Below is the most recent in a lengthy exchange between the elderly Bethel brother who arranged for the setting up and hosting of WatchtowerFarm.Org and an initially-suspicious inquirer.
The entire exchange that precedes it is heartbreakingly illuminating as regards the tragic plight of elderly Bethelites who've devoted their lives to the WBTS and should, imo, be disseminated far and wide. Although the Bethel brother has left it up to his inquirer's judgement as to whether or not to have me post it on this board, because I fear it might cause him and his wife and friends even more anguish and harrassment, I cannot conscientiously agree to do so, at least for the present.
I, on my own, however, have decided to post the following --against my better judgement and without having obtained permission of the participating parties. I may wind up regretting doing so, but, hopefully, it will staunch some of the sad damage being done.
AMNESIAN
---------------
Inquirer:
Thank you Brother ________ for your [agreeing] to my request to post our exchange. Your words have touched me deeply and I thank you for sharing them with me. I do believe that they can have an impact on others if allowed to read them. You, understandably, are quite out of touch with the depth of disaffection and disillusionment that also afflicts Jehovah's Witnesses in general who are beyond the hallowed boundaries of Bethel properties.
Despite your own fearlessness, I do not think it wise for you, your wife and other older friends, at this stage in your lives and in your precarious circumstances, to incur the wrath of the WBTS leadership who has shown itself to be mercilessly vindictive toward those who disagree or merely question. For that reason I have considered it prudent to edit out your name and specific work on the farm you do, that is, with your permission.
Please take your time and review the following. If it meets with your approval, let me know and I will have it posted. If there are changes you wish to be made, feel free to indicate them. Although you apparently do not realize it, what you have written is of the utmost interest (especially your last message regarding the foregoing of having children) to vast numbers of Jehovah's Witnesses and should be circulated. But, again, not at your peril and only with your permission, sir.
Do forgive my continuing to pester you.
With deepest respect.
---------------
WatchtowerFarm.Org:
Brother _______, it seems that the members of the Jehovah's Witness community or ex-Jehovah's Witnesses community are doggedly pursuing if we are genuine or not. Now someone has found the name and email address of the woman who helped us put up this website and she is being harrassed.
I have heard of people being curious, but that someone would go so far is beyond me.
As you know, we have very little money and to sell online is not cheap. You have to have a paypal account and even the website costs money each month. Besides that, every sale we make a percentage of that goes to the host website or some such entity. Anyway, this woman made arrangements with her daughter who lives in New York City for us to have a website of hers that she got cheap through eBay. She is paying the cost of the website each month and she is also paying for paypal and some other stuff. We are making less than $1.00 for each book sold, but we would surely reimburse her if we made any money to speak of.
Anyway, they are acusing her of being us. She is upset and does not know how to respond. I can't take this stress anymore and she certainly does not deserve this. She just tried to do us a favor. She offered it to us in the spirit of love and helpfulness and I cannot let her take abuse. I think it would be best if I just closed the website and put a stop to all of this.
I suppossed that witnesses are so used to being fooled that they think everyone is doing it.
We don't know where they found her name and email address, but it is just too much.
I will always remember your kindness, but I am just a tired old man who for a moment thought I had an idea to change my life. Oh, well......
AMNESIAN
JoinedPosts by AMNESIAN
-
42
Long-Time Bethelites Organizing To Leave Headquarters!
by bjc2read inthe following link shows there are serious problems stirring at bethel headquarters for the watchtower society.
it appears, many long-time bethelites are organizing to leave headquarters!
here is the link,.
-
-
AMNESIAN
-
8
WatchtowerFarm.Org: JWs and Ex-JWs Continue Destroying Their Wounded!
by AMNESIAN inbelow is the most recent in a lengthy exchange between the elderly bethel brother who arranged for the setting up and hosting of watchtowerfarm.org and an initially-suspicious inquirer.
(for background see: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/95848/1.ashx)
the entire exchange that precedes it is heartbreakingly illuminating as regards the tragic plight of elderly bethelites who've devoted their lives to the wbts and should, imo, be disseminated far and wide.
