Posts by confuzzlediam

10

Outline - elders meeting with pioneers

by naeuca in

if you happen to have the outline for this years annual pioneer meeting with elders can you please copy and paste to me in reply or send me the link i'm pdf please.

thank you very much know advance!

naeuca.

confuzzlediam

I like to look up the meaning to words that I am not quite sure of the definition. I know the general gist of what charisma is, but after seeing what was written as a definition by the society for kharisma, I thought I would check it out. I first searched for the spelling that the society used, but it changed it to "charisma" each time I searched. What I found was VERY interesting...

This is the society's version, which is spelled Kharisma: "The word “gift” here is translated from the Greek word kharisma. From the Scriptural stand-point, kharisma is a gift received thanks to God’s undeserved kindness (w98 2/15 24-26)"

This is the definition that I found via The Free Dictionary online:

cha·ris·ma

(kə-rĭz′mə)

n. pl. cha·ris·ma·ta (-mə-tə)

1.

a. A rare personal quality attributed to leaders who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm.

b. Personal magnetism or charm: a television news program famed for the charisma of its anchors.

2. also char·ism (kăr′ĭz′əm) Christianity An extraordinary power, such as the ability to perform miracles, granted by the Holy Spirit.

[Greek

kharisma

,

divine favor

,

from

kharizesthai

,

to favor

,

from

kharis

,

favor

;

see

gher-

in

Indo-European

roots.]

Note that the Greek meaning for "kharisma" is divine favor. Maybe I need to do more research on the word, but it looks to me as if the meaning in the dictionary does not match the meaning given by the society. It really should not surprise me, yet it does.

SO pioneers are considered leaders according to the definition cited here. They arouse fervent popular devotion, and have extraordinary powers that are granted by the holy spirit, or according to the society a gift received, thank to God's undeserved kindness. And are also in divine favor, according to the greek meaning.

Anyone have additional thoughts on this? Would love to hear someone else's input on this.

30

Shunning Disfellowshipped & Apostate family Members. Scriptural?

by objectivetruth in

anyone who is a witness or was previously a witness, is aware of the written & un-written rules concerning association with disfellowshipped family members.. there are a multitude of quotes through out the watchtower publications, but these 2 will suffice.. "are you proving yourself holy by not associating with family members or others who are disfellowshipped?

"the clear instruction in the bible is: avoid them.

that means that we have to stay away from them... the bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them... what must we do to avoid false teachers?

confuzzlediam

Just found this article on disfellowshipping in the November 2006 study edition:

"3. God’s servants study the Bible and Christian publications. Jehovah’s standards are discussed at their meetings, assemblies, and conventions. So Christians are in a position to know what Jehovah requires of them. Disfellowshipping takes place only if a member of the congregation unrepentantly engages in gross sin."

"4. Consider a Scriptural example of disfellowshipping. The congregation in Corinth tolerated “such fornication as [was] not even among the nations, that a wife a certain man [had] of his father.” Paul urged the Corinthians to “hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved.” (1 Corinthians 5:1-5) When disfellowshipped and thus handed over to Satan, the sinner was again part of the Devil’s world. (1 John 5:19) His expulsion removed an evil fleshly element from the congregation and preserved its godly “spirit,” or dominant attitude.—2 Timothy 4:22; 1 Corinthians 5:11-13."

Apparently, I was an evil fleshly element that needed to removed from the congregation to preserve its godly "spirit". Not only are we shunned, but we are shamed as well. Because that is what those who claim to follow Christ's example do to their fellow believers, shame us into thinking that we deserve to be treated inhumane, that we are not worthy of even a smile or greeting as we pass each other on the street. WOW!!

I have to admit, that when I was "in", I did think it was a "loving" provision. That it was necessary to keep the congregation clean. BUT on the other hand...I was torn. I still socialized with my x's mom and 2 sisters who were disfellowshipped for 15 out of the 25 years that we were married. I did not keep my kids from knowing their grandmother and aunts just because they were disfellowshipped. After all, they were kind hearted, loving women that smoked. No evil flesh existed in these women!!

SO glad they wrongfully disfellowshipped me!! Best thing EVER!!

