Posts by PinTail

105

DO YOU THINK THERE'S A CURE FOR CANCER?

by Mary in

do you think the scientists, doctors and pharmeceutical companies know of a cure for cancer that they're not telling us?

when you consider the leaps and bounds in medical discoveries that we've made in the last 50 years, it seems incredible that they're still using chemotherapy and radiation as the treatment for cancer.. while i was one of the lucky one who has survived cancer (so far), it's always in the back of my mind that it could return.

we all have friends who died before their time because of this rotten disease, yet the only progress that seems to have been made is that they can now 'detect' it earlier, which of course gives you a much greater chance of survival.. there have been stories of people who have been cured through alternative medicine, yet no one in the medical field seems to be interested in anything other than chemo or radiation.

PinTail

Yes eat oat meal everyday, and pomegranates and avocados too each day.

30

You want some big Watchtower news? I think this is big news.

by under_believer in

just like the wts, the mormons (okay, the "church of jesus christ of latter-day saints," hey look, a religion with even less talent at picking a name than the jw's) hide their net worth.

nobody knows how much money they have, though estimates go as high as 30 billion usd.. .

well, this guy in portland is suing them for (what else) pastoral pedophilia, and part of the discussion of damages, the plaintiff argues, is the revelation of how much money the church has.

PinTail

I sued them once when one of their good will trucks rammed into my car, during the litigation my attorney let me look a big wad or of letter heads representing the company's they owe. Companies like Coca-Cola RJ Reynolds Tobacco, Union Pacific, Jack Daniels distillery, and a few other bible belt religions. Belive it or not.

4

Who really is "The 'Evil Slave Class"

by PinTail in

for years it has been said that the bible students are guilty of creature worship.

that this "creature worship" led to the largest schism in watchtower history, and separated the "faith slave class" from the "evil slave class".

what is the creature they are charged with worshipping?

PinTail

As I see it, the evil slave is anyone who professes to be the "faithful and discreet slave" class, yet teaches things that are blatantly in opposition to the Bible that they claim to go by. And there are a zillion such teachings that the Tower teaches, claiming them as Scriptural, that are blatantly unscriptural. Celebration of Christmas, the blood issue. their idea of "loose conduct", limiting education, not checking the opposing viewpoints before joining, the shunning of people that do not agree... The list goes on.

The Associated Bible as they are called today, do not have enforced sanctions on observations of holidays as you have noted above, which is why I like them, they have many wonderful qualitys as far as doctrine is concerned and that makes them much easyer to be around as well as more loving to be with.

And the blood issue is moot to them.

http://www.chicagobible.org/

4

Who really is "The 'Evil Slave Class"

by PinTail in

for years it has been said that the bible students are guilty of creature worship.

that this "creature worship" led to the largest schism in watchtower history, and separated the "faith slave class" from the "evil slave class".

what is the creature they are charged with worshipping?

PinTail

For Years it has been said that the Bible Students are guilty of creature worship. That this "creature worship" led to the largest schism in Watchtower history, and separated the "Faith Slave Class" from the "Evil Slave Class". What is the creature they are charged with worshipping? None other then Charles Taze Russell, organizer of the International Bible Students Association and founder and first president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. And who are these accusers who make such a claim? None other then the very Society Russell founded, the Watch Tower and it's current members the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Notice this statement found in the book; Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose

The insistence that Russell had been "that Servant" led many to regard Russell in what amounted actually to creature worship. They believed that all the truth God had seen fit to reveal to his people had been revealed to Russell, and now nothing more could be brought forth because "that servant" was dead." [1959, pg 69]

As recent as 1988, in the book Revelation - It's Grand Climax at Hand!
The Watchtower makes this claim:

"The John class, however, emerged from the tumultuous days of the first world war with a love for Jehovah and for the truth that impelled them to serve him with flaming zeal. They resisted those who tried to introduce sectarianism through practically idolizing the first president of the Watch Tower Society, Charles T. Russell, following his death in 1916." [p. 35, 36]

Who were "those" the "John class" tried to resist? And how did "those" try "to introduce sectarianism"? The answer lies in the book; God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in 1973. It had this to say concerning the issue of idolizing C.T. Russell:

"This view was prominently featured in the book published in July of 1917 by the People's Pulpit Association of Brooklyn, New York. This book was called "The Finished Mystery" and furnished a commentary of the Bible books of Revelation and Ezekiel and The Songs of Solomon. On its Publishers page the book was called the "Posthumous Works of Pastor Russell." Such a book and religious attitude tended to establish a religious sect centered around a man" [pg 347]

