Posts by rockhound

182

Please share a quote that you enjoy...

by nvrgnbk in

jw
friends

nothing contributes so much to tranquilize the mind as a steady purpose--.

a point on which the soul may fix its intellectual eye.. mary shelley.

rockhound

"God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time."

- Robin Williams, commenting on the Clinton/Lewinsky affair

49

How The Organization Hooks You With "Privileges"

by minimus in

jw
friends

right from the beginning, you are bombarded with others telling you what a "privilege" it is to "be used" in the organization.

especially if you're a male, it is easy to get hooked by the elder's lines.....for example, a male is given the "privilege" of "handling the microphones" if they put in enough time in the ministry and they aren't setting a bad example.

if you're "faithful in what is least", greater privileges await you.

rockhound

I remember talking to an elder in our congregation about trying to encourage young brothers by asking them to pass the mics to get them involved in cong. activities. Then, if they enjoyed helping out, ask them to help with something else. Before long, they would be involved in all kinds of cong. activities. The elder said he would talk to the the other elders, and get back to me. Their answer was that anyone that wanted to enjoy the privilege of passing the mics, would have to first reach out in the ministery, get his hours up, have good meetings attendence, etc., so the answer was no, they would continue to do it their way. I told them that you don't say to the wood stove, "Give me some heat, and then I will put some wood in you". That's not the way things work. First you put wood into the stove, and then the heat will come out. Needless to say, my illistration was not appreciated. The elders were more concerned with their rules and regulations, than they were in helping the youth in the congregation.

ROCKHOUND

28

Prophetic Speculations - What a Sad List of Embarrasing Dissappointments

by Lady Liberty in

thank you alan feuerbacher!!http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/some-prophetic-speculations.html.

some prophetic speculationsalan feuerbacher.

1831: william miller begins preaching christ's return in the fall of 1843.. 1842: miller and followers begin publishing a journal, the midnight cry.. 1843, late: miller and followers disappointed; fix christ's return in the spring of 1844.. 1844, spring: miller and followers disappointed; fix christ's return on october 22, 1844.. 1844, late: miller and followers anticipate disappointment.. 1844, october 21: miller says: "i told some of my brethren christ would not come on the morrow" because the second coming would be "in an hour they think not".

rockhound

1980:

The Society admits to having had some share in the disappointment.

Could someone comment on how this was done? By what means did the Society do this? Was it by means of word of mouth, or was it in a publication? Exactly how was it worded?

Dear Pallbearer,

The following site will help to show that the society used all sources available: Watchtowers, Awakes, Kingdom Ministries, Assembly talks, the gossip mill

C:\Documents and Settings\don\Desktop\research info\1975 info\Watchtower, Jehovah's Witnesses 1975 prophecy quotes - false prophecies, dates, end times, last days.mht

Rockhound

10

When/If the society accepts Jerusalem's destruction in 586 BCE...

by B_Deserter in

607 and 586 are 31 years apart, so adding 31 years to the witness timetable makes the end of the gentile times 1945. i guarantee you that if this happens, the watchtower will try to tie in the end of world war ii to this.

they'll say that the world wars were a culmination of the old world, a conclusion, and since there haven't been any world wars since (fingers crossed) that proves that we are now living in the last legs of the old system of things..

rockhound

The Society admits, and even brags that they have added to the

" Good news of God" that Jesus Christ used to preach in the Middle East. To get rid of the foot that they have stuffed in their own mouth would undermine all they hold dear about their brand of "Good News" about 1914 that is so different from the kind of good news that Christendom has been telling the world about for hundereds of years. Check these quotes out and apply Gal.1: 6-9 to them.

***

w815/1p.17IfGodHasanOrganization,WhatIsIt?

3 Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah’s Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918.They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah’s Witnesses is really "gospel," or "good news," as of God’s heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914

***

w831/1p.12TheKingdomIssuetotheFore!***

Properly, then, the ending of the Gentile Times in the latter half of 1914 still stands on a historical basis as one of the fundamental Kingdom truths to which we must hold today.

