommates will move out, and I can't afford not to split the rent with someone." I immediately recognized this as dishonest - to believe something because of financial incentives - and thankfully took the right course. But I can understand and empathize with COs whose fear over their financial future may prevent them from being honest with themselves. Sometimes we can repress stuff for reasons like that, without us ever realizing it.

I once told one C.O. he would make a really good salesman, if wanted to leave.

That's great! I wonder if that's what he's doing now. I bet he fondly thinks of you now and then. :)

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29

Who Is God?

by Den in

god is life (john 5:26).

god is truth (john 17:3).

god is eternal (psalms 90:2).

seattleniceguy

Hey Den, nice to have you on board. You might find it more enjoyable to discuss issues and see things from other viewpoints. That's what a community is for!

Hope you stick around for a while.

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16

evolution VS. creation

by doogie in

jw
friends

hey guys,.

what do you think: evolution or creation?

for those of you who believe in evolution, what are some good resources on the subject?

seattleniceguy

To carry on in the spirit of funkyderek...This is mostly for the benefit of those who have not yet availed themselves of TalkOrigins.org.

If evolution is predetermined than it is just a change of states of a gene pool. No different than water boiling or freezing.

Not sure what you're driving at. Evolution is definined as changes in the gene pool, whether or not it is predetermined. In that it is a fact of the natural world, yes, it is no different than water freezing or boiling.

Directed evolution is No different than creation if you reach your goal. If you fail then maybe it could be considered evolution.

Perhaps you feel that evolution must by definition rule out intelligence. This is not the case. Evolution is simply the name for changes in genes in a population. This definitely happens. There are other theories to describe why and how exactly it happens, but they only try to explain evolution. Regardless of whether there's a man in the sky pulling strings or not, it's still evolution.

Unless I have been out of the loop too long genetic change is not considered evolution by most scientist.

Genetic change is the very foundation of evolution. Evolution does not occur except by genetic change.

Lamarckian evolution it is funny that you would stretch to loop it in here. If I am so wrong why put your self out on a limb. You might as well have said cosmic evolution.

I don't understand what you're driving at here. The failure of Lamarckian evolution has nothing to do with whether or not evolution occurs. It is simply an example of one mechanism by which it definitely does not occur.

I assumed we were talking about some form of Darwinian based evolution that is undirected and due to natural means causes one specise to become another over time, not gene pool fluctuations caused by anything be it God, Man, Space aleins, Time travelers, or Natural processes.

That's just the point: evolution is simply a change in gene pools over time, which results in new species, and such speciation has been observed. Natural selection, genetic drift, flush-founder, etc, are simply theories about the mechanisms by which evolution takes place. You could add God or Space Aliens to that list of mechanisms if you could produce compelling evidence. But that wouldn't change the basic fact that evolution is a natural process.

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