Posts by Incognito

9

How to find someone

by peacefulpete in

what suggestions can you offer as to how to find a girl i knew as a child.

i know she married at least twice and do not know any name other than her maiden name.

she was in wisconsin about 20 years ago but can't say since.

High Profile Case: Seeking Reinstatement

by headisspinning in

but our situation is very difficult and quite high profile.... i was raised as a jw and my mother was very strict and abusive.

i got baptized at age 14.. my mother actually called on my (present) husband's mom in service.

she was on the initial call resulting in his mom coming in the truth and him being raised in it from about age 8 or 9.. despite a very abusive step-father, he followed his mom's lead and came into the truth.

Incognito

While she was on this site, she was treated with more love and respect then she'll ever receive at the Kingdom Hall and I think that will leave a very strong impression.

I wish her well but I predict that at every meeting she attends from now on, she will have moments thinking of what she learned on this site. Since she specifically mentioned the 'conscience class' she'll begin to wonder who in her congregation is attending but going through the motions and doesn't actually believe.

She'll try to forget what she learned and may be able to disregard it for a time, but she'll be back.

You can't unlearn what you already know and you can't put toothpaste back into the tube.

113

High Profile Case: Seeking Reinstatement

by headisspinning in

but our situation is very difficult and quite high profile.... i was raised as a jw and my mother was very strict and abusive.

i got baptized at age 14.. my mother actually called on my (present) husband's mom in service.

she was on the initial call resulting in his mom coming in the truth and him being raised in it from about age 8 or 9.. despite a very abusive step-father, he followed his mom's lead and came into the truth.

Incognito

Apostate is anyone who leaves their former religion.-- That include the founder of the jw's, Russell.

That includes Jesus, the greatest Apostate that ever lived.

113

High Profile Case: Seeking Reinstatement

by headisspinning in

but our situation is very difficult and quite high profile.... i was raised as a jw and my mother was very strict and abusive.

i got baptized at age 14.. my mother actually called on my (present) husband's mom in service.

she was on the initial call resulting in his mom coming in the truth and him being raised in it from about age 8 or 9.. despite a very abusive step-father, he followed his mom's lead and came into the truth.

Incognito

headisspinning said:

I have felt that love when I was in good standing.

This is conditional love. Conditional on being in good standing with the Watchtower but completely absent when a mistake is made or when someone doesn't unquestionably follow every requirement of the Watchtower.

Where in the Bible does Christ even hint that our LOVE should be conditional? Jesus hated the sin but loved the sinner.

The Watchtower requires all JWs to blindly shun others when the WT determines they are to be shunned. Shun may be a word you don't agree with since JWs use the word 'Dissfellowship', but the outcome is the same and 'shun' better describes what occurs.

I said blindly as all JWs must immediately cease having anything to do with you when they learn you are disfellowshipped, even though they have no idea of what you have done or the circumstances of why you are in that state.

Although you may have since repented to God and now live an exemplary life and desire to be 'reinstated', you remain an outcast and continue to be shunned until the Watchtower, through the local elders declare you may again be accepted, however long that may take.

Jesus said that his followers would be identified by the love they show, ESPECIALLY amongst themselves. He said to love others, even our enemies but he recognized that we would of course show more love to those who we personally know and feel close to.

The Watchtower portrays the Elders as loving Spiritual Sheppard's. What loving Sheppard beats a sheep to near death for straying and then keeps that sheep separate from the rest of the flock as punishment? Isn't that equivalent to what they are doing to you and your husband?

Jesus used the illustration of the prodigal son. The son didn't have to beg and grovel for his father's acceptance, or even wait for some 'proving time' but his father immediately ran to love and accept him when he first saw him at a distance, not knowing if his son had repented or even why he had returned.

In Jesus' time, he was critical of the Pharisees, not for what they believed, but for the extra man-made requirements they were placing on everyone, supposedly to ensure acceptance to God. Were these extra requirements demanded by God or demanded by men that said they were speaking for God? Is this much different than what the Watchtower requires of others? The Elders will not show kindness, even if only to provide you with a Watchtower magazine nonetheless reinstate you without first being directed or approved to do so by the WTBTS.