Who or what was the People's Pulpit Association? The answer again can be found in the pages of the book Qualified to Be Ministers published in 1967, by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. It had this to say about the Association:

"Such a corporation came into legal existence February 23, 1909, and was named People's Pulpit Association. Thirty years later, in 1939, the name was changed to its present one, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, Inc." [pg. 309]

So, in essence, the Watchtower Society itself was to blame for promoting the idolizing of C.T. Russell, not a group of individuals. The Book The Finished Mystery was published by the Watchtower Society, it was sanctioned by then president J.F. Rutherford, and was the cause of much schism within the Bible Students Association, not because it was promoting Russell, but because it was filled with misquotes, half truths and perversion of thoughts.

Nowhere within the pages of C.T. Russell's writings, is there a thought alluding to worshipping him. Never did he ever claim to be "That Faithful and Wise Servant" mentioned in Matthew 24:45-48. Yes ... there were those in his day who believe he filled that office, members of the Association, some representatives of the Watch Tower Society, but Russell never made such a claim for himself. In fact his thought on the matter was:

"I have nothing to say about the subject. What I would say would not change matters any way. You have your right to your opinion and they have their right to theirs. [Convention Reports 1909, pg. 25]

Russell did teach "that servant" to be a class, representing the church as early as 1897 in the book, The Battle of Armageddon, but some years later, would change his mind and believed it to be an individual. Yet he never claimed to be that individual.

In fact, the thought of promoting Russell as "That Servant" and giving him prominence was J.F. Rutherford. In the 1916 Watchtower it stated:

Thousands of the readers of Pastor Russell's writings believe that he filled the office of "that faithful and wise servant," and that his great work was giving to the Household of Faith meat in due season. His modesty and humility precluded him from openly claiming this title, but he admitted as much in private conversation. [pg 357]

The only ones who admitted to these so-called private conversations were, Rutherford, VanAmburgh and MacMillan, the three individuals responsible for seizing control of the Watch Tower Society. Their motives behind such a promotion was to appease the close friends, colleagues and supporters of Russell. Rutherford vowed to continue the work Russell had started. But in promoting Russell, elevating him and his writings to that of equal par to the Scriptures, he created a monster. Many Bible Students parted company with the Society. Some actually believed and accepted this new idea. It was even taught through the pages of The Watch Tower that Russell was still directing the affairs of the Society from heaven.

Evidently Rutherford, decided to slay the monster he created, by cunningly denouncing all he had stated and written in The Watch Tower. Not only was Russell pushed to the background, but the Scriptures had been reinterpreted. Russell's books were left to go out of print, with no new editions being published. His name if mentioned at all, was done only in passing, as "first President" of the Society. His writings were replaced by newer ones. This cause more schisms and departures by Bible Students who could not and would not accept the Society's leadership, and autocratic rule.

For years afterwards, Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses grew apart, animosity and hatred was promoted by the Society towards the independent Bible Student groups who rejected the Society as God's Sole Channel of communication. The Society rewrote its history, omitting many important facts, and in the cases cited above distorted many events, to place them in a good light and branding Bible Students as evil opposers who would rather follow and worship a man, rather than their organization. The Society claiming to be "The Faithful and Wise Slave Class" denounced all independent Bible Students outside of the Society as "The Evil Slave Class", The Watchtower of June 15, 1987, had this to say:

"By the summer of 1918 ... At the time of the Society's conventions that summer, some apostates turned away and formed their own opposing religious groups. Manifesting the traits of an "evil slave," they were 'winnowed' like "chaff" to be separated from Jehovah's faithful remnant. (Matthew 3:12; 24:48-51) The Memorial of Christ's death was celebrated on Sunday, April 13, 1919, with 17,961 attending in many lands. As compared to a partial report for 1917, the Memorial attendance had dropped by more than 3,000, indicating the effects of sifting."

It was not so much that Bible Students "opposed" the work of the Society, the issue was the Bible Students and the Society were no longer in harmony doctrinally, the 3,000 or so who "dropped" out by 1918, eventually grew in the coming years, by 1930 seventy-five percent of the original Bible Students had abandoned the Society.

