Posts by Athanasius

87

What would it take for you to conclude that the WBTS is not God's channel?

by Mickey mouse in

jw
friends

i wondered if you could answer this question for me?

you seem to be fine with the fact that they are false prophets, that they have changed the bible and that they have entered into an agreement to "uphold the aims of the un".. what is the deal breaker for you?.

i suspect that there isn't one, and that is not a reasonable position.. please tell me there is something they could do that would make you question their legitamacy?.

Athanasius

Hi Reniaa,

As an Anglican you would call me a Trinitarian Christian, nevertheless, I respect your right to reject the Trinity and hold another set of beliefs. However, you must admit that the Watchtower is in a bit of a flux these days in that they have recently changed some major doctrines and made several changes to their organizational structure. With the eventual passing of Ted Jaracz, the Governing Body may make the Witness religion more mainstream. Will they reject Arianism, adopt the Trinity doctrine, and become like the World Wide Church of God? Only time will tell.

But it is encouraging that your set of beliefs are independent of the Watchtower Governing Body. So whatever they do will not affect your spirituality.

You might be interested to know that there is a group of Jehovah's Witnesses here in the United States that have published a report exposing the apostasy of the Watchtower Governing Body. I obtained a copy of this report several years ago. My copy is packed away somewhere in storeage so I can't give you their email address. Perhaps someone here has acess to more current information on the "Report" and this special group of Jehovah's Witnesses. You may have more in common with these Jehovah's Witnesses than with those who blindly follow the changing teachings of the Governing Body.

9

Blood and Acts question

by Wicaugen in

okay, so, i dunno if this has been brought up before, it probably has, but i have an in depth question.. acts 15:20-21 - but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

for from anchient times moses has had in city after city those who preach him, because he is read aloud in the synagogues on every sabbath.. okay.

here's my question.

Athanasius

From what I have read in a number of Bible commentaries, including the Anchor Bible, the dietary restrictions listed in Acts 15:20 has to do with table fellowship among Jewish and Gentile Christians. Gentile Christians, while being free of Old Testament dietary laws, were to abstain from certain dietary practices for the sake of the Jewish Christians.

The Expositor's Bible Commentary, Volume 9, page 448 says: "These prohibitions have often been viewed as a compromise between two warring parties, which nullified the effect of James's earlier words and made the decision of the Jerusalem Council unacceptable to Paul. But in reality they should be viewed not as dealing with the principial issue of the council but as meeting certain practical concerns; not as being primarily theological but more sociological in nature; not as divine ordinances for acceptance before God but as concessions to the scruples of others for the sake of harmony within the church and the continuance of the Jewish Christian mission."

The Watchtower as usual takes Acts 15:20 out of context.

25

What is the Organization Trying to Acheive?

by The-Borg in

jw
friends

i don't understand their mode of operation.. if they want lots of growth, why don't they just lighten up a bit and dispense with the whole charade of harshness and disfellowshipping.

encourage charitable works, social gatherings, education, freedom of speech, having a family etc etc etc.

this would greatly increase their numbers and their bottom line $$.. they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot at the moment.

Athanasius

I think that the Watchtower is at the same place the former USSR was in the final decade of its existance. Currently the ailing Jaracz, the Watchtower Brezhnev is calling the shots. But once he dies someone else will take his place. Will Jaracz's replacement be the Watchtower Gorbachev?

The recent layoffs at Bethel, the switch to distributing cheap paperback books, and the million dollar pay outs to sexual assault victims indicate cash flow problems ahead for the organization. The exodus of members from the industrialized countries and the increase in third world JWs will further stretch the Watchtower's financial resources. If the Watchtower is to survive it will have to bring in affluent converts by broadening its religious structure to appeal to educated people.

Therefore, it is possible that a Watchtower Gorbachev, in an attempt to save the organization, will force through reforms that will make the Jehovah's Witness religion more mainstream.

42

Friday DC Releases

by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

end of morning program, dvd video released: "the wonders of creation reveal god's glory".

end of afternoon program, announced upcoming release of a new songbook: "sing to jehovah".

excuse me while i go barf now.. b the x.

Athanasius

What color is the new song book? When will it replace the baby sh_t brown song book?

2

about mormons

by megaflower in

jw
friends

does anyone know how they treat a house when they get someone home.

do they consider it a retun visit as the jw's do.

my nephew encountered some mormons today(got a call from sis) as she saw him talking to them when she returned home.

