Posts by rockhound

34

Independent Thinking

by Jeffro in

i decided to do a search of the watchtower library cd on the phrase 'independent thinking'.

only three times is it ever spoken of as being a good thing.

and those three instances are quite telling about the insidiousness of all of the other times that jw publications consider independent thinking to be such a bad thing.. .

Hi all, "The nail that sticks up, gets hammered down" It's sites like ours, that expose the reason that the Society comes down so hard on those who ask the dreaded Question "WHY", and "WHERE" in the Bible does it say that?"

This information by Alan F and found at the address below has been very helpful in understanding why independent thinking is such a danger and threat to high control groups as the Moonies and Jehovah's Witnesses. Thank you Alan F for making this site available. I hope all Lurkers will check these articles out. Get out the pop and popcorn for this site, as it is just full of the dreaded Independent Thinking!!!

http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/thinking-ability-and-watchtower.html#geo

Thinking Ability and the Watchtower Society

Comment:

This is just a small portion of the above research.

One man became a leader in the Korean based Unification Church of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon, commonly known as the "Moonies." After leaving the church he wrote a book about his experience. The book stated:

Another key aspect of thought control involves training members to block out any information which is critical of the group. A person's typical defense mechanisms are twisted so they defend the person's new [religious] identity against his old former identity. The first line of defense includes denial ("What you say isn't happening at all"), rationalization ("This is happening for a good reason"), justification ("This is happening because it ought to"), and wishful thinking ("I'd like it to be true so maybe it really is").

If information transmitted .... is perceived as an attack on either the leader, the doctrine or the group, a hostile wall goes up. Members are trained to disbelieve any criticism....

Loyalty and devotion are the most highly respected emotions of all....

People are not allowed to talk to each other about anything critical of the leader, doctrine, or organization. Members must spy on each other and report improper activities or comments to leaders.... Most importantly, people are told to avoid contact with ex-members or critics. [ Steven Hassan, Combatting Cult Mind Control, pp. 62-65, Park Street Press, Rochester, Vermont, 1990.]

Does this description not fit Jehovah's Witnesses perfectly? When people put into practice the defense mechanisms described above, are they not being dishonest with themselves? If you are dishonest with yourself, refusing to face the hard facts of reality, how can you be honest with others? How can you be honest with God? How can a person claim to love truth when he can apply his reasoning abilities to expose the fallacies of others but is incapable of applying them to himself? Yet experience shows this is exactly the way Jehovah's Witnesses are indoctrinated.

I hope this information is helpful.

ROCKHOUND

37

PROVE ME WRONG! JW's were the only religion to oppose Hitler

by truthsearcher in

this statement was made to me and i want to refute it with verifiable information on other denominations.

anyone with ideas?.

rockhound

Here is something that may be of interest:

I found this here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1252/is_7_132/ai_n15660325

Polish Catholics and their church were left to suffer in isolation, and their suffering intensified until 1942. The Germans, knowing Catholicism to be a sacramental and hierarchical religion, attacked the church at these levels. Thirty-nine of western Poland's forty-six bishops were deported, imprisoned, or otherwise put down. Priests were jailed or sent to concentration camps--2,800 to Dachau alone, of whom all but 816 died. In one diocese, 291 of 646 priests were killed. By mid-1942, only 10 priests remained in the diocese of Gnesen to administer the sacraments to 359,000 Catholics. A staggering 20 percent of Poland's clergy failed to survive the war.

Because he believed the war effort required internal unity, Hitler did not allow high-ranking subordinates such as Himmler and Martin Bormann to persecute the church to this extent in Germany. But no such restriction inhibited them in Poland, where the hierarchy were suppressed through deportation and arrest, and where religious communities were suppressed. The Nazis closed innumerable churches and used many as barracks, garages, or warehouses. They shut down seminaries, forbade ordinations, and banned Catholic organizations. Administering the sacraments was strictly limited, especially Sunday Eucharist and confession. Or, if confession was allowed, the penitent was not allowed to receive Communion (at the time, the two sacraments were usually taken together). Thus did the Nazis attempt to disrupt religious life entirely in occupied Poland.

Killing was widespread as well. Gauleiter Arthur Greiser, the Nazi administrator of the Wartheland, killed thousands of Catholics in northwestern Poland. Throughout the war, hundreds of thousands of Poles were shipped to Germany as forced laborers. The bodies of those who died in transit were thrown into roadside ditches. The Germans also sterilized young Polish men and women by using x-rays on their reproductive organs. And as they had done earlier in Germany, they killed patients in Polish mental hospitals. At a facility in Chelm, 428 children were given morphine, then shot. Many patients in medical hospitals were simply thrown out. Initially, most of those imprisoned or murdered by the Nazis were Catholic leaders in the business, political, academic, and religious realms. Until 1942, for example, there were more Catholic prisoners in Auschwitz than Jews.