For years, the Society shifted the blame on Professor Paul S.L. Johnson, a colleague of Russell, an ordained minister, born a Jew, who joined the Bible Students Association and became an important promoter of Bible Truths. He was the Society's scapegoat for many years. Most of the attacks on Johnson came after his death in 1950, and continued until the 1980s, it was as the old saying goes "beating a dead horse", as Johnson was not alive to defend himself.

The Society tried to silence the Bible Students, by holding on to the copyrights of such works as Studies in the Scriptures and the Watch Tower Reprints. As Bible Students, they relied on their Bibles and nothing more. When the copyrights ran out, Paul S. L. Johnson, decided to reprint the Studies in the Scriptures. He contacted Rutherford, as they at one time were like brothers. Rutherford's reply came in the destruction of the original plates. It was a slow process, but Johnson in 1937, made the Volumes available to the brethren. In that same time period the Dawn Bible Students Association, also reproduced the volumes. And years later, The Watch Tower Reprints were made available to the brethren by way of the Chicago Bible Students Republishing committee [with the exception of the years 1917-1919.]

Through the years many Jehovah's Witnesses, upon obtaining these writings, have come to know the Truth, not only in regards to the Watchtower but in regards to God's Plans and purposes. In 1971 the Watchtower had this to say, about the Bible Students and their witness work:

"The modern-day history of Jehovah's witnesses shows that attempts have been made by some, making up an "evil slave" class, to assume control over Jehovah's work and his people. This was especially seen during the World War I period. Jehovah, however, has cleansed his organization, and made it wholly theocratic. The credit is due to him, not to man." [pages 436-7 ]

This led the Watchtower to warn Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide, to read only those publications stamped with the insignia "Published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society". Russell's books were viewed as "old light" and many were tyold to not waste time reading errors. In some cases Russell's writings were on a "blacklist" on books not to read. Yes it is true that many Kingdom Hall libraries have Russell's books, but there are there as a result of donation from a deceased witness, or there simply as a ornament of sorts. There have been documented cases of Jehovah's Witnesses being disfellowshiped simply because of their reading, studying and apllying what they read in Russell's volumes. Notice this quotes from the Watchtower:

"Individually, careful watch has still to be kept. The records show that, in our congregations, some need to be warned, others put on probation, and others have to be disfellowshiped. Why? Because, while claiming to be in the truth, they do not practice the truth. This often starts in a small way, but, if persisted in, it leads away from the light into the darkness. [ibid]

What is this "truth" these Jehovah's Witnesses claim to be "in"? it is the truth of the scriptures, the truths they learned in regards to God's plans and purposes, the truths they learned from such works as "Studies in the Scriptures" written by the late Charles Taze Russell. Elders, Ministerial Servants, Pioneers, Bethelites and rank and file members of the Society, have been disfellowshiped because of their accepting these writings as containing truth.

The Society's publications having a much larger circulation then all the Bible Student literature combined, tried a new tactic, everytime they mentioned the term "Bible Students" they always had in parenthesis "as Jehovah's Witnesses were then known as". Giving the reader the thought that Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses are one and the same. When people came across the name or writings of Russell or Bible Students, they would automatically associate it with the Witnesses.

In recent years, with the advent of computers, and counter cult ministries, Witnesses were being made aware of the Bible Students, and the real issues being raised by the Watchtower Society. Some did their research, many returned to their roots, namely the Bible Students Association. Some were simply enlightened to their history as Jehovah's Witnesses. It was not until the Society was forced to write a new history, still intent on perverting the truth, they nevertheless, did admit a distinction between Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses:

"After the death of Brother Russell, some former associates refused to cooperate with the Watch Tower Society and the International Bible Students Association, even opposing the work of these societies. Such fragmented groups used a variety of names, some of them clinging to the designation Associated Bible Students." [Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, pg. 151]

This however does not state that the Bible Students still exist today, it merely referred to "fragmented" groups during the schism of 1917. However the fact that you are reading this ... shows that you now know ... that Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses are two distinct groups, with distinct beliefs. It is not so much the importance that we stress the individuality of both groups, for we do recognize the Watchtower Society, and do recognize our Jehovah's Witness friends. But the fact that we have been misrepresented, not by Christians in general, but by the very association we helped build.

It is very strange ... that the Watchtower Society, forbids its members from associating with the "evil slave class", namely the Bible Students, and have chastised those witnesses, who possess and read Russell's writings, and at the same time, the Society has been in contact with various Bible Student groups, exchanging literature and purchasing one anthers books. This is has been verified by both correspondence to and from the Society from Bible Students, as well as eye-witness accounts of Bible Student literature sitting on not only Kingdom Hall libraries, but Watchtower libraries as well.