Right now, you think that being reinstated will be the solution to your problems. Since everyone in the Congregation is only 'imperfect humans' there will be some that will forever hold your mistakes against you and may even make these mistakes known to others. True love does not keep a record of wrongs. 1 Corth 13: 4-8.

I'm sorry that you're both going through this situation but I hope that you'll both take this opportunity to research how this organization operates and its background on how it started and what it has taught as `truth` over its relatively short history.

Learn and educate yourselves. If this is truly Jehovah's organization, there is no harm in questioning and making sure yourself. Jehovah understands! If you then conclude that the JW religion is 'The Truth', you will be better JWs for having proven this for yourselves.

12

America's Most Wanted profiles JW Elder Child Molester

by out4good3 in

last night on amw, they profiled the jw elder child molester.

they detailed how he'd planned to be on the run by stashing money all around his house, how he quickly got a divorce when he was being investigated, sold off his assets in a race car business and disappeared.

one lady interviewed incognito, told of how he was a trusted member in the congregation with privileges.. did anyone else see this segment?

Incognito

Nobody talked to me about this!

113

High Profile Case: Seeking Reinstatement

by headisspinning in

but our situation is very difficult and quite high profile.... i was raised as a jw and my mother was very strict and abusive.

i got baptized at age 14.. my mother actually called on my (present) husband's mom in service.

she was on the initial call resulting in his mom coming in the truth and him being raised in it from about age 8 or 9.. despite a very abusive step-father, he followed his mom's lead and came into the truth.

Incognito

Welcome to headisspinning & family,

You mention about praying to Jehovah about this situation. I'm sure that you've heard the saying: 'God works in mysterious ways'. Perhaps this situation is Jehovah's way of helping you look at the JW religion to prove to yourself if it is really 'The Truth'. Sometimes the best results come from situations that initially seem very dire and hopeless.

1 Thess 5:21 indicates to: test all things and to hold onto what is good. This situation may have been the only thing to cause you to test the Watchtower organization to prove if what it proclaims is actually 'The Truth' and is actually God's organization on earth. Someone once made the profound statement along the line: The biggest obstacle to finding truth ... is the mistaken belief that you've already found truth (or already know it).

You are individually responsible for what you believe and the life you live and only you can prove that your beliefs are correct. Association with an organization does not automatically give you a 'Free Pass'. You need to ask yourself: Do I really want to know the "Truth"? Am I humble enough to accept TRUTH even if it contradicts what I already thought was 'The Truth'?

Don't blindly accept whatever anyone tells you, but check into the things they say to test if what is said is correct. This goes for what anyone here tells you and especially for the Watchtower as only they proclaim to be God's only mouthpiece.

Is what the Watchtower requires actually required by God or does what they demand actually contradict what the Bible says, if the bible passage is read in proper context?

This maybe the only occasion where you can freely investigate any and all information to prove the claims made by the Watchtower. Take advantage of this opportunity! Decisions you make now can have a monumental impact on you, your husband's and child's future life.

Wannabefree said:

We were protective of the organization.

Considering JW's stating that Jehovah is the most powerful being in the entire universe, their usual actions contradict this statement. If he is the most powerful being, why do we, mere weak humans, need to protect him and cover-up what goes on within HIS organization?

Your life as a JW affects who you are and how you deal with life's situations. Since the JW religion has such a major influence, in your and your Husband's need for Professional assistance, the affect of the religion must be discussed if you both are to progress in dealing with your issues.

5

Should true Christians listen to symposiums?

by sir82 in

jw
friends

anyone whose been to a circuit assembly or district convention over the past 5 years knows how the society has gone absolutely ape-$#!+ crazy over the word "symposium".. there's a symposium every morning...every afternoon....every multi-talk unit is introduced as a "symposium"...the km articles hyping the assemblies ramble on about how we can look forward with great enthusiasm to all the symposiums....at lunchtime, the talk is all about "oh what a great symposium"...symposium this, symposium that..... anyways, i'm currently reading "the jews in the time of jesus" by stephen wylen, an entry-level discussion of jewish belief in the 2nd temple period concentrating on, not surprisingly, the jews in the time of jesus.. in one chapter he is comparing jewish ritual meals to christian ritual meals, and how the seder morphed into the eucharist.. he talks how the seder was done in the first century, and compares it to a typical hellenistic (greek) banquet.. here's what i found amusing:.