***

w6712/15p.753WhatNowDistinguishestheGoodNewstoBePreached***

EVER since the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 something of very present importance has been added to the "good news of God" that Jesus Christ used to preach in the Middle East, preaching to as many cities as possible, just as he said on one

***

w6712/15p.753WhatNowDistinguishestheGoodNewstoBePreached***

What vital thing has now been added to the good news of the kingdom of God that Jesus Christ and his zealous apostles used to preach nineteen hundred years ago? This, namely, the birth of God’s Messianic kingdom in the heavens at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. And after the ensuing war in the invisible heavens and the ouster of Satan the Devil and his demons from heaven and down to earth, this announcement was sounded forth, to be added to the good news, as stated in Revelation 12:9-12:

***

w6712/15p.753WhatNowDistinguishestheGoodNewstoBePreached***

All this additional wonderful information has been true since the end of the "appointed times of the nations" in 1914, and particularly since World War I closed in the year 1918. Not before the "appointed times of the nations" ended in the fall of 1914 could the good news be preached of the newborn, established heavenly kingdom of God and of his Messiah.

Trying to dismantle the importance of 1914 would be like trying to unring a bell, or bumping the table that a house of cards is sitting upon. But then, how many of the faithful would even notice? or even care? How many even noticed when the society made the above quotes about adding to the "Good News" and calling it "additional wonderful information"

Rockhound

26

Deaths Due to Watchtower Blood Doctrine - Statistic on one patient populat

by Marvin Shilmer in

deaths due to watchtower blood doctrine - statistics on one patient population.

to date there is no vetted study of records offering estimates of overall mortality and morbidity attributable to the wts blood doctrine.

vetted literature frequently expresses adherence to the wts blood doctrine as causing premature death and/or disease, but the question of overall mortality and morbidity is very complex and, so far, unaddressed statistically.

rockhound

Hi Marvin

I found this info on AJWRB site: http://www.ajwrb.org/science/risks1.shtml

Just What Are The Risks?

A investigation into the risks associated with blood transfusions reveals that your chances of contracting AIDS from contaminated blood are somewhere between 1 in 83,000 and 1 in 660,000 depending on which scientific source you accept. You will be able to verify this for yourself if you follow the references in The Library of Blood Links. Or if you want to learn the facts about transfusion risks right now, follow this link to the American Association of Blood Banks

If we compare this to other medical risks, the figures take on more meaning. For instance, if you have general anesthesia, your chances of having a reaction and dying are between 1 in 15,000 and 1 in 30,000. If you accept penicillin, your chances of a fatal reaction are about 1 in 30,000. Clearly, there is a far greater chance of dying as a result of general anesthesia or antibiotic treatment than there is of contracting AIDS through a blood transfusion.

The Watchtower Society (WTS) partially quotes and thus acknowledges a study indicating that for every 13,000 blood transfusions, there is one death. This is a slightly greater risk than that associated with taking an antibiotic, or having general anesthesia. The society also acknowledges a study which indicates the refusal of blood during surgery increases mortality by approximately 1%. (A chart published in the February 1993 issue of 'The American Journal of Medicine' shows that studies based on 1,404 operations mostly cardiovascular surgery and hip replacement performed on Jehovah's Witnesses (JW) without blood transfusions reveal that 1.4 percent of the patients died due to lack of blood as a primary or contributing cause of death.) This means that every time a JW has "bloodless surgery" his chance of dying is 1% greater. Expressed another way, for every 100 hundred operations, there is one unnecessary death. Multiply this by many years and thousands upon thousands of operations, add to it those who die from massive blood loss before making it to surgery, factor in the victims of childbirth complications, leukemia and related blood disorders, and what you have is the needless deaths of many thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses. (Compare WT 10/15/93 p. 32)

We wish that we could provide some hard numbers, but for obvious reasons, the Society chooses not to document these deaths. We will attempt to illustrate the human cost. According to published reports, in 1994 there were 22.6 million surgical procedures performed in the United States. For the purpose of our illustration, we will assume that only 25% of these procedures would qualify as major surgery, or approximately 5.6 million cases. Based upon the WTS published figures, we can extrapolate that approximately 20,600 of these surgeries were carried out upon Witnesses (U.S. publisher ratio is 1:270). Since we know that a refusal to accept blood increases the mortality risk by approximately one percent, we can conservatively estimate that 206 Witnesses died in the United States, directly as a result of refusing blood therapy. Furthermore, there are 5.4 million Witnesses publishing the good news as of 1996. Less than one million of these were in the United States. So we can conservatively multiply this figure by a factor of five. The resulting estimate shows that approximately 1000 Jehovah's Witnesses die annually as a result of the blood prohibition.

