My mom just commented on this. She bumped into a former elder. He was delete for getting drunk on a multi family jw vacation (the kinds that are not tours of newyork) and jumped into the pool naked. My mom wondered if he was DFed or stopped going to the meetings because she said when she met him he gave her the "why are you speaking to me?" look. I think many faders fade the wrong way. There are people with lousy rf & meeting attendance that have no intention of fading and nobody notices. It is that look of cautious and uneasiness that tips them off.
XQsThaiPoes
JoinedPosts by XQsThaiPoes
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46
Dubs who shun those not DFed/DAed who fade
by gumby inlately i have been reading alot about those who cease the dub life, and though they are not officially dfed or daed, are treated as though they are by dub family and friends.
when i was a dub , i remember viewing those who did not come to meeting's anymore nor field service......as simply "weak" or inactive.
never do i remember shunning or snubbing those who seemed to fade away.
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Were Jonadabs called JWs in 1931?
by Cygnus ini was always under the assumption that the jonadabs were not called "jehovah's witnesses" but were called "companions" and other terms.
then tonight i'm reading schnell's book for the first time and he says that in a 1931 watchtower the judge used the parable of the penny to denote all watchtower adherents as jws (a gift, as it were).
what's the real scoop?
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XQsThaiPoes
Gary God bless you. You are one of the few people that ruely understand the decay of JWism from the sublime to the mundane (or maligned ). If you add the context that the wt said recently anyone studing are believers where does that leave these unsaved people? It is like a casting call for stadium scenes in movies. Anyone that shows up that day is atmitted until the fill the arena.
To the watchtower if you buy the books and read them you are good as in. The anointed never cared they never though of the other sheep as real christians anyway. THe watchtower began to promote the unity doctrine to gain control and boost the go of the RF. When are the RF going to get it in their head they are not "inheiriting the kingdom" they are not being rewarded with "eternal life". They are going to be wandering around on a scorched post apocalyptic earth ran by celestial overlords whom periodically purge this wasteland from dissent every millenia or so. From what it sounds like is the new order is the new hades because everyone not going to heaven is being dumped there.
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EVIL LOUTION? Why do you still resist? Science doesn't work?
by Terry ini resisted it for years.
i was dragged kicking and screaming into the evolution theory camp.. i would rather have had my arm lopped off at the elbow;but, facts are facts.
i had to be intellectually honest.
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XQsThaiPoes
However if you took a humanoid child born say 2,000,000 years ago, the child could have problems with adapting because of the biological limitations of the its brain.
Um I think you are wrong. Most humans are not that intelegent. Only about 2% of humans i believe are in the rocket scientist catagory. Infact reading/writing is a new evolutionary tool. Look at dyslexia a brain disorder that does not impair your life until you try to pick up a book. Infact look at humans with disabilities period. Many severly disabled people could not out bench mark a 2 million year old humanoid. Infact some great apes alive today can physically and mentally exceed some severely crippled humans.
We also have no idea if the brain of Homo erectus (I assume this is who you are talking about) is for example better ate math than humans. We know they were probally as strong or stonger than humans, not as inovative (or maybe not as lucky), and their brain is about the same size. For example some birds with their small brains are better at matching mosiac like patterns than humans. The reason is from the sky this helps them identify food and land marks. They have built in what takes pilots months to develop. Considering humans have not adapted to modern life evolutionarily yet we have no real advantage since we poped up on the radar as modern humans. Homo erectus was extinct by the time we got here. So we really cant compare too much. Outside of saying we may be smarter on average. But smarter may not always equall better adapted.
In the most of the world it is capitalist model that is promoted. So you when you say adapt you mean go to school (I assume free) become a highly skilled laborer they can be and then make as much money as they can as a responsible citizen. How ever globally the child may be living in a shanty town around a central american mega city robbing tourist, or may work in a bothel in SE asia, or work in some conflict dimond mine in africa. On the up side they may be intelegent enought to learn a sport, and become a pro athelete raking in millions. In terms of evolution survival and having sex is winning. All this 2 million year old child has to do is learn how to live. Because I doubt they could breed with todays humans they would loose even if they became a rocket scientist. But in a fluke maybe they could breed a fertile hybrid dogs and wolves do it.
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What is the Official stance of the WT about beards?
by smokin ini am an non-active jw for abaout a year, and during my inactivity i had grown a goatee (a beard at first).
my family were no to happy about it,but made no big stink.
one of my closest friends insists it is very bad.
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XQsThaiPoes
Actually it is a matter of grooming. THey leave it to local standards. By local i assume local JW standards. Such as some Jws let their boys wear ponytails or pigtails until they become around baptizing age. Then they start in on "grooming". I think it is like the amish. They dont wear mouthstaches because they claim it is associated with the military, yet they dont cut their beards. So to be a good amish you get up every day and shave above the lip. The whole idea for most JW is status. They dont wana loose "privileges" or esteem. For JWs that are the odd man out nothing they do can make them one of the cool kids. So they might as well grow a beard, or take martial arts becaus they are never going to get anything beside token duty.
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Defending the WT despite doubts
by kj ini just wanted to ask some of you a question.
i have been meeting with a jw woman for 4 months now.
i've asked her several difficult questions, and shown her a few things about the wt and their lies- including the letter from the un's website that confirmed they were an ngo for 9 years.