ROCKHOUND

184

UPDATE!: THEY ALL ADMITTED EGGING US -Elders now know, heads are rolling!!

by Lady Liberty in

jw
friends

oh.... how the saga goes on!!

i swear we could write a novel about our life exiting the watchtower!!

ok..many of you read what happened..our house was egged and so was my sisters car that was parked here, and "frosty" was attacked!!

rockhound

Has this incident been blown all out of proportion? Hardly! Could the Frosty be fixed? No doubt! Could the eggs be cleaned up? It has probably been done already. An act of vandalisim? Certainly! But the real ROT lies in the motive, and what made it alright in all their eyes. When Adam and Eve ate a small piece of fruit from a fruit tree in the garden, was Jehovah God overreacting by condemning them to death. Was it the loss of a single piece of fruit that was so offensive to God,and the real issue? The real issue was the motive behind their actions. In the case of Lady Liberty's molested frosty, the motive behind those who took improper liberties with "Frosty" was religious bigotry and ''Hatred" Note the following:

Check this article out:

Why So Much Hate?

Norman Hovland

found at this address: http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/why-so-much-hate.html

In part, Norman commented:

The article also mentions different causes for such hatred:

"All of us know people whose characteristics or habits may irritate us at times and with whom we find it hard to interact. But irritation is one thing; the desire to do people bodily harm is something else. We, therefore, may find it difficult to comprehend how a person can nurse feelings of hatred for entire groups of people, oftentimes people he does not even know. They may disagree with his political views, belong to a different religion, or be of another ethnic group, but is that a reason to hate them?" (Awake! September 8, 1997, page 4)

It is unfortunately a fact that people hate each other from totally irrational reasons.

In particular we see many exampleswhere differences in religious views have lead to horrible tragedies and enormous suffering. The Awake! magazine continues with an article titled: "A World Taught to Hate". This article mentions elements like political elections, ruthless politicians, clergy who wants to be popular and make money, rearing of children, videogames and racism, as causes for such hatred.

What about Jehovah's Witnesses?

What is the attitude of Jehovah's Witnesses towards this problem? Are they different from "worldly people" in this matter? Let us find out:...

ROCKHOUND

59

JWs Egged Our House and Yanked Out Our "Frosty"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Lady Liberty in

jw
friends

hello everyone.."happy new years"!.

well, we had a wonderful first christmas, filled with lots of family and friends.

unfortunately though our neighbors who are active jws..(who are approx.

rockhound

Louis Brandeis, the great justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, got it exactly right: "Sunlight is the best disinfectant."

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" -Edmund Burke (1729-1797)

These JW's had their good time ( at your expense) and then went back to their party. After the deed was done, and their fun was interupted by the sound from your window, they no doubt had second thoughts, because someone may have found them out. Calling the police and getting this on public record, was as excellent first step. Now though, the party is over and the darkness is past. They had their lunch, and now it's time for you to have your dinner, and disinfect their aggressive behavior with "Sunlight". Expose these men and especially the organization behind their actions. To do nothing, would only encourage others under the cover of darkness to do the same, and possibly take their evil to a higher level. They feel that they can get away with this, because you no longer run with them, and this gives them license. This is NOT just harmless fun on their part, but aggressive physical action against your family that is definitely "Religious Persecution" and should be fought and exposed to the whole community. Stop it dead in it's tracks, and send the JW's in your area a message that is loud and clear, that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated. Use the power of the press, and stay within the law. Witnesses in your area will have their hands full at the doors explaining this disgrace, especially after canvasing the whole country with their latest tract showing the difference between false religion and true.

ROCKHOUND

7

1914 and 144,000 questions?

by changtech in

jw
friends

i was wondering if anyone knew some good websites that deal with these issues?

i am going to be talking with a very knowledgeable witness, who is allowing me to show my points about why i disagree with these topics.. so i need some well researched material to talk about!.

thank you so much :).

rockhound

This info will have him mumbleing to himself.

http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/1914.htm

ROCKHOUND

7

1914 and 144,000 questions?

by changtech in

jw
friends

i was wondering if anyone knew some good websites that deal with these issues?

i am going to be talking with a very knowledgeable witness, who is allowing me to show my points about why i disagree with these topics.. so i need some well researched material to talk about!.

thank you so much :).

rockhound

There is a world of information on this subject at the following site. Enjoy!!!!

http://corior.blogspot.com/

ROCKHOUND

8

From my tiny cabin in Vt. to each of you.. Merry Christmas.....

by Cabin in the woods in

jw
friends

http://www.asilentnightmovie.com/

rockhound

Thank you for posting that movie site. My wife and I thought deeply about those words set to music. A perfect ending to a very special day with our family. I felt the urge to go out into the silent darkness of the cold winter night and enjoy a moment of quiet reflection.