-
-
AMNESIAN
Below is the most recent in a lengthy exchange between the elderly Bethel brother who arranged for the setting up and hosting of WatchtowerFarm.Org and an initially-suspicious inquirer. (For background see: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/95848/1.ashx) The entire exchange that precedes it is heartbreakingly illuminating as regards the tragic plight of elderly Bethelites who've devoted their lives to the WBTS and should, imo, be disseminated far and wide. Although the Bethel brother has left it up to his inquirer's judgement as to whether or not to have me post it on this board, because I fear it might cause him and his wife and friends even more anguish and harrassment, I cannot conscientiously agree to do so, at least for the present. I, on my own, however, have decided to post the following --against my better judgement and without having obtained permission of the participating parties. I may wind up regretting doing so, but, hopefully, it will staunch some of the sad damage being done. AMNESIAN --------------- Inquirer: Thank you Brother ________ for your [agreeing] to my request to post our exchange. Your words have touched me deeply and I thank you for sharing them with me. I do believe that they can have an impact on others if allowed to read them. You, understandably, are quite out of touch with the depth of disaffection and disillusionment that also afflicts Jehovah's Witnesses in general who are beyond the hallowed boundaries of Bethel properties. Despite your own fearlessness, I do not think it wise for you, your wife and other older friends, at this stage in your lives and in your precarious circumstances, to incur the wrath of the WBTS leadership who has shown itself to be mercilessly vindictive toward those who disagree or merely question. For that reason I have considered it prudent to edit out your name and specific work on the farm you do, that is, with your permission. Please take your time and review the following. If it meets with your approval, let me know and I will have it posted. If there are changes you wish to be made, feel free to indicate them. Although you apparently do not realize it, what you have written is of the utmost interest (especially your last message regarding the foregoing of having children) to vast numbers of Jehovah's Witnesses and should be circulated. But, again, not at your peril and only with your permission, sir. Do forgive my continuing to pester you. With deepest respect.
--------------- WatchtowerFarm.Org: Brother _______, it seems that the members of the Jehovah's Witness community or ex-Jehovah's Witnesses community are doggedly pursuing if we are genuine or not. Now someone has found the name and email address of the woman who helped us put up this website and she is being harrassed. I have heard of people being curious, but that someone would go so far is beyond me. As you know, we have very little money and to sell online is not cheap. You have to have a paypal account and even the website costs money each month. Besides that, every sale we make a percentage of that goes to the host website or some such entity. Anyway, this woman made arrangements with her daughter who lives in New York City for us to have a website of hers that she got cheap through eBay. She is paying the cost of the website each month and she is also paying for paypal and some other stuff. We are making less than $1.00 for each book sold, but we would surely reimburse her if we made any money to speak of. Anyway, they are acusing her of being us. She is upset and does not know how to respond. I can't take this stress anymore and she certainly does not deserve this. She just tried to do us a favor. She offered it to us in the spirit of love and helpfulness and I cannot let her take abuse. I think it would be best if I just closed the website and put a stop to all of this. I suppossed that witnesses are so used to being fooled that they think everyone is doing it. We don't know where they found her name and email address, but it is just too much. I will always remember your kindness, but I am just a tired old man who for a moment thought I had an idea to change my life. Oh, well...... -
50
need to vent - just got off phone with mom
by jaredg inman i hate the predicament that this religion has put me in.
i love my mom so much and to hear her cry is the worst thing in the world.
it's so frustrating when she thinks that things are so bad b/c i'm dfd.
-
-
AMNESIAN
willyloman:
Amnesian: What a lovely post! Your words are filled with truth.
You're very kind, love, I know so many of us parents share the same regrets yet deep gratitude for a second chance. I also know that stories like your family's and mine can serve to bolster the resolve of those experiencing despair to hang on when all appears bleak. AMNESIAN
-
50
need to vent - just got off phone with mom
by jaredg inman i hate the predicament that this religion has put me in.
i love my mom so much and to hear her cry is the worst thing in the world.
it's so frustrating when she thinks that things are so bad b/c i'm dfd.
-
-
AMNESIAN
Jared,
Your post reminds me of one I've had in mind for a while now to prepare but have thus far procrastinated.
In the meantime, allow me to say briefly that willyloman's experience is nowhere near as rare as you might suppose among those of us longtime JWs who devoutly reared our children in the "truth."
Based on your age and your experience, your conversation with your mom and the mutual love/torment the two of you are obviously experiencing, I could be your mom; you could be my son...of a few years ago.
In 2001, though, to everyone's shock and utter horror, I snapped out of it, came to my senses, acted on doubts I'd long suppressed. I walked away from my last meeting at a KH after some 29 years as an extremely believing, extremely active and "regular," "exemplary" JW spouse and parent---something neither my husband (still a perfunctorily-active-but-much-less-believing JW), nor my beloved son, nor I could ever have imagined could occur under any possible circumstances.
Despite the nearly-unbearable past we both suffered as a result of WTS dictates, today my son and I have recovered our relationship, now with the added bonus of a wonderful and cherished daughter-in-law, something I'd begun to fear would be lost forever unless, as I cried heartbrokenly to him on more than one occasion, he pursue "reinstatement" and "returned to Jehovah."
