Posts by Bagira

49

Called the information desk again about the UN

by skyman in

i have called many times in the past.

this time i was calling for a sister that wanted to know the truth from the society.

the brother from the information desk said they did join but realy they were tricked.

Bagira

If you check this link out, it is obvious, why they wanted to be associated with the UN:

http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/brochure.htm

"The programme of the NGO Section include weekly NGO Briefings, the annual
DPI/NGO Conference, Communications Workshops, an Annual Orientation
Programme, as well as the NGO association and evaluation processes,
maintenance of the NGO Resource Centre, monthly mailings, a DPI/NGO
Directory and web site."

"It also offers opportunities for views and ideas from these sectors to be
considered by the United Nations."'
According to my interpretation the society simply wanted to influence the policy-makers of the UN.

Have a nice day

Bagira

22

WT response to your letters?

by Smiles in

have you ever sent letters to the wt society and if so what was their response to you?.

did they send you an informative reply?.

did they send you a smug reply?.

Bagira

About two years ago, still as elder, I wanted to resign because of the UN scandal. When the CO came into our congregation, he advised me to send a letter to the Hungarian Bethel with my questions, before I would resign. I sent the letter, then I was threatened by the Hungarian spokesman of the WT to keep silent, otherwise I would be disfellowshipped (the wording was different, but this was the essence)

Then they sent a letter to the elders of the cong (not to me!!!!) and I (!!!!) had to give an account on what I think etc. The response they sent was a bogus response, I had the possibility to read it only, I could not copy it. The letter said that as there were several tens of thousands of brothers and sisters all around the world believing in the FDS, so should I ..........Then after 6 months I was disfellowshipped for apostasy.....

Hi

Bagira

20

"And war broke out in heaven" - Why and how?

by truthseeker in

i don't know if anyone has brought up the subject of "the war in heaven" before, but i have a few questions.

maybe leolaia could help out with this one.

revelation 12 talks about a war in heaven - now this is not just any war.

Bagira

	John 16: 7-11 7. But what I am saying is true: my going is for your good: for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. Here Jesus said that he needed to go away in order to send the Holy Spirit to his disciples (a. d. 33 - Pentecost)
8.	And he, when he comes, will make the world conscious of sin, and of righteousness, and of being judged:
9.	Of sin, because they have not faith in me;
10.	Of righteousness, because I go to the Father and you will see me no more;
11.	Of being judged, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

Here Jesus said that at the time of the arrival of the Holy Spirit the ruler of this world would be judged. Thims means imho that at Pentecost Satan and his angels were no longer in heaven, thus the battle must have taken place sometime between the ascension of Jesus to heaven and Pentecost.

13

Tertiary education

by Spanners in

hi, my sister is a jw and last year was her final year of secondary school (17/18 years old over here), she received the prize for best student overall in the whole school.

she's always wanted to go to university and become a lawyer and now since becoming a jw has changed her mind and is working in a restaurant clearing tables.

which is a bit of a joke, because she'll end up stuck in that job for the next 30 years.. she doesnt want to go to university because "armageddon is coming soon so theres no point".

Bagira

They push this standpoint all the time without assuming responsibility for the lives of those affected....

Please note that Paul was a master of Romal law (Acts 22:25: "But when they had stretched him out for the whips, Paul said to the centurion on duty, "Is it lawful for you to scourge a man who is a Roman citizen and has not been tried?") he spoke several languages and could be considered as a person with university education, in terms of today.

Anyhow, when I worked at the Budapest Bethel in Hungary in 1991, the Bethel overseer, Karlheinz Hartkopf said that "we here at Bethel need brains". Most of the people coming from the US and W-Europe were university graudates btw.....

In Hungary, Europe, you can see a lot of those brothers and sister belonging to the lost generations of JWS, who were told not to go to the university and who are struggling now for their everyday bread, as the education they have is next to nothing........

Hope you can convince your sister still in good time

Greetings

Bagira

42

JW's are LOSING IT

by GetBusyLiving in

jw
friends

at one of the last bookstudies i ever attended i heard a comment that really struck home to me how desperate these people really are getting, to the edge of insanity.

an older woman commented, "you can tell the end is coming.. its in the air.. you can feel it.. there is something in the air.. times are just.. different" and the whole time she was manically glancing around the room.

the conductor agreed with her.

Bagira

1975 my father made a bet with one of our neighbors about the end of the world coming that year. The PO of my previous cong (before I was disfellowshipped) gave all his money to his mother that year. saying, he would not need it any longer...........