12

Tragedy and God's Will

by cultBgone in

it's utterly amazing to me how religious belief in an omnipotent deity shapes some people's thinking.. one woman whose family missed the air asia flight which crashed stated that it was god's will to give her father hepatitis so that she canceled her family's vacation trip on that flight.

she says she believes god saved her family and protected them.

however, she later mourns the fact that she lost friends on the flight...so does she believe god deliberately planned for them to die?

confuzzlediam

This has always bothered me. How is it that God is willing to save one person from getting on that plane and yet all those who did get on it had to die? Is he that selfish that he needed more angels up in heaven as some would think? Maybe some need to believe that their loved ones are needed by God in heaven, but this goes against anything I was taught about God being a loving God. Not one that would purposefully take a loved one because he wanted another angel in heaven.

I'm also not a believer in the "power" of prayer. Why is it that some who pray regarding loved ones have their prayers answered, yet others who pray have their prayers go unanswered. Is this because one person was worthy of saving and the other was not? Was it one person's time to go and the other's not? When my SIL was dying in hospice, she begged to die, asking for us all to pray that God take her. She was done. She did not want to suffer any longer. Yet, she suffered horribly till her last dying breath. BTW she was a faithful servant of God who started pioneering after she was diagnosed with a rare sarcoma cancer. It's all a farce, in my opinion. But I may be bitter...

9

uber dub random meeting and why all the changes to the format here?!

by tiki in

ran into an uber-dub known from my history in the org......she had to be very sure i wasn't d'fed or d'aed - merely "inactive" so she could give me a big hug and inform me that she knows i'm coming back to jehovah because he understands my "hurt" and....blah blah blah.

it struck me how dependent they are on labels.......and how very stupid it is....you can hug me because i don't have the df label?

would i be a different person if i had that label?

confuzzlediam

I was wrongfully DF'd 5 years ago and joked about wearing a DF on the front of my clothing, like the letter A in the Scarlet Letter, because I had been marked for all to know that I was a sinner. People that I had known since childhood, or my BFF's from the hall, went out of their way to avoid eye contact with me, or not speaking to me but to my husband who was sitting right next to me. I hated going out in public for fear of running into someone that I knew from the congregation.

I remember telling my mom (who never stopped speaking to me) that I was still the same person, yet this label somehow defined who I was to those in the cong...someone that was looked upon as a deviant. I even tried to go back to get reinstated for my husband so his family would invite us to family functions. Which was so painful that I ended up taking meds for anxiety just to attend meetings. I might add that when his mom and sisters were DF'd for 15 out of our 25 years of marriage, I never once shunned them nor did not invite them over for dinner because they were disfellowshipped. Hell, I even went on family vacations with them. BUT when they came back, one at a time over a 5-7 year period, they all had this new lease on life so by the time I was wrongfully DF'd, they forgot the unconditional love that I showed them and shunned me, cutting me off from any family get togethers.

With the exception of when my SIL was dying. I devoted 2-3 nights a week for 4 months, to take care of her so my in-laws could get some sleep, as she was living with them at the time. The last 3 weeks she was alive, I spent all but 3 nights with her at hospice because I was the one that she had come to trust, not her parents, not her husband, not her siblings...me! She knew my heart and knew that I was the exact same person that I was before I was labeled. Sure, the family talked to me, some in the congregation talked to me while I was taking care of my SIL, but once she died, sadly it went back to the way it was. No more social interaction.

Labeling is what JW's do. From being labeled as bad association based on lack of meeting attendance or field service hours, to being over zealous because you are an elder, ms or a pioneer. Those who skirt the labeling are ones who get their 10 hours in a month, hit 2/3 of the meetings and read a scripture once in a while. That is how I lived most of my JW life.

5 years after being disfellowshipped, and recently filed for divorce from my husband of 25 years, I am a much better person and am thankful, yes thankful, that I was wrongfully df'd. I do not allow my "label" to define me and I could give 2 shits less about what anyone in the org thinks about me. I no longer feel sorry for myself, but I feel sorry for them!! I proudly wear this label now!! I wish that they could experience the freedom that I have found outside the confines of the religion. I hate what this religion does to their "followers" and hope that those who are shunned by their families and former JW friends find the freedom that I have found and stop allowing these labels to define who we are.