Moral to the story, son: Never, ever give up hope and never, ever stop expressing your love to your parents. There are so many of us achingly regretful parents who are more grateful than mere words can express to have the forgiveness of our children for having been so misguided for so long.
AMNESIAN
-
25
The Tobacco Bombshell
by Dogpatch inthe tobacco bombshell
early in the decade of the 70?s, all jw?s were notified (in the tobacco-growing district) of a special meeting at the kingdom hall.
three representatives from wts, a district overseer and two circuit overseers delivered a symposium that brought an abrupt end for all jw?s working in the tobacco industry (whether selling cigarettes, manufacture, tobacco machinery, etc.
-
-
AMNESIAN
Powerful, sad and shocking. Thank you for posting this, Randy.
I vividly recall what a jolt of self-righteous specialness and holy-spirit-directed warmth electrified our JW community with the announcement of the new no-tobacco edict that night at the Service Meeting.
Amazingly (and shamefully, I'm now feeling), it is while reading this wrenching personal account, that I realize how compliance with this "new light" so tragically impacted a certain segment of JWs of whom I had absolutely no awareness in my brand-spanking, just-dried-off daze as a thoroughly-devoted new believer.
Because the area in which we served our time as JWs was 100% metropolitan/suburban, nicotine withdrawal and the possible jeopardizing of certain kinds of retail employment were pretty much the extent of dire consequences suffered by the few we knew of affected at all, I am stricken to my core by what you present here. I simply had no idea and have never, until now, learned anything that exposed how abusively this "adjustment" was executed against those whose livelihood depended on the tobacco industry.
"Bombshell!" indeed, in more ways than one: violently destructive for its victims and eye-opening for the uninformed.
Again, thanks for posting.
AMNESIAN -
60
No-Blood Card No Longer Issued/Dated Annually
by AMNESIAN indecember 2003 our kingdom ministry for the usa
"provisions to help us abstain from blood"
"baptized publishers who have previously completed an advance medical directive/release card or identity card with no print date or a 3/99 print date will not need to complete a new one this year.
-
-
AMNESIAN
December 2003 Our Kingdom Ministry for the USA "Provisions to Help Us Abstain From Blood" "Baptized publishers who have previously completed an Advance Medical Directive/Release card or Identity Card with no print date or a 3/99 print date will not need to complete a new one this year. For the Service Meeting the week of December 29, the secretary should have available sufficient quantities of the cards for newly baptized publishers, their children, and those needing replacements. Congregations will not be sent a consignment of these items. If the congregations does not have enough cards on hand, the secretary may check with nearby congregations or request more cards with the congregation's next literature request." -------------------- km 1/97 p. 2 Service Meetings for January
20 min: Time to Renew the Advance Medical Directive/Release Card. Qualified elder discusses importance of filling out card completely and carrying it at all times. This document speaks for you if you are unable to speak for yourself in an emergency. (Compare Proverbs 22:3.) A new card needs to be filled out every year to give a current declaration on refusal of blood, since some doctors and others have claimed that documents older than one year may not reflect a person?s current conviction. w84 12/1 p. 25 Your Life, Your Integrity and the Card Christians realize that after an accident they might be unconscious or unable to give a detailed explanation of why they cannot accept blood transfusions. Even if an injured Witness could speak and say that?in line with the principle of informed consent?he did not want blood administered, doctors or hospital personnel might worry that a lawsuit could result if they did not follow standard treatment. So for some years Jehovah?s Witnesses have carried a Medical Alert card. This is a signed, witnessed document that relieves physicians and hospital officials of liability for any complications that might seem to result from knowing about the refusal of blood. A new card is signed and dated each year; thus, the document is always current and valid.
km 6/75 p. 3 Announcements
- New identification cards have been prepared. It is requested that these be issued to all baptized Kingdom publishers. When you issue the new identification cards, please have the publishers return the old ones. The old ones will then be destroyed by the congregations. The identification cards no longer carry a blood-transfusion declaration on the back. A separate card entitled "No Blood Transfusion" has been prepared and those who wish to carry such cards may obtain them through the congregation. These two cards can be ordered by the congregations with the regular literature orders at a rate of two for one cent.
--------------
AMNESIAN
-
22
Why Doesn't The WT. Get Embarrassed When They Talk About The Pharisees?
by minimus in.
one thing that i could never figure out was how the society could rail against the scribes and pharisees and not blink an eye.
what's up with that?
-
-
AMNESIAN
Why not? because their arrogance is unboundless and -- here's a new word -- UNEMBARASSABLE!
