Posts by Athanasius

21

The life of a Circuit or District Overseer

by LDH in

jw
friends

although they frequently point to the apostle paual as the 'original circuit overseer," the wbts has set up a system which is nothing like what paul did.. paul was not a burden to any congregation.

yet, today the cos and dos (at least here in the states) have the following life:.

car is paid for.

Athanasius

Hi LDH,

Enjoyed your interesting post Re: CO & DOs. In this age of instant communication there isn't any real need for these traveling overseers. But the Watch Tower has always been behind the times. Look how ineffective the door to door work is in gathering converts. However, the Watch Tower being the slave empire that it is will not dispense with the overseers. Just as in the antebellum south the plantation owners employed overseers to watch their slaves and to report and punish any rebellious activity, so the Watch Tower uses the CO & DO in a similar manner.

Some might remember when the Elder arrangement was reinstituted in 1971 and 1972 when the CO became equal in the congregation with the local elders. At first he was to be viewed as just one of the elders. His greatest power, patronage (appointment of elders & m. servants) was taken away from him and given to the local elders. That was changed after a brief period and the CO was elevated back to his original position of prince and patronage put back in his hands. The Watch Tower never really explained the reason for changing back to the old system. Perhaps others can shed some light on this.

Sincerely,

Athanasius

11

What JW fact would you like to know?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

just been thinking about some info i would love to know but will probably never find out.. what i wish for is a book about the lives of the societies presidents.. i would like to have first hand acounts of what they were really like and what others thought of them.. did they really belive what they taught , were they con men or just slightly mad?.

i would mostly like to know about russell and rutherford.. trouble is there arent many people alive who would remmember them well.. prehaps someone can help me out.

Athanasius

Hi Sleepy,

I researched Rutherford's early life, even visited the site of the Baptist Church that he attended as a child. The Church was destroyed by a cyclone in the 1970s but the cemetary where his parents are buried is still there. Nothing remains of the original buildings of his father's farm. However, Rutherford's house in Boonville is still standing. It was for sale when I visited it last year.

Rutherford's father was a prosperous farmer and Joseph led a normal life. There wasn't anything in his background to indicate why he would later adopt the unorthodox beliefs that he forced on the Bible Students. Rutherford is the true founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Though some claim that Rutherford's doctrines came from channeling the spirits, I feel quite stongly that they were politically motivated. Rutherford merely used his new doctrines to destroy the democratic traditions of the Bible Students so that he could consolidate his power over the organization. During his regime the Watch Tower became a totalitarian dictatorship. It still is.

I haven't researched that much into Russell's early life, but according to Fritz Springmeir, in Ireland Russell's family attached themselves to an Arian branch of the Presbytarian Church. This would explain his theological leanings toward Arianism. The Masonic connection cannot be discounted either. This would account for some of the occultic symbols used in the early Watch Towers.

Hopefully this has helped you.

Sincerely,

Athanasius

11

What JW fact would you like to know?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

just been thinking about some info i would love to know but will probably never find out.. what i wish for is a book about the lives of the societies presidents.. i would like to have first hand acounts of what they were really like and what others thought of them.. did they really belive what they taught , were they con men or just slightly mad?.

i would mostly like to know about russell and rutherford.. trouble is there arent many people alive who would remmember them well.. prehaps someone can help me out.

Athanasius

Hi Sleepy,

THE WATCHTOWER AND THE MASONS by Fritz Springmeir has some personal information about Charles Taze Russell. Springmeir is somewhat controversial, however, this is one of his better books. Free Minds once carried it. I don't know if they still do.

I have done some research myself and learned that Russell had invested in a gold mine in Nevada and one of the reasons for his last tour out west in October 1916 was to inspect his investment. He met briefly with his partners in Kelso, California before heading on to Los Angeles for his final sermon. He died a few days later on Halloween 1916. There have been rumors that Russell was murdered. According to this scenario someone poisoned his food with arsenic. The symptoms that he manifested during those last days were similar to arsenic poisoning.

The Chicago Bible Students once published a book titled: THE LAODICEAN MESSINGER, BEING THE MEMOIRS OF PASTOR RUSSELL. Though it is long out of print, your local library may be able to obtain a copy through their interlibrary lending program. Its pro-Russell, but it does contain some personal details of his life. There is a former JW who is writing a book on Maria Russell. However, I don't know when it is scheduled to be published.