The GB makes a good use and lots of bucks out of the fear of their folks....... :-((((

28

King Herod, and his "slaughter of the innocents"

by stevenyc in

matt 2:16 "then herod, seeing he had been outwitted by the astrologers, fell into a great rage, and he sent out and had all the boys in beth lehem and in all its districts done away with, from two years of age and under, according to the time that he had carefully ascertained from the astrologers".

does anyone know if there is any historical evidence to support king herod's mass killing of children under the age of two, when christ was born.. i can't find any.

that whole chapter seams to me not to be so much a historical report, but more a justification.. .

Bagira

Hi Steve,

the following link gives some aspects to think about:

http://www.christiancourier.com/questions/herodSlaughterQuestion.htm

22

Are Bethelites more likely to leave the JWs than others?

by Gill in

have you any experience of families whose sons have gone off to bethel and then decided to not have any more contact with their family and jws at all very soon after returning?.

i ask this question because i know of two families where this has been the case.. the first family had three sons who one after the other went to the london bether to 'serve' within a couple of years of eachother.. after three years there all three returned home completely different people.

they then left home, left dub land, two married non jws and another lives with his girlfriend.

Bagira

In Hungary, I know two brothers (+ myself) who have worked at Bethel and are no longer witnesses.....

Hi

Bagira

36

Is Early Christianity the Basis For JW Practices?

by OldSoul in

early christianity: what was it like?

did the early christians ask the public for donations to fund their ministry or other works?.

did the early christians encourage believers to distribute communications from the apostles and older men in jerusalem to the public as a primary part of their ministry?.

Bagira

Early Christians had a different evangelium after the death of Jesus. See 1 Cr 15:14:

"And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain. "

Hi

Bagira

36

Is Early Christianity the Basis For JW Practices?

by OldSoul in

early christianity: what was it like?

did the early christians ask the public for donations to fund their ministry or other works?.

did the early christians encourage believers to distribute communications from the apostles and older men in jerusalem to the public as a primary part of their ministry?.

Bagira

Dear Old Soul,

you got the point..........just one more thing to add......according to the Galatians, chapter 1 and 2, Paul has preached on his own without communicating with the cong in Jerusalem for 17 years.....that much about centralized governing bodies

Hi

Bagira

19

Welcome, Bagira!!!

by OldSoul in

jw
friends

we have a new poster named bagira!.

welcome, bagira!!!.

whether you step on toes or not, some here will like you, and others, meh, not so much.

Bagira

Hi Everybody,

(story continued :-)

After being informed by the UN about the association with the WTBS my friend and myself have examined all the information being available on the internet. I was shaken to the roots and couldn't get my bearings for three months. The CO was due to visit our congregation and I planned to resign from my position as elder at that time. I have informed the other elders of the congregation about the UN association and told them I was no longer in position to give talks about Christian neutrality, while I know that this is not true of the WTBS.

In the meantime my friend sent a letter to the national Bethel about the UN and he received the usual formal letter of the sociaty stating that the association would have been necessary in order to visit the UN library

Then the CO came and had a discussion with me. He was benevolent to me and suggested to contact the Hungarian Bethel in Budapest and convey my questions regarding the UN association to them and to wait with resigning as long as they answer me in order to see the end of the story. I consented and made a 6 pages long table including all information my friend and myself have collected from the internet and in the local (Budapest) UN public library in Hungary. The first column included the pieces of information given by the WTBS in the letter they sent to my friend, the second the contrary information we have collected and the third included the sources and references, showing that the statements made by the WTBS were outright lies.

In the meantime I retreated from leading the WT study, maintained my work as elder and HLC secretary and was waiting for the answer. My friend was disfellowshipped, along with his wife, in the meantime for apostasy.

Before answering me, the Hungarian spokesman of the Bethel called me and told me he would urgently want to talk to me because of the UN association and asked me when I was going to travel to Budapest. I said I would not go there for a while. Then he said that in this case he would visit me.

The spokesman of the Bethel was my close associate in the HLC and is a good fellow. Anyway, when he visited me, he told me among others that none of both of us would like to have a sad ending in the story and he advised me to stop scrutinizing this issue, as I have my wife and son and the preaching work to take care of ..........

Two days after the elders of the congregation wanted to talk to me. The Bethel in Budapest sent a letter to them and not to me and I was not allowed to take the letter home with me, I was just allowed to read it in a minute. THe main argument was that there are several tens of thousand brothers and sisters believing the FDS all over the world and so should I too.....

As I learnt later on, there was also a second letter accompanying the first one, advising the elders to proceed with me according to a protocol used in case there is some serious sinner in the family of an elder ............

I will continue

Have a nice day and hugs

Bagira