while out for my usual liquid lunch, a cup of new englands finest pee week coffee and a pack of grape bubble yumm..... a thought accured to me.. i'm a die hard avid x-files fan.. i can relate to mulder.
i can definately relate to that busty red head partner of his, scully.. my thought was this..... in the last 10 months of digging into wt stuff and opening my eyes to the wretched viel of hypocrisy i've been lead by all my life..... am i really that much different than mulder?
seeking "truth", looking for the hidden agendas, and conspiricys?.
Lol! Add me to that list of avid X-Philes---have been since season one. Got every episode on tape and have seen each several-to-a-dozen times. Even visited location shoots during filming of FtF around So Cal. "The Truth Is Out There and "I Want to Believe" both always struck me as to how ironically it reflected my JW existence as well as Mulder's search.
Perhaps Brooklyn has some hardcore devotees as well: "Trust No One," "Deny Everything," "Believe the Lie."
-AMNESIAN
someone very nice (alan f) passed this on to me late friday and i did not have the opportunity to pass it on to you.. if any of you guys have been following my un thread (which is now very tough to find thanks to the changes in the board) you may have noticed the 1994 un directory.
it provided three names on page 261 that were linked with the wts's name.
one person was w. l. barry (at the time he was the vice president).
Hawkaw,
Of course!
-AMNESIAN
someone very nice (alan f) passed this on to me late friday and i did not have the opportunity to pass it on to you.. if any of you guys have been following my un thread (which is now very tough to find thanks to the changes in the board) you may have noticed the 1994 un directory.
it provided three names on page 261 that were linked with the wts's name.
one person was w. l. barry (at the time he was the vice president).
Listen Amensian,
I was out of line. You are right I should wait and conduct a proper investigation of the "individual" prior to slaming him anymore. Much like what I did with the blood doctrine that clearly shows there is culpable homicide going on here. Who is responsible. I don't know but I know it is hurting this organization and its members.
My own horror knows no bounds at the thought that I at one time held the no-blood doctrine as scriptural. I often wonder what accountability any of us misguided souls may suffer before Jehovah for having taught and ensnared others, to say nothing of the deaths to which such teachings have contributed as a result of the WTS's botched interpretation and criminal arrogance. Are there some of the heavyweights in Brooklyn who know this doctrine is in error and still support it? It's nearly unfathomable and yet most of what I've come to learn about this organization is unfathomable.
One would think that Mr. Johnston must have known the score when he signed up as the alternative representative and he may have thought it just wasn't a big deal even though 1,000s in Malawi Africa may seem to differ. But you are right. One must wait and get all the facts prior to unleashing a serious accusation.
RP is very bright/thoughtful and, even in defense of the person I recall him to be, I cannot seriously construct any scenario whereby he was not fully cognizant of the extreme seriousness such a course represents. Though it certainly places him in no better or exonerating light, I would more easily wonder if he has not found himself---older and with far fewer options than even 10 years ago--- promoted to a place wherein he's succumbed to deafening fears and insecurity that, of necessity, drown out the bellow of his conscience. I don't know. Like I said above, I've often wondered how the man I perceived, knowing now what he must surely know, can still be involved with this organization.
I apologize to you and the board for sounding "strawman". I should have waited, like you said for the facts of this specific individual prior to slaming him.As for simple black and white thinking. No I don't think in black and white. Never have. Sometimes I just don't have a lot of time to give or read things like last nights' post or this morning's post - Yet it is still no excuse as to what I said. But I am willing to listen. If I make a mistake I will admit it as I have here. I have listened to you and agree.
This sounds more like the Hawkaw whose posts in the UN threads I've followed. Thank you for making the effort to hear what I'm saying, even when I'm not saying it as tactfully and respectfully as you or anyone else deserves.
But I am not on any high horse or want thunderous applause. I would prefer people like you recognizing, gaining and enjoying freedom and honesty any day of the week over over applause.