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XQsThaiPoes
I wana hear from JWs who have heard this "If someone gave you a Rolls Royce and it had 4 flat tires would you walk off and leave it because it could not run, Or would you stay with it anyway and fix the flats?" I have heard this or a simular arguments from JWs. It does not matter if the JWs believes you. Heck I am a JW I know most of the WT dirty deeds. I dont care. People are inheirently evil. What you expect. I just have stopped flying on auto pilot. Anyone ever deide the watchtower is no worse that phillip moris or RJ rynolds. People still work for those companies even thought smoking regularly kills millions. Do they think their product is evil and that they are being paid in blood money. Nope.
THe problem i the future is the Watchtower is making less gradious claims. They are becomeing mundane. The new converts wont have the same attatchment. It is seen today in the JW youth culture. They dont really give a crap about the watchtower. There are so few new servants the halls are running dry. To be able to enforce these werid parochial laws of JWism you have to believe they matter. RIght now if the elders get too loud a CO can chomp them down delete them. Then merge their hall if too few remain. The org is too large and too pedominately female and children to do that forever. So unless there is a mass shrinking of the RF one day the elder are going to do what they want. So instead of them thinking the watchtower being liable they will think of them selves being liable. The will accept personal resposiblity. THey will stop blaming the man upstiars.
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Honest mistakes? The Governing Body's excuses for their actions
by Terry inthe governing body tells us they are not false prophets because they admit their mistakes.. they only err because they are zealous to see the new order commence.. they are on the watch and warning everybody just like they are supposed to.. their doctrines change (new light) because they see and admit their errors.. what more can we expect of them?.
is the governing body honestly doing the best they can?
they are only human; how can we expect them to be perfect?.
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XQsThaiPoes
In all reality the GB is not the problem. Infact I think they are cute. JWs on the other hand dear lord. It is like how some americans believe in bill of rights yet think flag burning should be illegal. On one hand when the jws feel like it they toss the GB, watchtower, and bible out the window to enforce their own pet peeve, but wont grant others the same liberty.
For example if I started to pray to the GB and promoted this idea I am sure I could be DFed, but if I promoted ignoring the GB I could also be DFed. THe reason the JWs love the GB is it gives them I dont know authority, credibility, and history? Any time the GB becomes too real a treat the JW tightens the noose. I wonder whom is serving whom.
Look at the blood issue. THe have basically ordered JWs to stop writing them and stop asking the elders what is acceptable. The say dont question the GB when it gives the JW in charge authority. When it subtracts from their authority JWs get coincidental amnesia, or out right imply you are a free moral agent or there is some clause to subvert the power of the GB. Really the halls are ran by the elders. The CO is a bean counter and PR man. I was reading here about a case of a teenage homosexual that molested a child and the CO told them the case was not severe enough to report to NY. THe problem is what wordly people call corruption. JW leaders have a bad habbit of looking the other way when it suits them.
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EVIL LOUTION? Why do you still resist? Science doesn't work?
by Terry ini resisted it for years.
i was dragged kicking and screaming into the evolution theory camp.. i would rather have had my arm lopped off at the elbow;but, facts are facts.
i had to be intellectually honest.
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XQsThaiPoes
AF are your serious?
How in heck does finding humanoid fossils with dinosaurs falsify evolution ever hear of monsterism or punctuated equilibrium? To be so high and mighty and a man of science you often refuse the obvious. You can't as of now falsify evolution. We don't have the technology yet and we don?t know enough. Also identifying species by the shapes of fossils in the ground alone is a fallacy but in many cases it is the best we can do.
You seem not to want to grasp the true nature of currently unfalsifiable theories. I mean imagine if you discovered a species that could alter the alleles it passes on to the next generation depending on its perceived future needs (this is a great evolutionary advantage). Then Lamarckian evolution would be true too. You really think to far inside the box.
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EVIL LOUTION? Why do you still resist? Science doesn't work?
by Terry ini resisted it for years.
i was dragged kicking and screaming into the evolution theory camp.. i would rather have had my arm lopped off at the elbow;but, facts are facts.
i had to be intellectually honest.
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XQsThaiPoes
There is more than one type of evolution and they all are not in the feild of biology. Some astronomers do think gavity did create everything after the big bang. I don't see how that is invalid.
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Honest mistakes? The Governing Body's excuses for their actions
by Terry inthe governing body tells us they are not false prophets because they admit their mistakes.. they only err because they are zealous to see the new order commence.. they are on the watch and warning everybody just like they are supposed to.. their doctrines change (new light) because they see and admit their errors.. what more can we expect of them?.
is the governing body honestly doing the best they can?
they are only human; how can we expect them to be perfect?.
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XQsThaiPoes
Actually thats the catch 22 why does anyone believe them since they shout all their faults? There is no reason to actuall trust the FDS. So why do JWs care? Because the FDS tells them to trust them. Then the FDS tells the JWs they are untrust worthy. So the FDS may or may not be telling the truth at any given time. What a heck of a concept to base a religion on of all things.
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Now you dont believe the Bible , which characters sound dodgy?
by sleepy inwhen you stop believing the bible to be the word of god the motives behind the actions of gods prophets and followers come across rather differently.
in fact much like fundlmentlists today.you have joshua comiting genocide , and paul moving in and tacking control of the christians and changing the religion to his own beliefs.
which other characters actions can be interpreted differenly when you see them just as ordinary humans with more selfish motives?
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XQsThaiPoes
No none outside of Jesus are. They are either evil or victims.
I believe in a malevolent god. I mean look at hosea. God orders him to marry a woman of fornication that would bear bastard children for him to take care of for the sole purpose of making an anology. Hosea did nothing wrong and was Gods prophet. Yet God tells him to marry a unfaithful wife that he will one day have to buy from her pimp. That is just sick.