Randy,
Incredible video ... except for the 'name' of the group, it sounds like anything the JWs, Mormons, Adventists, and some Bible Student groups could have produced ... well, I will skip the 'packet' this time around.
Amazing
JoinedPosts by Amazing
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Restored Worldwide Church of God - Watchtower in 12 years
by Dogpatch inthis is the watchtower media dept.
in 12 years, after they lose their minds and start killing their members.. then splinter sects will form, based on the degree of corporate punishment each sect believes in.. some will still kill their errant children.. others will believe in spanking and forcing all meeting attendance,.
and finally, there will be those, prodded by the holy spirit, who renounce all physical contact with other people, preferring punishment by various eye signals.
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Radical Acceptance
by MsBHaving inanyone have any thoughts on this concept.. radical acceptance practice allows us to unearth the very root causes of so much of our emotional angst and suffering.. radical acceptance is a way of saying yes to each and every moment mindfully.
if we can radically accept that we wont always be accepted or liked by others and that life is full of challenges, for example, we can clear the pathway from the power of rejection and negative experience and/or thoughts and how we may have experienced them as severing our belonging.
we can then make way for much more positive thoughts and feelings.
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Amazing
Buddhism is more of an old philosophy of living life than a religion as we know it in the west. It was founded by Siddhartha Gautama circa 425 BC. He later became known as the Buddha. Many universities now teach courses in eastern religions as part of the 'rounding out' process, especially in business courses because of globalization. I find that Buddhism is a good philosophy, and can mesh on many levels with Christianity ... though on specifics regarding God and salvation, Buddhism is not entirely compatible. George Lucas follows Buddhist teachings, and mixed a lot of it into his movie series, Star Wars. While it is technically a religion, it is more about humanity than God ... more of a philosophy than a code of cannon beliefs.
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It's not the same to make NEW FRIENDS, I want to keep my OLD FRIENDS - Am I right?
by BonaFide ini appreciate all the advice on here about making friends outside the organization.. i am making new friends, both at work and at school.. but it's not the same as old friends.. my old friends i grew up with.
i sometimes go to the movies with them, dumb movies.
like that night at the museum, smithsonian one.
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BF,
I did both ... First, I got my family out of the JW organization, then I rekindled friendships I had prior to becoming a JW, and then, I helped out a couple of old JW friends, and then, also made new friends from among ex-JWs and never-JWs. It takes time ... but life goes on, and eventually new friends become old friends. My lifelong best friend - a Southern Baptist - showed great care and understanding when I left the JWs. We have been friends for 54 years in spite of our religious differences. I am Catholic, but our friendship transcends these differences.
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The FIVE questions that elders consider whether to form a judicial committee for an inactive person
by BonaFide inthis is according to the pay attention to the flock book.
i can't remember the page.
i handled this situation a number of times but i may have missed a detail, these are the basics i am pretty sure.
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Awwww ... Chickpea ... I like epic length material ... can you share a summary of what you sent to BF?
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Did the WT ever show prejudice against black people?
by jambon1 init has come to my attention that there was a time when the wt magazine or some other wt.
publication actually printed an article(s) relating to black people being 'cursed' or unworthy of gods blessing.. .
if so, is there any reliable copies of this text?.
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Amazing
When I became a JW in 1968, the Society was still discouraging interracial marriages among JWs, especially in the South, where racial prejudice was still a problem. There was an underlying attitude that blacks were not as advanced as whites ... but, then in larger cities, like Chicago, the JWs were known as a 'black people' religion. I have heard of the Society publishing what you mention as well as what "Insearchoftruth" mentioned.
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Radical Acceptance
by MsBHaving inanyone have any thoughts on this concept.. radical acceptance practice allows us to unearth the very root causes of so much of our emotional angst and suffering.. radical acceptance is a way of saying yes to each and every moment mindfully.
if we can radically accept that we wont always be accepted or liked by others and that life is full of challenges, for example, we can clear the pathway from the power of rejection and negative experience and/or thoughts and how we may have experienced them as severing our belonging.
we can then make way for much more positive thoughts and feelings.
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Amazing
Radical Acceptance has some roots in Buddhism. I find it to be just another label for long standing advice to face reality, and roll with the punches. An interesting web site for radical Acceptance is: http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/radical_acceptance.html
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Why does WT likes so much to use Ancient Israel?Do they really follow that?
by JustHuman14 inwe all know the obsescion of the wt using israel.
god's people did this and that so we are the new "chosen"ones like isreal and we follow the same example.. here are some things that the old israel was doing and the wt does not:.
1.circumciscion, from the 8th day of the child.
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Amazing
Just,
There are a number of reasons that various denominations look to Israel for insight and help in determining what is done under Christianity. The old Law was fulfilled by Jesus death, and Christians are not bound by it. But, the premise, example, and aspects of the faith that are not governed by the law are still useful and valid to consider. Unfortunately, the Watchtower Society uses Israel when it is convenient, and discards Israel when it is not convenient.
To your points:
1. Circumcision was abolished for Christians as a requirement ... the Book of Acts specifically dealt with this issue. On this, the JWs are correct.
