Athanasius

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Posts by Athanasius

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  24

  Let's Take A Look At Judge Rutherford In The Pages of Zion's Watch Tower

  by Kenneson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought i'd present my finds on rutherford's early years in the w.t.

  society before he usurped the presidency.

  someone writes a letter and mentions judge rutherford.

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  Athanasius

  Hi Ken,

  My copy of TROY DEBATES RUTHERFORD cost $3.00. However, I purchased it over ten years ago. I don't know what the book sells for today. But you could write to the address that I gave you and ask for their price list. By the way the TROY-RUTHERFORD book also contains a reprint of Charles T. Russell's booklet THE OBJECT AND MANNER OF OUR LORD'S RETURN and a facsimile of a lecture on the Zodiac that was given at a Watch Tower convention in 1914 titled THE DIVINE PLAN OF THE AGES WITH STELLAR CORRESPONDENCIES. Very interesting reading.

  Sincerely,

  Athanasius
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  24

  Let's Take A Look At Judge Rutherford In The Pages of Zion's Watch Tower

  by Kenneson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought i'd present my finds on rutherford's early years in the w.t.

  society before he usurped the presidency.

  someone writes a letter and mentions judge rutherford.

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  Athanasius

  Hi Kenneson,

  Regarding the Rutherford-Troy Debate, you might find it helpful to read the entire script. Bill Cetnar made it available in TROY DEBATES RUTHERFORD (privately published). I think that you can still order a copy from:

  Cetnar

  Route 3 Weir Lake Road

  Kunkletown, PA 18058

  The late Bill Cetnar assembled the information from the Los Angeles Express which covered the debate in great detail. Bill Cetnar makes this interesting observation in the book's forward: "At a Bethel meeting I sat next to John Adam Baeurlein a former International Director and Officer of the Watchtower Society. He mentioned he had attended the Rutherford-Troy debates. I asked him why the Society refused to debate today. He answered: 'Because Rutherford lost his shirt in debate with Troy.' He then added: 'The Watchtower is not God's Organization.' These remarks from this old man who spent 50 years at Watchtower Headquarters were a shock to me."
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  24

  Let's Take A Look At Judge Rutherford In The Pages of Zion's Watch Tower

  by Kenneson in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i thought i'd present my finds on rutherford's early years in the w.t.

  society before he usurped the presidency.

  someone writes a letter and mentions judge rutherford.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Athanasius

  Hi Kenneson,

  You have certainly done your homework on Joe Rutherford and Zion's Watch Tower. However, there are several hints even in ZWT that there was friction between Joe Rutherford and Charles Taze Russell. One that comes to mind is contained in the May 1, 1915 Watch Tower reprints pages 5684-5685 regarding the Rutherford-Troy Debate. Joe writes Russell a glowing letter about the debate and the great victory that he claimed to have won over the Baptist clergyman, John H. Troy. Russell's reply is very interesting. Instead of heaping praise on Rutherford's efforts, Russell throws cold water on it all by saying "We still feel a prejudice against public debates of religious questions." CTR further states: "So far as the Editor is concerned, he has no desire for further debates. He does not favor debating, believing that it rarely accomplishes good and often arouses anger, malice, bitterness, etc., in both speakers and hearers." One can imagine how Joe must have felt after Russell's put down in the pages of the Watch Tower.

  It is also interesting that Russell refers to Rutherford's pamphlet, A Great Battle In the Ecclesiatical Heavens, as "Judge Rutherford's Spicy Defense." Instead of calling Rutherford's work dignified, Russell used a term that in those days could mean risque, like a spicy novel. Russell then said: "I have not yet read it, though, of course, I knew of its preparation and in a general way of its contents. I prefer not to have anything to do with its publication."

  There is a lot of information outside the Watch Tower regarding the problems that Russell had with Joe.

