Posts by PinTail

66

If You're Thinking About Getting Out, Be Careful Who You Confide Doubts To

by minimus in

jw
friends

that's my suggestion.

i wouldn't trust most anybody.

PinTail

Oh for the love of Mike! If you know and feel in your heart of hearts that you have been duped and are in a cult, then why play head games, they only have enough power that you are willing to give them. No one is forcing you to blindly walk in that dear little carpeted room in the back library and set there surrounded by jokers with their brief cases opened up cross legged, waiting for you like your some Christmas ham. Come on all, get a life stand up for what you believe in, and don't be abused any more. It is not Jehovah who treats you this way, it is a sick twisted poor excuse for a religion who rules with an iron fist. Give your self permission to say NO MORE! I dare you to read this ... But first take off your rose colored glasses for a while. http://www.biblestudents.net/food4jws/wt_history/

20

How much control does the WTS really have?

by dozy in

a theme regularly running through ex-jw / apostate posts is their conviction that the worship of jws is at best of a high control basis or at worst exhibits cult-like tendencies , so they often delight in the freedom that they now enjoy.. but in reality , how much control is exhibited on the average witness?

to take one example , at least 40k are dfd in an average year , and one would assume 3 - 5x this figure are reproved privately or publicly.

that means that over a 10 year period 20% - 25% of jws are seriously flouting the strongest moral code of jws , usually for immorality , emphasized in wt after wt , meeting after meeting.

PinTail

Case in point, if you are involved in a judicial situation with elders and go behind that closed door, there is not much you can do to protect your self other than get up off that chair and walk out with your head held high. Always remember Christ is your redeemer, not NO human or institution on this earth. Break free from "Landru and don't let him absorb you, Landru's will, does not have to be your will its ok to break free.

76

Why did you leave the org?

by A-Team in

were you dfed, did you find out some lies about the org?.

what was the last straw?

PinTail

Most people who are Witness's unless they have been shunned, have no idea what it is like, and its affect on people, I seen how they have taken over peoples own god given conscious which is just plain wrong for them to do. For me I seen over the passage of time, the teachings are very much contingent on the governing body using cult like mind control tactics, on unsuspecting good hearted folks. I now belong to the "Assosiated Bible Students" and wish I as well as all my brothers and sisters in my family would have been all along. http://www.biblestudents.net/food4jws/wt_history/

7

The Watchtower and "Studies in the Scriptures"

by RR in

in 1886, the divine plan of the ages, the first volume of the series studies in the scriptures was released, in later years five more volumes would be released, some fifteen million copies were distributed during the authors lifetime.

shortly after the death of c.t.

russell, his books were replaced with the writings of j.f.

PinTail

The modern day International Bible Students are doing quite well these days. http://www.biblestudents.net/food4jws/wt_history/ I was a Witness for forty years of my adult life but now at age fifty three I have seen the light, now I am with the Bible Students and its a whole lot less pressure involved while worshipping Jehovah. Shane, from Utah

Contrary to some publicity made concerning "Jehovah's Witnesses," Pastor Charles Taze Russell is not the founder of this religious group. He was never associated with them, nor did he ever claim the name. Pastor Russell died in 1916, while the "Jehovah's Witnesses" did not come into existence until 1931. Linking Pastor Russell with "Jehovah's Witnesses" leaves the decidedly mistaken view that their teachings and beliefs are alike. Such is not the case.

Pastor Russell founded what has been called "The Bible Student's Association." This movement had its beginning in the 1860's in Allegheny, Pa. when earnest Christians formed a Bible class for advanced Bible study to meet the then rising wave of infidelity. In 1879, Zion's Watch Tower Society was formed, later knows as The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. This Society did not become the central authority for the Bible Students, for all cooperating congregations of Bible Students held strictly to congregational self-government. The Society only served to coordinate the activities of the various congregations.

After the death of Pastor Russell in 1916 the purpose of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society changed completely. The teachings of the six volumes of "Studies In The Scriptures" were discarded. The congregations in harmony with the Society relinquished congregational rule. The Society became the central head and authority over all congregations willing to yield their sovereignty. Basic doctrines of the Society seriously digressed from the teachings of Pastor Russell, and before long Judge Rutherford declared that those associated with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were "Jehovah's Witnesses" on this earth. Here is where the name emerged -- certainly not in Pastor Russell's time.

After Pastor Russell's death, The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society began to rise as a hierarchy over the once independent congregations. Many refused to surrender their Christian liberty and here started the work of separation. As early as 1917 this exodus from the Society began, and those who appreciated the wonderful harmony of the Bible as taught by Pastor Russell are today known as "Associated Bible Students."