It might be added that although the 1000 deaths per year figure seems large. It translates to less that one death for each 5,500 Witnesses annually. This means that in an average circuit of 2000 Witnesses, we would expect to see only one death about every three years. In the average congregation, we would expect to see a death only once every fifty years. H.L.C. members, and experienced elders will generally testify that the death rate they have witnessed actually exceeds that produced with this illustration.

There are so many assumptions made here, that these figures cannot be considered to be a reliable estimate. However, it should be remembered that these estimates do not take into consideration the Witnesses who bleed to death in emergency rooms from massive blood loss, those who die from diseases like leukemia, or those who otherwise bleed to death and never make it to the operating room. Additionally, JWs in the United States benefit from a higher standard of care than do many in other lands. This is especially the case with respects to "non-blood, alternative therapies," requiring special equipment and techniques not available in many lands.

The actual figures may be higher or lower. This is simply the best that we can offer at this time, although we are making an ongoing effort to improve the accuracy of our estimates.

To read the WTS Society's literature, one would never get the impression that JWs are dying at this rate. Blood is portrayed as some polluted substance that should be avoided like germ infected puss. And doctors who advocate it's use are vilified.

This is not to say that blood is without risks. Like any other organ transplant or serious surgery, there can be problems and complications, and these are on rare occasion fatal. For instance, if you have a blood transfusion there is a risk of contracting Hepatitis. This risk is less than one percent, and the condition is not necessarily fatal.

The risk of a developing a significant hemolytic transfusion reaction, enough to cause significant morbidity or mortality, is between 1/10,000 and 1/25,000 per unit. See Canadian Journal of Anesthesia, 1992, 39:8, pg 823. This agrees roughly with the figure quoted by the society of one death for every 13,000 transfusions.

Should this risk cause you to reject a necessary blood transfusion? Consider this, if you were seriously injured or suffering from a life threatening illness, and your doctor told you that you had a 99% chance of recovery if he operated, what would you do? Would you reason that the risks of the operation were just too high? This is, in essence what the WTS is arguing with respects to the use of blood.

If a blood transfusion can be avoided, by all means avoid it. This is not a radical thought to health care professionals. If a diseased organ can be treated with drugs or surgery this is usually preferable to an organ transplant. The same can be said about blood transfusions. Often times they can be avoided, and are not truly necessary. Doctors have no interest or desire to provide unnecessary blood transfusions, as they are quite well aware of the risks.

Bear in mind too, that when we talk in terms of a Witness having a blood transfusion,we are discussing a life or death situation, probably massive trauma and blood loss. What is the risk of dying in this situation if one does not take a blood transfusion? We have all heard of the stories where Witnesses have survived in these situations, but many die unnecessarily.

This is a good site to book mark

Rockhound

14

WT admits they have added to the "Good News" that Jesus preached

by rockhound in

i was looking over some of the archives in "the best of" section of jwd and found some very important quotes of the watchtower that may be of use to all.

keep in mind the warning in galations 1: 6-9 .

6 i marvel that you are being so quickly removed from the one who called you with christs undeserved kindness over to another sort of good news.

rockhound

Manjana

The "Good News" that Jesus presented to mankind did not need additional information about 1874 or later changed to 1914 to be added to it. I think the following site will fill you in more about the history of this date, and what the Watchtower was teaching about it before the year 1914 and then afterwards.

http://www.xjw.com/1914lies.html

Rockhound

14

WT admits they have added to the "Good News" that Jesus preached

by rockhound in

i was looking over some of the archives in "the best of" section of jwd and found some very important quotes of the watchtower that may be of use to all.

keep in mind the warning in galations 1: 6-9 .

6 i marvel that you are being so quickly removed from the one who called you with christs undeserved kindness over to another sort of good news.

rockhound

I was looking over some of the archives in "The Best of" section of JWD and found some very important Quotes of the Watchtower that may be of use to all. Keep in mind the warning in Galations 1: 6-9

***

Rbi8Galatians1:6-9***

6

I marvel that YOU are being so quickly removed from the One who called YOU with Christ’s undeserved kindness over to another sort of good news. 7 But it is not another; only there are certain ones who are causing YOU trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ. 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to YOU as good news something beyond what we declared to YOU as good news, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said above, I also now say again, Whoever it is that is declaring to YOU as good news something beyond what YOU accepted, let him be accursed.