"at the hellenistic banquet the participants sat on sofas around a low table, dining at leisure.

meanwhile, they discussed a prepared topic.

Incognito

Symposiums have a...

PAGAN ORIGIN!

And I thought symposiums were just a Tag Team method of talking too long on one subject.

22

Why can pioneers count time working on WT construction but not looking after orphans, widows, the hungry, the thirsty or the homeless?

by yesidid in

jw
friends

apart from the scripture about love being the identifying mark of a christian, it seems to me that james 1,27 and matthew 25:34-40 quoted below are the biblical priorities of a christian.. .

although preaching was not included in the three quotes i guess it would be included as christian thing to do.

it has been the thing most stressed by the watchtower hierarchy and certain hours are required to be an elder etc.. does it show something about their priorities that pioneers can count time hour for hour when working on watchtower buildings?

Incognito

Permitting 'Pioneers' to count time for these activities is a cost free method to get them to participate in giving their time to help build the WT real estate empire or to provide free labour at Bethel.

Since Pioneers must attain a set number of hours per month in the preaching work, how many Pioneers would participate in WT construction projects or at Bethel if they still needed to get their full quota of 'countable' time and in addition, earn some money to live on?

Allowing Pioneers to count their time, cost the WT absolutely nothing while benefitting both the Pioneer and the WT. The Pioneer may be involved in more enjoyable and rewarding activities than FS, while still banking countable hours to submit. The WT benefits in free labour over the long run since KHs, Assembly Halls and other projects will normally become assets of the WT eventually.

If regular 'Publishers' were permitted to count time participating in these projects, how many pubs would go searching for and participating in 'build projects' rather than go door to door? I believe the WT is well aware and know too well that few JWs would go d2d if they can get out of it.

Since so many JWs will gladly participate in these construction activities although they do not personally gain anything, what benefit to the WT would there be by allowing regular JW Publishers to count their time building KHs or other WT assets?

The WT is all about what benefits the WT. What would the WT gain in permitting Pioneers or Publishers to count their time looking after the needs of Widows, Orphans or anyone in need?

On occasions where individual JWs give of their personal time helping others (usually limited to other JWs or JW associates) following a disaster, the WT usually capitalizes and takes credit for the effort within any media coverage and within WT publications.

Edited to add: In regards to Bangalor's comment, since media coverage of individual JWs assisting in disaster relief efforts makes it appear that the the WT has arranged and is paying for these efforts, I'm sure that this publicity assists the WT to maintain their Tax Free Charitable status.

35

The letter re: coil binding the elder book

by booby in

i think if an (intelligent) questioning jw was able to read the letter about coil binding the book the impact could/should be greater.

this letter should be an embarrassment to the gb.

what blatant and stupid instructions sent to a large group of men who are supposed to be available to instruct in an intelligent way persons coming with an assortment of life's problems.

Incognito

That book is designed to make their most devoted and often abused adherents, feel 'Privileged' and 'Exclusive' as this book is for their eyes only and not to be shared or viewed by any one else. As has already been stated, there really is nothing stated in it that hasn't been printed in other, regular WT publications.

Becoming an 'Elder' often requires little more that years of butt kissing and consistently reporting at least the national average of door knocking time. Notice I said 'reporting', not necessarily doing although he will need to be viewed as doing his share.

If a practicing baptised male is liked and accepted by the other Elders and the CO, and is willing to never question anything, only saying 'Yes' and whatever else they expect to hear, he can often 'fast track' his way into this exclusive group. Of course, green handshakes to the CO never hurt his chances.

Although a small number of Elders are well intentioned, empathetic and reasonable, there are too many that 'get off' on the attention and power of the title and often offer little of benefit to the congregation.