One would be apt to conclude this is a love/hate relationship on the part of the Watchtower Society. But we know the promises contained in Scriptures will not allow this relationship to continue. For one day, in God's due time, all of mankind will learn the truth, and all will reside under His loving care.

41

How do you view crosses now?

by reneeisorym in

jw
friends

if you are a christian, how to you feel about crosses now?.

if you are an athiest, would you wear one?.

PinTail

My laws, it is the death of our dear Lord Jesus is what brings salvation, and the applying faith in his shed perfect blood to atone for all humans who have died so that they can live again as well as those alive now or those in some other point in time who learn about him. The bible said only that he would be hung on a tree, it did not specify what shape it would be. It's too easy to strain at semantics. Keep on having a open mind, don't listion to the Witness's when they say things like "be ready to obey" close your mind to worldly blah blah blah" I commend you in your search for truth. Shane http://www.chicagobible.org/

82

Have You Ever Met A "Celebrity" or Actually See One Face To Face?

by minimus in

jw
friends

while i was in new york i walked by two men and one looked like the comedian jackie mason whom i adore.

i looked at him and said, "i just wanted to say how much i enjoy your shows.

i've seen you perform a number of times".

PinTail

I watched fire works with Jody Foster back in 1995 near the Ferry landing in the Town of Friday Harbor, WA we shared a blanket cause it was cold as heck near the water. And in the same town I had donuts and coffee with Timothy Dalton at the Donut Shop near Kings Store.

8

QUESTIONS ABOUT BOARD

by snowbird in

jw
friends

how many administrators/moderators/assistants are on jwd?.

what does it mean when the thread folders change colors and seem to be on fire?.

thanks.. snowbird.

PinTail

I know I have tried to start a new topic but I can't, and it's been about a week since my last new topic. What's up with that?

I am crying.

40

'..simply for a contribution to cover the printing cost of the magazines...

by Gill in

do you remember when we used to ask for a 'contribution that covers the printing cost' for the mags?.

was that ever the real cost of printing the mags?

afterall, we had to pay for the wretched things when we collected them, so was the wt society already making a profit from us foolish sheep which we then tried to recoup from the unsuspecting public.. were we conned?

PinTail

I remember having the house holder give me a box of Jello or a bar of soap many times in exchange, and at times they would give me a sandwich if they were eating lunch or a slice of bacon if I smelled it and remarked how good it smelled, LOL that actually happened a lot. One time I had to take a dump so bad, and this old guy let me use his John, I quit going out in the service for a while after that. The craziest one I can think of though was this house where some black Pentecostals where living, and they all put their hands on my head and cast out a demon, so they said at the time anyway, tee he. http://www.biblestudents.net/food4jws/wt_history/

19

The governing body is "The Christ"

by candidlynuts in

i keep reading small bits here and there where people mention the " follow the christ" convention states the governing body is now " the christ".

can anyone clarify this or know which talk it is , have audio or video?

any more information of any kind would be appreciated..

PinTail

I would not put it past them to think they are the Christ. I have much more respect for the Associated Bible Students they are what some people mistakenly think are Jehovah's Witness's for this simple reason, they have kept to the same teachings and did not fluctuate and vacillate like the Witness's (GB) have, besides they don't seek to control you like slaves. http://www.biblestudents.net/food4jws/wt_history/

12

JWs and their thoughts on prayers by "worldly" people.

by R.F. in

how have jws expressed their views as to the prayers of people that aren't jws?

do they think god listens and answers?.

for instance, one elder that was speaking of prayer said, "just think how wonderful it is.

PinTail

The basic crux of the matter concerning prayer is this, first of all Jehovah is a god of love personified, the scriptures tells that the eyes of Jehovah are roving about the earth searching anyone whose heart can be complete towards him. Think of what he sacrificed for mankind, namely his righteous son to undergo a horrible death so that ALL mankind can live and be redeemed from our fallen state, so in view of this do you think he is looking for ways to keep from hearing a honest hearted prayer from someone. (Anyone)... supplicating to him in a time of great need such as the hurt that death brings along with its great depletion of spirit. Jehovah IS, near to ALL those broken in spirit, and their cry for help he hears. (Trust me, never under estimate Jehovah when you call out to him, even if you feel your faith is not much or that you are too big of a sinner, he will hear and he will do as his own good pleasure sees fit for you personally.)