The following doctrines are an example as to how Bible Students still retain the basic teachings of Pastor Russell in contrast with "Jehovah's Witnesses," who do not.

BIBLE STUDENTS: Pastor Russell was led to believe in a future probation because millions have died and continue to die without hearing the Gospel. Of those that do hear, uncertainty and confusion exists in their minds because Christianity of today is burdened with contradictory beliefs and teachings.

JW'S: "Jehovah's Witnesses" see no further probation for any of the present generation who do not subscribe to their teachings - which means that a large percentage of the world's population is to perish eternally in Armageddon. In this respect their views are less generous than most established Churches. They not only see no hope for those who live today, who do not subscribe to their teachings, but they entertain no hope for a large percentage of the millions who have gone into the grave since the creation of man. For example, JW'S believe that the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, etc. have perished eternally, with no hope for a resurrection.

BIBLE STUDENTS: Pastor Russell pointed to the Scriptures, such as Ezek. 16:55, where it declares that these are all going to return to their "former estate." And our Lord, in Matt. 10:15, confirms this thought when he said, "It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city"- (speaking of the Jews). Thus our Lord pointed forward to a day of judgment for those people who died centuries ago. And again it says, in Acts 17:31 that, "He hath appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness."

JW'S: "Jehovah's Witnesses" deny that Adam will ever have a resurrection, while the Scriptures plainly state that Jesus Christ tasted death "for every man." Heb. 2:9; 1 Tim. 2:5,6.

BIBLE STUDENTS: Pastor Russell pointed to these scriptures and many others such as 1 Cor. 15:22 - "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Also Hosea 13:14 - "I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be they plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction."

Pastor Russell taught, according to the Scriptures, that now is "the day of salvation" for those who are to be the Bride of Christ, the Little Flock; and that another day - a day of salvation is awaiting mankind in general, in the Millennial Age - "the times of restitution of all things which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

One of the main teachings of Pastor Russell was that all would be enlightened with a knowledge of God's Truth before they are placed on trial and judged for their final destiny. For the majority of mankind this would be when they are raised from the dead at the time of the general resurrection. Their final judgment would be based on their conduct while enlightened, not while in ignorance. This teaching separated Bible Students from all other religious groups. Now it separates them from "Jehovah's Witnesses" as well. This view broke with the concept of salvation current in his day. At that time nearly all evangelists taught a literal hell of torment for those who did not accept Christ in this life. They felt hell-fire threats were necessary to restrain evil and, if need be, to bring salvation by fear. Many theologians have since broadened their concept of salvation beyond this life, but "Jehovah's Witnesses" hold strongly to the position that those who reject their message are rejecting salvation.

Contrary to our Lord's Word, every "Jehovah's Witness" becomes a missionary of life or death, using the fear of eternal destruction or second death as their final appeal.

The Jewish People: Israel, and the Jewish people, present another major difference between Pastor Russell and the JW's. After applying the Scripture, "Ye are my witnesses saith Jehovah" (Isa. 43:12) to themselves, "Jehovah's Witnesses" declare that the Jewish people have no special role in the Divine Plan since the death of Jesus. On the contrary, Pastor Russell taught that the Jewish people and nation have a leading role in the Divine Plan for man, and accordingly during the year 1910 he spoke to vast Jewish audiences, comforting them according to the Scripture, Isa. 40:2 - "Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned; for she hath received of the Lord's hand double for all her sins." He encouraged them not to join the various churches of today but to wait for the fulfillment of the many Old Testament promises that they would be blessed as a nation.

While they were yet a scattered and dispersed people, he said, upon the basis of these promises, that they would be regathered to Palestine and established as an independent nation. Time has proven this to be so. Although denied by "Jehovah's Witnesses," Bible Students today teach that the new state of Israel emerged in Divine Providence and is a precursor to the fulfillment of God's promise to that nation that, - "Lo the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it." (Jer. 30:3)

And again, Jer.24:6, 7, says, - "I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them and not pull them down; and I will plant them and not pluck them up. And I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart."

And a further promise in Jer. 31:27-34 was that, - "Like as I have watched over them to pluck up, and to destroy and to afflict; so will I watch over them to build and to plant, saith the Lord... and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in that day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they break... but this shall be the covenant that I will make... I will put my Law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts... and they shall be my people... I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin no more."