ROCKHOUND

21

Need Help With Mexico/ Malawi!!

by Anitar in

huge news everyone!

i recently had a breakthrough with my mom.

we were debating last night for several hours, during which time brought up the mexico/malawi situation, which she of course being a faithful and blind witness, knew nothing about.

rockhound

Anitar,

I did a little digging for you, and found some info on the Mexico/Malawi scandal. I hope this helps!!

http://www.reexamine.org/wtobserver/apps/pbcs.dll/article6dbe.html?AID=/20040320/JWANDSOCIETY/10526043

I hope you are successful.

ROCKHOUND

21

How did Rutherford do it?

by NanaR in

back at the time that rutherford revealed the "new light" regarding the great multitude as an earthly rather than heavenly class, how did he manage to convince people to stop partaking of the emblems?.

i have wondered about this for years.

my grandmother was born around the "turn" of the 19th century to the 20th century.

rockhound

Maybe it was because of a tried-and-true principle of behavioral psychology called the "variable ratio reinforcement schedule". Basically, people ( and rats) will persist in doing something, even with little or no return, if they are given the tiniest bit of hope of a coming reward. The "Paradise Earth" hope may have seemed more attainable than "Heaven"

ROCKHOUND

3

"No one will be so foolish..."

by rockhound in

the following was found in an article ( jws and necromancy) by ken raines.

http://www.premier1.net/~raines/necromancy.html.

i found rutherford's comment in 1934 to be a major conflict with the present watchtower teaching about the 24 elders communicating somehow with brooklyn today.. on page 144 of the finished mystery they again stated their belief that the now "spirit being" c. t. russell was directing their work from beyond the grave:.

rockhound

The following was found in an article ( JWs and Necromancy) by Ken Raines

http://www.premier1.net/~raines/necromancy.html

I found Rutherford's comment in 1934 to be a major conflict with the present Watchtower teaching about the 24 Elders communicating somehow with brooklyn today.

On page 144 of The Finished Mystery they again stated their belief that the now "spirit being" C. T. Russell was directing their work from beyond the grave:

... though Pastor Russell has passed beyond the veil,he is managing every feature of the harvest work.

In the November 1, 1917 Watch Tower they also said:

This work is conducted by the WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY, a corporation organized for that purpose by Pastor Russell years ago, and which, without doubt, was organized under the Lord's direction, and which was managed and directed by Pastor Russell until his death....

Hence our dear Pastor, now in glory, is without doubt, manifesting a keen interest in the Harvest work, and is permitted by the Lord to exercise some strong influence thereupon. (Revelation 14:17) It is not unreasonable to conclude that he has been privileged to do, in connection with the Harvest work, things which he could not do while with us.

Although we recognize that the Lord is the great Master and Director of the Harvest, yet we recognize thatHe would privilege the saints beyond the veil to have a part in the work on this side; and thus all the saints, both in Heaven and upon earth, are now given the honor of concluding the work on this side, preparatory to the full establishment of the Kingdom of Glory. [4]The Watch Tower, November 1, 1917 p. 325.

Later in 1934,perhaps as a result of this, Rutherford wrote the following clear-cut denunciation of trying to communicate with Russell or any other dead "saint." He denounced the belief that the dead were directing the Society's work. This appeared in the May 1 Watchtower and in his book Jehovah. There he said:

All at the temple will realize that their spiritual food comes to them from their Teachers, Jehovah and Christ Jesus, and not from any man. No one will be so foolish as to conclude that some brother (or brethren) at one time amongst them, and who has died and gone to heaven, is now instructing the saints on earth and directing them as to their work.[9]The Watchtower, May 1, 1934 p. 131; J. F. Rutherford, Jehovah, (Brooklyn, New York: Watchtower, Bible & Tract Society) 1934 p. 191.

Rutherford may be correct in calling such beliefs "foolish" but it was he who had the Finished Mystery published that promoted the idea that "some brother", who died and went to heaven, namely Russell, was directing those on earth.

His clear rejection in 1934 of this did not end the matter of the Society itself, let alone those with the dreaded "elective elder spirit," promoting the idea that the dead are communicating truth to those on earth. In recent years they have seemingly "resurrected" the idea.

In the 1988 book Revelation&endash;Its Grand Climax at Hand! they say on page 125:

This suggests that the resurrected ones of the 24&endash;elders group may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today.

Thus they currently teach that the departed spirits of the anointed class "may be involved in the communicating of divine truths today" to those on earth.

It would seem that someone foolish enough ,did come along after all!!!

ROCKHOUND