Make that two new words .
AMNESIAN
-
7
I bought my daughter a bike
by teejay inthe other day, my daughter and i celebrated her 4th birthday.
it wasnt much of a celebration only because i dont know how to go about celebrating birthdays.
all i knew to do was go to the grocery store close to where i drop her off everyday at the daycare and ordered her a little cake with happy birthday jj with sprinkles.
-
-
AMNESIAN
Would that every father had a greater appreciation of the monumental role ---positive or negative---he plays in the woman his daughter(s) will become.
Very touching. Good on you, Teejay.
AMNESIAN
-
22
Why Doesn't The WT. Get Embarrassed When They Talk About The Pharisees?
by minimus in.
one thing that i could never figure out was how the society could rail against the scribes and pharisees and not blink an eye.
what's up with that?
-
-
AMNESIAN
Minimus:
During all the times we studied the "Greatest Man'' book, I became more convinced that the the Watchtower Society has "big ones" if they can say all the things that Jesus hated about the Pharisees and never make an application to themselves.
The GM book was always especially galling to me. I finally became thoroughly convinced that we were being mocked for our trusting gullibility. I came to believe the leadership smugly amuses itself by testing just how outrageously its control of and contempt for the flock can be brandished all the while getting us/them to willingly parrot representations about the organization and life as JWs that we were uncomfortably conscious were not in sync with reality.
Talk about cognitive dissonance.
I was similarly incredulous whenever WT articles condemned, point by point, "false" prophets, while arguing in that dishonest way they do why JWs don't fit the category! I could never think of any group that fit better.
AMNESIAN
-
18
Unusual statement in June 1, 2003 Watchtower
by Smiles inin the second study article of the june 1, 2003 watchtower, discussing how jehovah's witnesses should react when "gog of magog" (satan the devil) attacks them just before armageddon, page 21, paragraph 16 says, in part:.
how will god's servants react?.
"as never before, true christians will then need to place their confidence in fellow worshipers authorized by jehovah and his reigning king to take the lead.
-
-
AMNESIAN
Smiles, I, too, lasered in on this peculiar wording in the article (thanks to the transcription UnDf'd provided by in his/her thread, as I don't have the mag itself yet).
DJ:
Also, you know I just realized what that 'fellow worshippers' must mean. Are they speaking in reference to their teaching about... after all of the annointed are up in heaven....then there would only be 'fellow'worshippers' left on the earth?? .
This is extremely odd, highly-unusual wording for the WTS. It is a hard, unbending rule that elders ---even if only of the other sheep class---and elders only , be specifically identified as the ones through whom the flock can expect Jehovah's direction to come and the ones they'd better obey if they're to have any hope of salvation. Elders of the other sheep class are also routinely identified as the human "princes" Jesus and the 144,000 will use on earth after Armageddon to execute their rulership. Never, ever is a mere " fellow worshipper" identified as one in whom confidence is to be placed at any time nor one whom Jehovah and Jesus would ever authorize to take the lead in anything . (C'mon, given this hazy wording, some fool might conclude that Jehovah might actually authorize simpering, useless females to place confidence in!)
It likely, though, means nothing more than that some writer was trying to employ language that might lift the study material from the repetitive drone of most other articles written these days. It may, though, backfire on them if it generates an avalanche of inquiries. (***See below if interested in one example)
Regardless how the paragraph reads, make no mistake that each and every WT study conductor to a man will make sure no one leaves that meeting under the impression that "fellow worshippers" could possibly refer to anyone other than elders. Mark my word.
AMNESIA N
***A study article in the August 15, 1996 WT also discussed the subject of the circumstances and situation Jehovah’s servants should expect in the run-up to the great tribulation and Armageddon. Entitled “Will You Be Saved When God Acts?” it, too, employed curious wording, wording that caused the Society to be inundated with inquiries. Paragraph 22, pgs. 19-20 stated:
Recall that “flesh,” both of the anointed remnant and of the “great crowd,” already will have been saved when Babylon the Great goes down swiftly and completely in the first part of the tribulation. Likewise in the final part of the tribulation, “flesh” that has fled to Jehovah’s side will be saved. How this will contrast with the outcome for the rebellious Jews in 70 C.E.!
Because the article devoted a lot of very-detailed discussion to the two phases of the great tribulation, many surmised, from the above paragraph, that the Society was now teaching that there would be two phases of the great tribulation, separated by a time period comparable to that in 66 C.E. wherein the Roman army “inexplicably” retreated from its attack on Jerusalem, thereby allowing time for those heeding Jesus’ warning to flee the city. Some understood the article to imply that during this time period between phase one and phase two of the great tribulation, since “’flesh,’ both of the anointed remnant and of the ‘great crowd,’ already will have been saved”, that those who had not already “taken sides with God’s kingdom” (read: become Jehovah’s Witnesses) prior to the first phase would be given one last opportunity to do so during the break before the second phase began.