And you will please accept my apology for this jab. In all of your posts in the UN threads, you've been very generous in acknowledging others' comments and contributions and reasonable in your discussions. I was angered in this thread by your suggestions regarding RP and was/am even more hurt and disappointed by the prospect that you might be correct that RP has sold out. I get pissy with each additional step I take toward the total loss of faith in everyone and everything I've known and believed for over half my life. Not your fault, I'm in so very much pain in my life it's become kneejerk on my part.
Please accept my apologizes Amesian and you too, Mr. Johnston.
One other thing, Amnesian - I know of only one other person who uses the
word "monolith"
-AMNESIAN
someone very nice (alan f) passed this on to me late friday and i did not have the opportunity to pass it on to you.. if any of you guys have been following my un thread (which is now very tough to find thanks to the changes in the board) you may have noticed the 1994 un directory.
it provided three names on page 261 that were linked with the wts's name.
one person was w. l. barry (at the time he was the vice president).
I didn't say he was a wicked person. You did.
Read what I actually said.
You said he was "compassionate", not me. My point on "compassion" is simple.
In your world lots of things seem simple. At least the ones you bring to JWD. I envy you and your world. And I don't mean that facetiously.
Compassionate people in positions of power don't let innocent little children needlessly die.
I have no desire or intention of taking issue with such an emotionally-weighted, sanctimonious battle cry.
What I will say is that in your zeal to slather everything and everyone related to the WTS with the same venomous brush, you tend to get a bit sloppy. Time and again I read here by those who claim to be in the know that there are those in Brooklyn who are mightily conflicted in their loyalties and consciences over the dire direction(s) this organization has embarked on. Until confronted with indicting evidence to the contrary, I am able to believe that the RP Johnson I knew many years ago just may be one of them. Break it down into small pieces and see if you can get that.
Oh BTW I completely understand my employer and if he/she steps out of line I have followed my ethics under my Professional licence and done what has been needed to be done.
Bully for you. I don't suppose, then, that your employer happens to hold the deed to absolutely every aspect, real and imagined, of your and your wife's lives---past, present, and any future---, everything from when and whether you eat to how you will survive in your pension-less old age? Before you take flight from there, I do not, do not in any way, feel that such circumstances justify a knowing and willful violation of human rights and ethics and decency. I am just saying that some are able to imagine how good and decent men and women can find themselves unwittingly to have gradually become mired and trapped on the wrong side of complex issues. (Though regarding a much less egregious circumstance, one of my favorite movies, "Quiz Show" comes to mind---check it if you don't already know it) Again, not all of us are blessed to live our lives in the simple, black and white world you apparently inhabit.
As for hating the WTS. I don't hate the WTS but I dislike the people who knowingly know what is going on in doctrines like in the blood doctrine. They know it is wrong but are letting it continue. That is culpable homicide. Ye sthe guy is a nice guy and yes you are right about the problems in being in a cult. But these people in positions of power, nice or not, need to be held accountable for their actions.
Regardless of who RP was or is, if he is in fact now one of the Brooklyn crime bosses, either by his own premeditated decisions and/or actions or by mere compliance out of his own fear and/or self-preservation instincts, he is still morally reprehensible and must be held accountable. That said, I doubt it would muffle your thundering JWD ovation if you were to take a more balanced approach when dealing with specific WTS individuals by name as opposed to no-harm-no-foul vilifying of the WTS "monolith" when making such vile accusations. At least until you get the goods on the individual under investigation.
-AMNESIAN
someone very nice (alan f) passed this on to me late friday and i did not have the opportunity to pass it on to you.. if any of you guys have been following my un thread (which is now very tough to find thanks to the changes in the board) you may have noticed the 1994 un directory.
it provided three names on page 261 that were linked with the wts's name.
one person was w. l. barry (at the time he was the vice president).
......extremely bright ........ eh .....
Nice guy ..... eh ....... compassionate .... eh ...
If he is so nice and compassionate and in a position of power, why is he letting little Children needlessly bleed to death?Compassionate people don't let little children needlessly die and put little children ahead of a corporation.
Slow yo' roll, Hawk,
Climb off your high horse. Am I mistaken or did you post somewhere around here that you were never a JW? If true, no matter what efforts you've contributed to this UN-NGO thing, you have absolutely no (as in nada, zip, zilch, zero) clue about being a JW, much less about struggling to balance your conscience against your desire to believe that the organization represents Jehovah.