  According to testimony at the Olin Moyle trial, in 1915 Russell gave Rutherford $1,000 so he could leave New York and set up a law practice in California. David Horowitz also mentions this in his biography of Russell, PASTOR CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL, AN EARLY AMERICAN CHRISTIAN ZIONIST, page 61. According to Horowitz, who is neither a Jehovah's Witness or a Bible Student, Russell considered Rutherford a dangerous man and wanted him as far away as possible.

  Sincerely,

  Athanasius
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  64

  Rutherford's wife, why the info blackout?

  by VM44 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  rutherford ruled the watchtower organization from 1916 to 1942, traveled extensively, had several residences, most notably, beth sarim.

  but absent always was his wife, mary, not to mention his son, malcolm as well.. ok, rutherford was so well known, why did no one inquire about his son and wife?.

  when rutherford resided at beth sarim in san diego, why was his wife not there with him?

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  Athanasius

  According to the January 1, 1892 Boonville (Missouri) Weekly Advertiser Joseph F. Rutherford married Mary Fetzer on December 30, 1892. The ceremony was performed at the home of the bride's mother by Reverend Gauss of the Presbyterian Church. The November 11, 1892 Advertiser reports that Joe's son Malcolm was born on November 10, 1892. According to Joe, Malcolm's first words were "Hurrah for Cleveland." Grover Cleveland had just been elected President of the United States on November 8, 1892 and Joe had taken an active part in the campaign.

  Mary Fetzer Rutherford had an older brother named Fred who was present at their mother's funeral in February 1895.

  To my knowledge Malcolm Rutherford didn't have any children.
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  25

  How many of us posters ULC "ministers"?

  by Glenmore in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i found out recently that both valis and avishai are fellow universal life church people.

  maybe we should form a tax-exempt corporation and legally-swindle money from the government like our alma mater (da borg) does?

  http://www.ulc.org/.

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  Athanasius

  Hi Glenmore,

  I was ordained a minister in the ULC in 1988. I got my doctorate of Divinity in 1994 and became a Monsignor the same year. Though I prefer to be called just plain Athanasius, officially I am Monsignor Athanasius.
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  19

  Robdar's Three Year Anniversary

  by FlyingHighNow in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  woo hoo, robyn!

  three years of ecstasy in apostasy.

  okay well, maybe it wasn't all ecstacy.

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  Athanasius

  Congratulations Robdar. Its been nice having you here. You are a true friend.
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  83

  You are EX-JWs because you want to live an immoral life!

  by Sirona in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many jehovah's witnesses believe what they've been told about ex-witnesses.

  they say that exjws simply want to live an immoral life.

  they say that exjws cannot live up to "jehovah's standards".

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  Athanasius

  No, when I left I was a JW in good standing. My reasons for leaving were mostly doctrinal, plus I could no longer tolerate the oppression and hypocrisy of the Watch Tower organization.
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  44

  Did the WTS make an atheist out of you?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  shouldn't a religion bring people closer to god?

  it would seem that many became atheist after being deceived by the wts.

  unlike other religions, the wts was very precise in what was to happen during the 20th century.

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  Athanasius

  No it didn't make me an atheist. Nor did my experience with the WT cause me to reject Christianity.
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  10

  King Arthur.

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  yes, most enjoyable.. slow to start but gradually speeding up to a first rate climax.

  the perceived story of arthur's exploits that lead to him becoming king of britain.. anyone else seen it?.

  englishman.

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  Athanasius

  My fiancee and I saw the film last week and we both enjoyed it. The movie is very entertaining and despite its faults is perhaps the most historically accurate portrayal of Arthur in film to date. For more information about King Arthur I would suggest reading Geoffrey Ashe's THE DISCOVERY OF KING ARTHUR, and P. F. Turner's THE REAL KING ARTHUR.
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  15

  Curious.......

  by cameo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  don't know if this has been asked before (and sorry if it has).

  this is for all the "born-into" former witnesses:.

  if you hadn't been born into the religion, do you think you would have become a witness sometime in your life?

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  Athanasius

  It is doubtful that I would have chosen the JW religion had I not been raised in the sect.