I have more information on Rutherford, who started out in politics before getting involved with religion. In 1896 he came within 100 votes of becoming the Democratic candidate for state legistlature representing Cooper County, Missouri. However, he was a Liberal Democrat and he lost the nomination to a more conservative Democrat who went on to win the election in November. Nevertheless, Rutherford worked hard to elect other Democrats and was impressive on the stump. He could talk for hours on complicated issues and still hold the crowds attention. He was very active in local Democratic politics for many years. His last election was 1904. Apparently he was too liberal for his time and so he gave up politics for religion, joining the Watch Tower movement some time in 1906.

The official Watch Tower history books give an earlier date for his conversion but they are in error. While it is true that he bought some of Russell's books in 1894 the books didn't really make an impression on him. Russell warned his flock to stay out of politics, but politics were Rutherford's life blood from 1890-1905. When Russell's representative visited Rutherford's hometown in May 1904 to give a talk on THE DIVINE PLAN OF THE AGES, Rutherford was out of town tending to business in Independence, Kansas.

I think that Rutherford realized that he was finished in Democratic Party but saw that he could succeed in religion using the backroom tactics he learned in local party politics. This enabled him to outmaneuver Ritchie, Johnson, and others in the fight to succeed Russell.

Rutherford and his wife serparated sometime before 1920, though they were not divorced. It is rumored that he took several mistresses. I am still researching this. Perhaps there are others who can reveal more about the first two Watch Tower presidents.

Sincerely,

Athanasius

4

Pastor Russell's last days on earth

by sf in

jw
friends

...along with letters from the "congregation" concerning his passing:.

< http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/st%20paul%20memorials.htm.

there is loads of tidbet info in these letters and accounts.

Athanasius

Dear SF,

Enjoyed the information on Charles T. Russell's passing. However, there are rumors that Russell did not die of natural causes but was murdered. One of the reasons for his last trip to California was to look over a gold mine in Nevada. Russell may have learned that he was being conned and the mine speculators could have had him poisoned to prevent exposure. If you have any further information on this, please let us know about it.

Sincerely,

Athanasius

16

All are not equal before judicial committees

by roybatty in

jw
friends

this is nothing new but there seems to be a lot of advice on what to do when the elders call you to meet with them before a judicial committee.

at the risk of sounding arrogant, ill give you the perspective that i had as an elder sitting on a judicial committee.

it doesnt matter if youre before the committee for apostasy, fornication, smoking, drinking or anything else.

Athanasius

Hi Roybatty,

The scenarios that you mention regarding JC meetings are very true. When I served as an elder I noted that if the person before us was well connected politically in the congregation, he or she was most likely able to get off with a mild reproof, unless the alleged sin was so gross and well known that public reproof was necessary.

Like Littletoe I also preferred to err on the side of mercy. Frequently the fascist elders in my congregaton were quick to criticize the decisions made by the JCs upon which I served. Fortunately at the time, the 1970s and early 80s, the fascists were in the minority in our congregation. That changed after I resigned as an elder in 1984 and another liberal elder was removed by the body. The fascists were then in the majority. Interestingly the new majority formed new committees. The result was that some of the individuals that we liberals had mildly reproved were later DFd or "canned" as we used to call it.

Sincerely,

Athanasius

16

All are not equal before judicial committees

by roybatty in

jw
friends

this is nothing new but there seems to be a lot of advice on what to do when the elders call you to meet with them before a judicial committee.

at the risk of sounding arrogant, ill give you the perspective that i had as an elder sitting on a judicial committee.

it doesnt matter if youre before the committee for apostasy, fornication, smoking, drinking or anything else.

Athanasius

Hi Roybatty,

The scenarios that you mention regarding JC meetings are very true. When I served as an elder I noted that if the person before us was well connected politically in the congregation, he or she was most likely able to get off with a mild reproof, unless the alleged sin was so gross and well known that public reproof was necessary.

Like Littletoe I also preferred to err on the side of mercy. Frequently the fascist elders in my congregaton were quick to criticize the decisions made by the JCs upon which I served. Fortunately at the time, the 1970s and early 80s, the fascists were in the minority in our congregation. That changed after I resigned as an elder in 1984 and another liberal elder was removed by the body. The fascists were then in the majority. Interestingly the new majority formed new committees. The result was that some of the individuals that we liberals had mildly reproved were later DFd or "canned" as we used to call it.