52

Bible's mention of physical beauty- why?

by Magnum in

for years, as i've read through the bible, i've wondered why bible writers were concerned about physical beauty (see references below)?

i realize it's human nature to be interested in beauty, but why did they see fit to record in the so-called "word of god" the fact that some of the people they wrote about were beautiful?

looks are not supposed to matter according to jw doctrine (and probably the doctrine of many christian-professing sects).

confuzzlediam

Illustrative writing. Simply the writers were being descriptive regarding their subjects. How boring would it be to read a book that had no details on what they were writing. Details on their appearance gives us something to imagine. Isn't that what writers do? Describe with detail a scene, people, or events that happened? I don't know. Maybe too simple of an explanation, without going into the differences in writers, time and place? Just a thought.

29

A possible way for the Watch Tower to generate revenue via their website.

by adjusted knowledge in

jw
friends

earlier in the week someone posted the potential value of the jw website based on visits and if they used advertisements.

many stated they would never do that but i propose they could.. besides their real estate profit making business model, they have the conventions as cash generating machines.

they give directions to their members to which hotels/motels to use.

confuzzlediam

OMG I had NO clue there was even a JW Broadcasting site!! It's been well over a year since I have been to a meeting. Makes me want to vomit.

12

(Knock Knock) Who's there?

by Coded Logic in

if jws knocked on your door what would you say?.

i know jws don't really do "ministry" anymore (just leave special campaign tracts at the door and run away as fast as they can so they don't have to talk to anyone) but if they ever actually tried to have a conversation with me i wonder what i would say.

most likely i'd ask about matthew 4:8 where it says the devil took jesus to the top of an unusually high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world.

confuzzlediam

I would kindly tell them that I am no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses and am happier for it!! I never knew enough to talk at the doors when I would go out in service. I LOVED the tract work, because I didn't have to talk at the door. Was too fearful that someone would ask me to defend my faith and when I would not be able to, I depended on my partner to do the talking! Which is why I liked to work with the pioneers! They were all too eager to come to my aid! lol

5

Secrets of The Human Brain (Full Documentary)

by Brokeback Watchtower in

i find the last 30 minute very interesting;.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrlraf6hemg.

intelligence : documentary on the limits and possibilities of the human brain (full documentary).

confuzzlediam

Looks interesting! Been watching documentaries as of late. Adding this one to my list to watch!! Thanks for sharing!

6

How do you post an added post to someone else's thread????!!!!!

by blondie2 in

jw
friends

i have signed on with a new username and can start topics but cannot find where to add....this has not been a happy experience....could someone start a thread that gives specific concrete help and answer questions (for those who can post ha)

confuzzlediam

I had the same problem, but realized that I had not confirmed my new account. Give that a try...

23

Do you have someone you trust?

by myjourney in

jw
friends

hi, i'm a newbie around here.

i've been reading the posts, but reluctant to step out of my safe zone.

i definitely see how coming to a safe place to ask questions, vent, etc.

confuzzlediam

myjourney, this is a great place to come vent your concerns. It is extremely difficult to find someone on the inside to trust your feelings to. I found that even talking to some who were disfellowshipped, would not listen to me when I would start to talk against the society, which I found to be quite frustrating. If they believed, why were they not making any effort to go back??

Those who have never been a witness ARE very good listeners, yes, as my best friend has been there for me for years. But she does not completely understand what it's like to be in our shoes. She is empathetic and supportive and has been there for me for over 20 years now!! Proof that you can find AWESOME, LOYAL friends who are NOT witnesses!!! I have found MANY more since I was disfellowshipped and they have renewed my belief that there are good people out there who love you for who you are, not for the number of meetings you go to or how many hours you submit each month for field service. They are true friends who love you unconditionally!!

It was not until I was wrongfully disfellowshipped 5 years ago next month that I really started questioning the organization. My sis had been on the cusp of disbelief for a few years before my disfellowshipping, but after I was disfellowshipped, she was done. Same with my dad. Fortunately, I have those 2 that I can talk with openly about my realizations as to the "truth". It helps to air my grievances to my sis and to my dad. When I talk to my dad, whom I look up to and trust, I KNOW that if he has questions and doubts, that there is something seriously wrong with the organization.

I am a much better person since leaving. I don't feel the weight of guilt anymore that the society puts upon us. I am still coming around to finding exactly what I DO believe in. BUT I know what I DON'T believe in anymore and that is freeing.

Feel free to message me, if you would like to talk some more. This is a difficult journey, but one that is eye opening and as I mentioned above...freeing on so many levels.

Peace to you as you move forward in your quest for truth and answers.