So what, we're lying about the kind of person we perceived RP to be? We're fans, groupies of his and cannot see how wicked RP is?
Get over yourself. I know this UN thing is your Rose Parade float, but, I'm telling you the man I knew and I'm no chump in the character judging department. You've provided nothing in the way of evidence that dispels that for me. I can't defend who he is today cause I don't still know him, but I do know that, at their core, most adults have a harder time passing a kidney stone than changing who they are.
Surely, in your lather against the WTS (for whatever mysterious reason a never-been-a-JW has such!), you're not so naive as to suppose that anyone, even WTS loyalists, perceives his world and lives his life from a purely black or white perspective. RP may be a rotten, sellout scoundrel for the WTS by now. Otoh, he might be a godly, ethical man who is deeply conflicted and wishes for the organization (and himself) a way out of its own miseries and missteps.
Tell me, have you so investigated your employer that you confidently endorse its integrity in all matters crucial to you? Do you continue to work for it because you are convinced of that integrity?
Geez. Give me an intercoursing break.
-AMNESIAN
someone very nice (alan f) passed this on to me late friday and i did not have the opportunity to pass it on to you.. if any of you guys have been following my un thread (which is now very tough to find thanks to the changes in the board) you may have noticed the 1994 un directory.
it provided three names on page 261 that were linked with the wts's name.
one person was w. l. barry (at the time he was the vice president).
This photo is from the January 15, 2001 WT. It is one of two very recent photos of him to appear in the literature. I cannot recall the other. RP is the elder, obviously:
RP served as CO back in So Cal in early 70s. Extremely bright, genuinely humble and down-to-earth. A soft-spoken, compassionate and discreet counselor who related to and interacted with the friends as one of their brothers and not as one who felt superior or entitled. A speaker you could listen to for hours without checking your watch. No matter how many years passed between your last encounters, he'd always greet you by name and ask about your children by name. If you responded that the "child" had been disfellowshipped, he'd make it a point to say "Make sure to tell him/her I asked about him/her." This is no exaggeration. Believe me, most of the COs I've known over the years have been anal cavities whom I only barely tolerated. RP was the exception, a redwood among mere sprouts.
Grace: Shy, sweet, quiet. A lovely, lovely woman.
We last saw them (for the first time in over 20 years) a few years ago and neither seemed to have changed. I know he is considered an organization heavy now, but can't help but wonder whether and to what degree he's been affected by the pharisaic direction the organization has pursued.
JT apparently knew RP very well and more recently than we, from his stint at Bethel. Perhaps when he spots this thread and has time he will grace us with more of his keen (and hysterically witty!) insights and recollections.
-AMNESIAN
i see recurring references in various posts.
what is it and what has it to do with the wts?.
reply here, email, and/or links very much appreciated.. -amnesian
Thanks very much blondie and nelly for big and speedy help.
-AMNESIAN
i see recurring references in various posts.
what is it and what has it to do with the wts?.
reply here, email, and/or links very much appreciated.. -amnesian
I see recurring references in various posts. What is it and what has it to do with the WTS?
Reply here, email, and/or links very much appreciated.
-AMNESIAN
during the baptism talk in a recent assembly the co delivering the talk apparently made this statement:.
'you have often been warned about bad association outside the congregation - we want to warn you about bad association within the congregation.
some might approach you with misinformation about jw's they have picked up from enemies of the truth and try to confuse you do not listen to them talk to your elders about them.'.
rem, currently reading 1984
So am I. Re-reading it, that is. Certainly resonates differently now after spending over half my life in a truly Orwellian world than it did back when I first read it in college.
HS, thank you for the bulletin.
-AMNESIAN
during the baptism talk in a recent assembly the co delivering the talk apparently made this statement:.
'you have often been warned about bad association outside the congregation - we want to warn you about bad association within the congregation.
some might approach you with misinformation about jw's they have picked up from enemies of the truth and try to confuse you do not listen to them talk to your elders about them.'.
The CO giving the baptism talk anywhere, much less a CA? Are you certain? Never seen it.
-AMNESIAN