2. Israel did not have a paid 'clergy' in the same manner as we have today. The JWs have a paid 'clergy' but it starts at the CO level and goes up from there. They simply do not have paid local clergy. In Israel, the Priests and High Priest worked full time at the temple, and were compensated for their work. There is nothing dishonorable in either system ... volunteer or paid. It is the JW organization that makes an issue of something that is not an issue. They do it to make themselves look good in their own eyes.
3. Israel had an army because Israel was a nation among nations. Christians are not a nation, and live in all different countries. The closest is Vatican City, which is a recognized nation ... the seat of Catholicism ... and it has a military called the Swiss Guard. The Pope is head of state. So, if the Watchtower were to build its own city in an area where it was allowed to become a nation, it would likely have some means of police or military protection.
The security boys at Bethel used to carry firearms to protect Watchtower assets ... until one day one of the boys misfired his gun and shot up a giant roll of printing paper ... then the guns went out. The Watchtower is no different than anyone else ... they just talk a good game ... its all just quack-quack, talk-talk.
The Watchtower believes that they are different because they are now the bearers of the torch passed down in the long line-up of the spiritual race that makes them the chosen ones ... first Israel (they lost it), then the early Christians (they lost it) and then various little groups (not proven, but they failed to mature), then Chuck Russell (and he died) and then it was Rutherford (he died), and then the Governing Body. They are, of course, full of bovine excrement; but hey, they are not the first to fancy themselves this way, and will not be the last.
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Phrases NOT to say if you are in a judicial committee meeting for apostasy
by BonaFide ini have only been on a couple of committee's for actual apostasy, and in one the brother never showed, and in the other, the person said they don't want to be a witness.
but in having experience as an elder and a c.o., and in reading this forum, here are my suggestions.. do not say:.
"i don't believe that the faithful and discreet slave is god's channel" - why not?
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BonaFide,
So its a delicate catwalk to show you are humble, sorry for whatever possible mistakes, respect for the Organization, but not admitting to apostasy while at the same time not being rebellious.
Agreed. Maybe you would like to read my exit story which is now hosted at: http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/partintro.htm I will one day add to the story to include a couple of chapters on my testimony on behalf of JW abuse victims.
I spent a number of years avoiding the Elders and being careful while serving in the congregation ... and once I had my family all out, then I let the house or cards collapse ... so you have made some good points ... and it all boils down to what each individual feels that he/she can do at the time. Some ex-JWs feel strongly about leaving and not hiding behind a facade, while others are very careful not to be identified while they continue to operate in the congregation, hoping to find a good time to leave. One of the ways that ex-JWs get some good inside material is through disaffected JWs still operating on the inside of the organization ... you should have seen the look on the Bethel attorney's face when during a deposition, we popped out the Watchtower corporation meeting minutes that were supposed to be confidential, and submitted them for evidence ... what lampoonery ... and yes, it was damn funny.
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The FIVE questions that elders consider whether to form a judicial committee for an inactive person
by BonaFide inthis is according to the pay attention to the flock book.
i can't remember the page.
i handled this situation a number of times but i may have missed a detail, these are the basics i am pretty sure.
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Amazing
BonaFide,
Anyway, in my experience, some elders really push for a judicial committee, and others don't.
Yes, and in recent years, there has been a greater tendency to push for a JC. I watched the change over the years from the 1960s onward. But, after Ray Franz published his book, Crisis of Conscience, in 1983, the trend to fear and fight 'apostasy' increased dramatically ... and this had a spill-over affect upon all other transgressions. So, depending on which CO came to town, we were either instructed to leave someone alone as in your example, or the next CO was urging us to go after the sinners and clean them out. I recall being on one JC where we DF'd someone by telephone for the eact offence you describe. And in one case, a sister was DF'd for simply being an unloving and difficult person, and many in the congregation were angry with her for some reason.
The problem with much of the organizational system is that COs and DOs are inconsistent in their advice and direction ... and this, among many other things, helped me see that something was very wrong with the JW religion. And, saddest of all, is that the Holy Spirit was never with the JWs in the first place.
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Phrases NOT to say if you are in a judicial committee meeting for apostasy
by BonaFide ini have only been on a couple of committee's for actual apostasy, and in one the brother never showed, and in the other, the person said they don't want to be a witness.
but in having experience as an elder and a c.o., and in reading this forum, here are my suggestions.. do not say:.
"i don't believe that the faithful and discreet slave is god's channel" - why not?
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Amazing
BonaFide,
You stated,"For some this is a pretty funny subject. But for some like myself, who have so many family and friends in that we want to rescue, it's a serious deal. Once the elders want to form a judicial committee with you, you better be ready."
We are mostly a very experience bunch of people on this forum ... and sometimes injecting a little humor helps to cope with an otherwise damn serious situation. My first post on page 1 of this thread was of a more serious nature ... if you read my exit story, you will see what I went though in dealing with JCs ... my second posting above went along with some humor. My brother, who was in the middle of a war zone called Viet Nam, said that at their camps it was much like the TV show M.A.S.H ... they had to have humor just to survive daily life threatening combat.
While some of us rely on humor ... we are no less committed to the serious aspects of dealing with the Society ... most of us have learned long ago what to say and not say to Elders, or even fellow JWs, and how to manipulate the system enough to try and fade away when it is safe to do so ... but have also learned that while the Elders love TV, and want to go home, they will go the extra mile to weed out what they think are apostates ... and, in the end, it is almost impossible to fade out entirely without getting some scars in dealing with the Elders.