Sincerely,

Athanasius

16

All are not equal before judicial committees

by roybatty in

jw
friends

this is nothing new but there seems to be a lot of advice on what to do when the elders call you to meet with them before a judicial committee.

at the risk of sounding arrogant, ill give you the perspective that i had as an elder sitting on a judicial committee.

it doesnt matter if youre before the committee for apostasy, fornication, smoking, drinking or anything else.

Athanasius

Hi Roybatty,

The scenarios that you mention regarding JC meetings are very true. When I served as an elder I noted that if the person before us was well connected politically in the congregation, he or she was most likely able to get off with a mild reproof, unless the alleged sin was so gross and well known that public reproof was necessary.

Like Littletoe I also preferred to err on the side of mercy. Frequently the fascist elders in my congregaton were quick to criticize the decisions made by the JCs upon which I served. Fortunately at the time, the 1970s and early 80s, the fascists were in the minority in our congregation. That changed after I resigned as an elder in 1984 and another liberal elder was removed by the body. The fascists were then in the majority. Interestingly the new majority formed new committees. The result was that some of the individuals that we liberals had mildly reproved were later DFd or "canned" as we used to call it.

Sincerely,

Athanasius

16

Where did Jehovahs Witnesses originate?

by Miss Jones in

jw
friends

i am a college student taking a course in religious studies.

we started studing christianity today.

my professor branched out several religions on the board.

Athanasius

Dear Ms Jones,

An excellent book that will help you in researching the roots of the Jehovah's Witness religion is WILLIAM MILLER AND THE ADVENT CRISIS by Everett N. Dick, published by Andrews University Press, ISBN # 1-883925-02-9.

Relying on contemporary and modern sources, Everett Dick was the first scholar to investigate in depth the Millerite Movement of the 1840s. Interestingly Miller did not intend to start a new religion, in fact he remained a Baptist until he died in 1849. However, the movement that grew up around his teachings later gave birth to the Seventh-day Adventists and the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Sincerely,

Athanasius

26

how long were you out before...

by lydia in

jw
friends

hello all.. i'm just trying to get a handle on everyone in here..so how long have all of you been out of the borg?

also how long was it till you got on here??.

lydia

Athanasius

Hi Lydia,

I have been out since 1984. In the spring of that year I read Ray Franz's book CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE. No JW can read that book and remain in the Organization in good conscience. Being an elder I could't just suddenly walk away without creating suspicion. So I resigned as an elder and then became hit and miss with meetings. I attended my last meeting as a JW in October 1984. However,in the 1990s just for fun I have attended some JW meetings at KHs where they don't know me. The JWs thought I was an interested person and would try to convert me. They always failed though.

It was through FREEMINDS that I learned of this site. I live in California.

Sincerely,

Athanasius

59

Beth Sarim Revisited 4 Newbies

by Farkel in

jw
friends

at 4440 braeburn road, san diego, ca., in the rich and prestigious neighborhood of the kensington heights neighborhood sits one of the biggest embarrassments in the long and continuing list of embarrassments the watchtower society has created for itself.. most dubs know nothing about it, and if it wasnt for a few brief comments about it in the proclaimers book in 1993, even fewer dubs would know anything at all about it.. it is the home once known as beth-sarim (pronounced beth-sareeeem), the house of the princes.. it is a house with a history the society has shown by its historical lack of candor, hopes everyone would forget.

in fact, the society has done just about everything it could do to ensure that its history will be forgotten.

in the first book devoted to discussing the history of jehovahs witnesses, this house and its history is not even mentioned.

Athanasius

Hi Farkel,

Great post on Beth Sarim and JFR. Most JWs today are ignorant about this dark period of their history.

However, there is some question regarding the final resting place of Judge Rutherford's bones. Many rumors have been circulating over the years that JFR was secretly buried on the Beth Sarim property. However, in 1997 I asked Raymond Franz about these rumors. He said that the Judge is buried out in Staten Island, N.Y. as reported in the Watch Tower's official history books. Later I talked with a real estate consultant who was involved in the recent sale of the property. This gentleman had spoken with one of the daughters of the previous owner. During the 40s and 50s when she was a child she lived in Beth Sarim and had heard the rumors that Rutherford was buried on the property. So she and her sister searched and dug into any suspicious area, to no avail. They didn't find any bones.

However, the only way to put these rumors to permenant rest would be to open JFR's grave in New York. If they find an empty coffin, then rumors are true.

Sincerely,

Athanasius