Now check out the following admissions of the Watchtower.

***

w881/1p.21"TheGoodNewsHastoBePreachedFirst"***

8 In "the last days," the good news of the Kingdom involves more than it did when Jesus was on earth. Jesus preached that the Kingdom had drawn near, drawing attention to the fact that he was among the people as the Messiah and King. (2 Timothy 3:1; Matthew 4:17; Luke 17:21) The good news preached by the early Christians included the matter of Jesus’ resurrection and ascension to heaven, and it encouraged meek ones to put faith in the coming Kingdom. (Acts 2:22-24, 32; 3:19-21; 17:2, 3; 26:23; 28:23, 31) Now that we have reached "the conclusion of the system of things," the preaching of the good news of the Kingdom includes the striking message that the Kingdom is established in the heavens.—Revelation 11:15-18; 12:10

***

w815/1p.17IfGodHasanOrganization,WhatIsIt?***

3 Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah’s Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah’s Witnesses is really "gospel," or "good news," as of God’s heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. (Luke 21:24)

***

w6712/15pp.753-754WhatNowDistinguishestheGoodNewstoBePreached***

What

NowDistinguishestheGoodNewstoBePreached

EVER since the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 something of very present importance has been added to the "good news of God" that Jesus Christ used to preach in the Middle East,

preaching to as many cities as possible, just as he said on one occasion: "Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth." (Luke 4:43; 8:1; 16:16) After his death and resurrection and his glorification in heaven, his apostles and faithful disciples preached the good news of the coming kingdom of God. (Acts 20:24, 25; 28:30, 31) What vital thing has now been added to the good news of the kingdom of God that Jesus Christ and his zealous apostles used to preach nineteen hundred years ago? This, namely, the birth of God’s Messianic kingdom in the heavens at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. And after the ensuing war in the invisible heavens and the ouster of Satan the Devil and his demons from heaven and down to earth, this announcement was sounded forth, to be added to the good news, as stated in Revelation 12:9-12:

2 "Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! . . . On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time."

3 What a joy-inspiring addition or enlargement to the good news now to be preached! Now has come the victorious kingdom of our God together with the authority of his Christ, his Messiah! As for Satan the Devil and his demons, they have only a short period of time until they are bound and imprisoned in the abyss after the "war of the great day of God the Almighty" at Armageddon.All this additional wonderful information has been true since the end of the "appointed times of the nations" in 1914, and particularly since World War I closed in the year 1918. Not before the "appointed times of the nations" ended in the fall of 1914 could the good news be preached of the newborn, established heavenly kingdom of God and of his Messiah. This, then, must be the good news that Jesus Christ in his prophecy said had to be preached first in all the nations. (Mark 13:10) This generation of human society that has seen and experienced the world events since the Gentile Times closed in 1914—this is the "generation" that will not pass away until all the things foretold have happened, including the preaching of the good news first in all nations.

4 Jesus’ prophecy in Mark 13:10, "Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first," has not been undergoing fulfillment during the past nineteen centuries. It is only since the second decade of our twentieth century that this prophecy has been undergoing fulfillment. This began to be realized by the International Bible Students Association and the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society since the end of the second decade of our century. In the magazine issue of July 1, 1920, of TheWatchTowerandHeraldofChrist’sPresence the article was published entitled "Gospel of the Kingdom" and based on the theme text, "‘And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.’—Matthew 24:14." In the last six paragraphs it said:

5 "It will be noted he does not say the gospel that has been preached to the meek throughout the entire Gospel age shall be preached. What gospel then could he mean? The gospel means good news. The good news here is concerning the end of the old order of things and the establishment of Messiah’s kingdom. It means the dark night of sin and sorrow is passing away. It means that Satan’s empire is falling, never to rise again. It means the sun of righteousness is rising rapidly, its healing beams penetrating the darkness and driving back that which obscures the truth and bringing to the people that which will bless, comfort, strengthen and uplift them. . . .

6 "It will be observed that in the order named this message must be delivered between the time of the great world war and the time of the ‘great tribulation’ mentioned by the Master in Matthew 24:21, 22.This message could not have been delivered prior to the beginning of the world war. Clearly, then, the Master intended for us to understand that a time would come when the church must declare to the world as a witness that the old order is ending and will shortly pass away forever. . . .