So many inquiries poured into Brooklyn that they were obliged to equip COs, at least those in certain locales, with clarification to disseminate during their rounds in the circuit to the effect that the Society had not and was not intending any “adjustment” in understanding of events surrounding the gt and Armageddon. The CO who was serving the congregation with which we were then associated, although generally a decent-enough fellow, came across right pissy as he delivered the prepared statement to us. From my own conversation with him, I concluded he didn’t regard publishers’ inquiries on this matter worthy of his or the Society’s time addressing.
Anyway, just shows to go you the firestorm HQ brings on itself when it gets so wound up in its wild-eyed, lunatic prophesying and inadvertently misspeaks in a way they don’t intend or even realize until all hell breaks loose. JWs are so acutely attuned to boilerplate WT-speak ---and so keen for “new light”---that even the ones who no longer avidly read the literature or hang on its every utterance sit up and take notice when it meanders from well-trodden paths.
*** w96 8/15 pp. 19-20 Will You Be Saved When God Acts? *** 17 The opening phase of this tribulation will be an attack on a symbolic prostitute called “Babylon the Great.” (Revelation 14:8; 17:1, 2) She represents the worldwide empire of false religion, with Christendom being most reprehensible. According to the words of Revelation 17:16-18, God will put it into the heart of the political element to attack this symbolic harlot. Think how it could appear to God’s anointed “chosen ones” and their associates, the “great crowd.” As this devastating attack on religion advances, it might seem that it will wipe out all religious organizations, including Jehovah’s people. 18 This is where Jesus’ words found at Matthew 24:22 will be fulfilled on a large scale. As the chosen ones in Jerusalem appeared to be at risk, Jehovah’s servants might seem in danger of being eliminated during the attack on religion, as if that attack would wipe out all “flesh” of God’s people. Yet, let us bear in mind what happened back in 66 C.E. The tribulation caused by the Romans was cut short, allowing God’s anointed chosen ones ample opportunity to escape and remain alive. Thus, we can rest assured that the destructive attack on religion will not be allowed to kill off the global congregation of true worshipers. It will proceed quickly, as if “in one day.” Somehow, though, it will be cut short, will not be allowed to complete its objective, so that God’s people can be “saved.”—Revelation 18:8. 19 Other elements of Satan the Devil’s earthly organization will thereafter continue for a time, mourning the loss of dealings with their old religious paramour. (Revelation 18:9-19) At some point, they will notice that God’s true servants remain, “dwelling in security, all of them dwelling without wall” and appearing to be easy prey. What a surprise is in store! Responding to a real or threatened aggression against his servants, God will rise up in judgment of his enemies in the final part of the great tribulation.—Ezekiel 38:10-12, 14, 18-23. 20 This second phase of the great tribulation will parallel what happened to Jerusalem and its inhabitants in the second attack by the Romans in 70 C.E. It will prove to be “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until [then], no, nor will occur again.” (Matthew 24:21) We can rest assured, though, that God’s chosen ones and their associates will not be in the danger zone, at risk of being killed. Oh, they will not have fled to one geographic location. First-century Christians in Jerusalem could flee from that city to the mountainous region, such as Pella across the Jordan. In the future, however, God’s faithful Witnesses will be located all over the globe, so safety and protection will not be based on geographic location. 21 The destruction will not be by the forces of Rome or any other human agency. Instead, the book of Revelation describes the executional forces as being from heaven. Yes, that final part of the great tribulation will be carried out, not by any human army, but by “The Word of God,” the King Jesus Christ, assisted by ‘the armies that are in heaven,’ including resurrected anointed Christians. The “King of kings and Lord of lords” will carry out an execution far more thorough than the Romans did in 70 C.E. It will eliminate all human opposers of God—kings, military commanders, freemen and slaves, small ones and great. Even human organizations of Satan’s world will meet their end.—Revelation 2:26, 27; 17:14; 19:11-21; 1 John 5:19. 22 Recall that “flesh,” both of the anointed remnant and of the “great crowd,” already will have been saved when Babylon the Great goes down swiftly and completely in the first part of the tribulation. Likewise in the final part of the tribulation, “flesh” that has fled to Jehovah’s side will be saved. How this will contrast with the outcome for the rebellious Jews in 70 C.E.!