Athanasius

Two Mormon Missionaries called on me today. They asked if I had the Book of Mormon, and I told them that I did and though I appreciated their call I told them that I was Episcopalian and my wife is Russian Orthodox and that we are both satisfied with our church families. They weren't pushy like the JWs and didn't try to leave me any literature. Interestingly they asked if I needed any help around the place, as I own almost 4 acres. This is something the JWs would never ask. In fact during the ten years that I've lived here the JWs have never called.

25

What Is Your Favorite TV Program?

by minimus in

jw
friends

is there any show you try to make sure you don't miss?.

when the sopranos was on, i religiously watched that show every sunday night.

is it me or has tv become mostly boring?.

Athanasius

Lost.

35

This Thread Is For Elders & Those Affected By Them

by minimus in

jw
friends

as an ex- elder, i can look back and see all the power and control we had as "shepherds".

when i was an elder i genuinely tried to comply with anything "mother" demanded of us.

i would reason that since "mother knows best", i would comply with the organization, even if it didn't quite seem so fair or right.. as time went by, i could not help but see the unfairness of soooo many rules and regulations.

Athanasius

Like several other posters, I was also 26 when first appointed an elder. Though there were seven elders, including myself, on the BOE, three of us had been to college. I had two years of college at the time, another elder was a college graduate, and the third had served as an officer in the Marine Corps during WWII. Interestingly the three of us formed the liberal wing on the BOE. However, the longer I served the more liberal and independent I became. Since I didn't suck up the the CO, during my 12 years as an elder I only had one Circuit Assembly part even though I was considered a good public speaker.

The former Marine officer and I served on several JCs together during which we handed down compassionate decisions. Of course these decisions were criticized by the more strict elders, and during the CO's visit we were also criticized for being too liberal.

In the spring of 1984 the elder who was a college graduate was deleted as an elder. About that time I read Crisis of Conscience and realized that I could no longer in good conscience serve as an elder. I resigned in September of that year and faded.

Unfortunately most of those whom we dealth with in a compassionate manner during JC meetings are still JWs.

54

What Did You Do With All Your Watchtower Publications?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i needed room when i moved so i sadly threw my entire library away.

i mentioned this to an exjw.

he and his wife took all the hundreds of books, including bound volumes from the 1800s and are now using them for research and proof of watchtower lies.. what did you do with your books?.

Athanasius

When I left the JWs in 1984 I had the Watchtower bound volumes going back to 1962. Since the Watchtower had ripped me off, I felt that I should get some money back at least. So I sold the collection to a JW Ministerial Servant for $120. I had some reprints of Russell's books which he also bought. I didn't tell him that the Russell reprints were published by the "Evil Slave." Why throw away trash that somebody will pay good money for.

10

Baptism valid or not?

by RaraAvis in

i am curious to those of you who were baptised as jws and who have left the organization, but still consider yourselves christians, do you consider your baptism valid?

how many of you out there felt the need to be rebaptised?.

ra.

Athanasius

I was only 9 years old when I was baptised as a JW and didn't really know what I was doing at the time. However, back then the JWs were still baptising in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So when I decided to be received into the Episcopal Church, I asked my priest about Baptism and he said that there was no re-baptism, that you were baptised or you weren't baptised. However, he recommended that I get a second opinion, so I visited another Episcopal priest who said basically the same thing. However, he said that if my JW Baptism bothered me, then I could be "Conditionally Baptised," a sacrament for those who didn't know if they had been baptised or not. Generally this was for adults who weren't sure if they had been baptised as infants.

Therefore, I was Conditionally Baptised, confirmed, and received into the Church. Nevertheless, I don't consider my JW Baptism as valid.

39

Sunday School Teacher Indicted for Murder and Rape - Still Lots of ?????

by flipper in

as some of you may have heard about the tragic rape and death of an 8 year old sandra cantu here in california in the town of tracy - there are still a lot of unanswered questions which beg to be answered and indeed the young girl's brutal murder cries out for an answer.. in case you missed it, to sum up briefly this young girl went missing from her mobile home park the end of march and for about 10 days the police and volunteers put on a massive manhunt .

then finally after 10 days some farmworkers found sandra's body in a suitcase in an irrigation pond only about 2 miles from her home.

search warrants were put out and neighbors were questioned including a baptist minister , his wife, and his 28 year old grandaughter melissa huckaby whose 5 year old daughter played with sandra all the time.

Athanasius

Hi Flip.

BizzyBee's scenario seems the most logical, that Ms. Huckaby accidentally killed the girl in a fit of anger and tried to cover it up by making it look like a kidnapping and sexual assault by an unknown perpretrator. She may be a mother, but mothers killing their own children are not that uncommon these days.

Nevertheless, women are capable of heinous crimes. During World War II some of the women concentration camp guards were more brutal and sadistic than the men.