7 "What a blessed privilege the church now has of being the ambassadors of the Lord’s kingdom and engaging in delivering the good news."—Pages 199, 200.

8 Since the publishing of that new, up-to-date understanding of the prophetic words of Jesus Christ more and more evidence has piled up in the world events and conditions and in the experience of the International Bible Students to prove that God’s Messianic kingdom was indeed born in the heavens at the due time in 1914 and that "this good news of the kingdom" means the fresh, brand-new information that tells of God’s established kingdom. No news of the day could surpass that for real goodness. For this reason the whole world of mankind deserved to hear this good news, "this gospel of the kingdom." (Matt. 24:14, AV;NW) And according to Jesus Christ all the world of mankind has to hear it. "In all the nations the good news has to be preached," said he.—Mark 13:10.

Show these Quotes to the next witness that tells you that Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones preaching the same "Good News" that Jesus and the apostles preached.

Rockhound

100

What do you think is behind the watchtower change in 2008 ?

by 5go in

i think it's an atempt to catch faders or atleast make active dubs feel special.

it also could be a cost cutting measure to though.

getting rid of the km's and even up awakes and watchtowers would save some trees.

rockhound

My question: If the following statements "are still true", and as we all know, the Watchtower is the main means to spread the "Good News of the Kingdom" , then how will the people of the world get any spiritual food? No main study article, No spiritual food for the people of the world!!

1930 [since 1879 the Watchtower] "has been the means of communicating truth to those who love the Lord. All those who love God supremely believe that The Watchtower was started and has been maintained by his power and grace." (Light, J. F. Rutherford, 1930, p. 12)

1931 The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of any of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in the Watchtower. (Watchtower, Nov. 1 1931 p. 327)

1937 "The Watchtower is issued twice each month and brings to its readers the current report which the Lord, in the exercise of his loving-kindness, manifests in the unfolding of his prophecies to those who are devoted to him....the Watchtower being the means the Lord is pleased to use to transmit his message of truth to the people, it is a real comfort to the remnant and the other sheep of the Lord to have this given to the regularly twice each month." (1937 Yearbook, p. 82)

1939 "It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communicating to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." (1939 Yearbook Of Jehovah's Witnesses, P 85)

ROCKHOUND

5

A case of "Monkey see, Monkey do"?

by rockhound in

does any of this sound a little familiar?

from childhood the irish have been taught that every religion in the world is opposed to their religion, that theirs is the only one having divine right to exist, that all other religions are merely tolerated and that they continue through the benevolent sufferance of the catholic clergy.

they are taught that bible knowledge is not necessary for christians, only a strict adherence to and belief in the church and its religious leaders is all-important.

rockhound

Hi Startingover,

I copied this quote from the Watchtower 2001 CD

1958 Aug. 1st Watchtower

Article "Dawn a new era for the Irish"

ROCKHOUND

5

A case of "Monkey see, Monkey do"?

by rockhound in

does any of this sound a little familiar?

from childhood the irish have been taught that every religion in the world is opposed to their religion, that theirs is the only one having divine right to exist, that all other religions are merely tolerated and that they continue through the benevolent sufferance of the catholic clergy.

they are taught that bible knowledge is not necessary for christians, only a strict adherence to and belief in the church and its religious leaders is all-important.

rockhound

Does any of this sound a little familiar?

***

w588/1p.460DawnsaNewErafortheIrish***

From childhood the Irish have been taught that every religion in the world is opposed to their religion, that theirs is the only one having divine right to exist, that all other religions are merely tolerated and that they continue through the benevolent sufferance of the Catholic clergy. They are taught that Bible knowledge is not necessary for Christians, only a strict adherence to and belief in the church and its religious leaders is all-important. To keep their flocks from reading Bible literature the clergy tell their parishioners that it is communistic. This seems to frighten them sufficiently so they will not investigate for themselves.

Fear has a great hold on the people. People are afraid of what their neighbors, their friends, relatives and clergy might think if they were even so much as to read the Bible on their own. For centuries the clergy have dominated their lives, told them what they can read, To ask a sound religious question is a demonstration of lack of faith in God and the church, according to the clergy. As a result, the Irish people do very little independent thinking. They are victims of the clergy and fear; but freedom is in sight.

Could this be a case of "Monkey see, Monkey do" or the "Pot calling the Kettle black"?

ROCKHOUND