This is mostly an exclusive old boys club, similar to the Sacred Order of Water Buffalos. All that's missing is the cigars, funny hats and the secret handshake.

Since JWs aren't to smoke, and since wearing a funny hat would be too obvious, maybe the Elders manual is a replacement for the hats. Besides, the WT is a publishing organization so it makes sense that whatever object provided only to the Elders club would be something printed.

Perhaps what's needed now is a secret handshake - or maybe, they already have one?

92

Dating a JW for 3 yrs

by justbreathe825 in

my bf and i are thinking on getting married.

i posted a foum early this week on whether or not i should get baptized.

i decided not to.. now even though he says he "doesn't care" he got upset last night when i mentioned the subject and how confused i was.

Incognito

Justbreathe825 said:

Ayyyyyy what a dilemma...I wish I could just say heck with all this and find myself a new guy but ahhhh some of us are just too weak!

If you keep telling yourself that you're too weak, that's all you'll ever be! We often become what we tell ourselves we are.

You recognized something wasn't right in your relationship, especially as it related to the JW religion and came to this discussion forum asking for advice and validation. You received the advice that you asked for and your feelings and observations were validated. Unfortunately, it seems you were told not what you wanted to hear so you make the excuse that you're too weak, implying that you'll put-up with whatever crap is thrown your way. I hope you actually have more self-esteem than that.

You might consider some of the advice given as harsh or critical. Please consider that most on this forum now regret their time as JWs and do not wish anyone else to be trapped in that lifestyle. We know full well what is expected and how JWs act and think.

Many here now wish that they were provided the advice you were given, early on before they ever became JWs. Although you're essentially a stranger to us, no one desires to see you hurt or otherwise entering a life that you'll soon realize is a mistake.

It's ultimately up to you whether you heed the advice you were given but remember, you are responsible for your own life, however it may turn out.

Go through life with your eyes open, considering all options. Don't regret decisions made because you felt obligated, unworthy or desperate.

With regard to your BF, he may be a great guy and a fellow we might all like. Unfortunately, he was brought-up as a JW and was conditioned to think and act as one. JW programing is is very ingrained, especially when a person is raised within it. Ideas taught to a child will usually be with him/her for life and are very tough to change or otherwise unlearn.

Even though you say he doesn't believe, he is happy to play 'The Game' otherwise, he wouldn't have been a Ministerial Servant (I read your "To Be" thread). I personally have a tough time believing that he doesn't believe.

Although he has taken a break to 'sew his wild oats', you have stated he fully expects to continue as a JW and becomes upset when you show any doubt or otherwise not follow through with your indoctrination into becoming a good little JW wife.

He's obviously already thought ahead to having children and he knows full well that they'll be required to attend every meeting and participate in field service. He's fooling himself (and you) if he actually thinks that they'll celebrate their birthdays or any other 'worldly' or 'pagan' celebration. They'll be required to stand in the hall at school during the National Anthem, Pledge of Allegiance or other nationalistic ceremony and also remove themselves when the class is singing Christmas songs or coloring Halloween Pumpkins.

What's a child to think if they can participate in some things and not others, especially when they've learned at the KH that those things are BAD and Jehovah hates people that do those things ?

Children desire to please their parents. Your BF continues to do anything to please his parents and I expect he's similar to your age. Your future children will not go against anything Daddy requires of them as they will be taught that Jehovah is going to kill everyone that doesn't believe in him.

As a JW man, he is considered the 'Head of the House' and his family is to be in 'full subjection' to him. If any family members living in his home are not in subjection (ie: not indoctrinated JWs), he'll likely be criticised and probably never be given a position (Ministerial Servant, Elder) and may even come to despise you for his lack of status in the congregation.

As you can see, this 'religion' makes life very complicated. What is written above has only scratched the surface. There is lots to consider.

Here is a link to recent thread where a young woman similar to yourself, is dating/living with a JW boy: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/social/relationships/200083/1/Need-advice-about-JW-boyfriend

In addition, view the BEST OF TOPICS section of this forum as there are many other threads written on this subject.

Good Luck!

(Oops, I said LUCK. Another NoNo for a JW)