From these facts it can be seen that Pastor Charles T. Russell was neither in principle nor in spirit, the founder of "Jehovah's Witnesses."

46

Notes: Friday District Convention - Follow the Anointed Who Follow Christ

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

today was the first day of three for this year's "follow the christ" district convention.. for the first time in as many years as i can go back, the theme of this program was jesus christ.. most of the program was ok. the talks considered jesus, his life and his works.

there was nothing about the talks that i considered insulting or controlling.. could this be it?

could the society really be going jesus-centric?.

PinTail

WELL said Truthseeker, you share my own thoughts on the matter, its weird how other brothers and sister don't see this. I look at the governing body like the chariter called Landru, in the Star Trek series as they keep trying to absorb you like he does. ("It is the will of Landru") when all along Landru was just a big computer controling everyone.

6

ROFLMAO

by Kaethra in

jw
friends

testing...can't seem to start new topic...

PinTail

How about is that a Cat or Dog in that picture umm?

Shane

45

Why do people hide on this site?

by Adolfius in

jw
friends

something i've noticed when reading the various threads on this site, is that so many people seem to be afraid.

their scared of being disfellowshipped, scared of being shunned, scared of not being accepted by the congregation, scared that people may find out they don't believe anymore, scared if anyone was to find out they use this site.

there is advice for people on how to avoid being disfellowshipped, if they may have "said too much" about their thoughts, or how to fade without being noticed.. i don't understand this.

PinTail

I used to be hiding in the duct work also, till I realized it is Jehovah that I worship and not an organization (WTBTS), he is my ultimate hope if and when I die or when I lay in bed in the hospital from a condition I suffer from, not knowing if I will wake up alive or dead. I felt bad too for a while and still do at times, when I miss some of my friends who are still Witness's, but like the bible says "a true friend is loving all the time" those that I felt at the time were my friends who were Witness's were really not close friends we all including myself were caught up in the mess of what we call mind control. The best course of action for anyone to take is to maintain his relationship with his creator Jehovah God, you do not need the Watchtower Society to completely do this, I still read their publications from time to time, but I glean what I know is reasonable and what is not I push to the side. If I was to remove most of what is unreasonable and what encroaches on conscious matters from the Witness doctrine then by and large I would have the Bible Students way of worshiping Jehovah, that is where I am today. Shane From Utah << there I did it : - )

7

Has anyone ever accepted a evil slave tract at an assembly?

by PinTail in

i did once, it was in ogden, utah events center.

it was after the afternoon talk and me and my ex-wife was walking to our car, and nice fellow asked if i would like to look at a tract, i said yes thank you.at that very moment this other fellow jehovah's witness came over and rudely jerked it our of my hand, and told me did you not hear the brother from bethel, to not accept tracts from them and to just look straight ahead.

needless to say this embarrassed me a great deal, cause there was many other witness's walking with me as well as my daughters seen me being disrespected, so i slugged that so and so, right smack on his nose and it knocked him to the ground, and i reminded him that i live in the good old u s of a, and i will read what i want!

PinTail

Well as far as Dubery" goes, I know what you mean by that, its the Witness's dogmatic stance on conscious issues is my big beef with them. The Bible Students do not have this same attitude at all, if one would do a close examination of them on this one aspect, then they would see that they maintain what I consider the good parts of the Witness belief structure and dump the mind control and that is most refreshing.
The Witness's always like to press forward the saying to the rank and file "don't go beyond the things written," but they them selfs do it all the time, feeling that they have a divine assignment to do so even calling them selfs the "governing body" in that they misapply the scriptures again here also, by calling them selfs this. They should just call them selfs "LANDRU you all will be aborbed, it is the will of LANDRU".

32

JW children - conditionally loved?

by Gregor in

when they reach a certain age they are expected to "sign up" (get baptized).

in many cases if they choose not to their parents essentially "disfellowship" them.

so a lot of children get baptized under pressure from the parents and when they fail to live the jw life and get df'd the folks are the harshest shunners.

PinTail

You got that right, Amos.

5

Partaking at the Memorial

by 38 Years in

i know you're sick of stories about the memorial, but you have to see this.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccote1skw8a.

PinTail

I partake of the wine, or simple pure grape juice cause no where in the bible does it say it has to be wine, as long as it is the fruit of the vine. Anyway I make own stuff and have my thing at my house, my bread has never been dry like the witness bread all I do add is water and flour and cook it, and comes out a lovly nice and skin like kind a chewy yummy stuff. I even use the bread for breakfast the next morning with butter on it and eggs.