as an animal lover, i have some questions jws have never dared to breach (according to a search of jw publications).
if humans die because of inheriting adam and eve's sin, why do animals die?
were animals created imperfect?.
ballistic: yes, I would agree. DNA proves we are just a mite off of any other mammal.
I am still figuring this out for myself, but I am having a hard time rationalising a God that would permit animal suffering as a tenant of his original design...unless that is just the way it is...
as an animal lover, i have some questions jws have never dared to breach (according to a search of jw publications).
if humans die because of inheriting adam and eve's sin, why do animals die?
were animals created imperfect?.
Good comments, but my "question behind the question" is: Doesn't this undermine the whole sin and death thing?
(Romans 5:12) . . .That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned?. NWT
Gumby: You are close to target, but according to Romans, death is from sin, not from abstaining from magic fruit.
Blondie: I completely agree with you that Genesis is myth. But look at the other side of the coin. If animals were created to die, be born lame, get disease, even get "murdered" by other animals, what makes humans different?
This is not about comparing intellengence, it is about our status as "creation". How can a human complain about disease and death as a product of Satan/sin and brush off animals exact same condition?
Is it maybe possible that we are only just an advanced creation (evolution, or adaptation for that matter) and that "sin" and "Satan" are just constructs of our higher human logic?
as an animal lover, i have some questions jws have never dared to breach (according to a search of jw publications).
if humans die because of inheriting adam and eve's sin, why do animals die?
were animals created imperfect?.
As an animal lover, I have some questions JWs have never dared to breach (according to a search of JW publications).
If humans die because of inheriting Adam and Eve's sin, why do animals die? Were animals created imperfect?
A secondary question is: If animals are indeed programmed to die, why are they often born with defects or succumb to premature death because of disease? Are not these same conditions listed as symptoms of imperfect humans?
The only answers I have received from JWs is that animals are suffering from man's effects on the planet. This is totally bogus because the Mosaic Law mentions "lame" animal sacrifices (global warming during 1600 BC?). Of course this question applies to any Christian that believes that humas were originally perfect in Eden. Riddle me this...
we all know that witnesses say that they don't gamble, but do they?
i don't mean gambling with lotteries, i mean gambling with life.. many witnesses attend meetings and follow the jw way of life, not because they like it, but because they are afraid of dying at armageddon, so they gamble with their current life, or take a chance, and follow the group, just incase they would win eternal life with the witnesses.
some give away nice life oportunities, marriage, good jobs etc, and gamble all that away, for possibly a better prize..
JH you hit the nail on the head. I know so many witnesses who will admit that even if the truth isn't 'real' (if they lost the bet), they lives are worth it to be able to live in a 'clean organization.' Death to a witness is just that, cashing in their chips.
They think they are playing on house money, how sad.
i know many of you who are regulars here have probably heard this before.
a dear loved one of mine has started attending the hall.
i need scriptural ammunition to combat this mind control....specifically on the "little flock" "great crowd" doctrines, the trinity, and jesus.
I encourage you to introduce your friend to the historical foundation of JWs, especially Russel and Rutherford. Any casual browsing on JW sites will open the doors to this info.
You will find that: Russel the founder of the group now known as JWs derived his end time dates from Egyptian pyramids; his seven volumes Studies in the Scriptures featured an embossed Egyptian motif on the cover.
Rutherford was a classic cult leader who had a luxury compound built for an expected resurrection of Biblical characters in San Diego (though he lived there himself) and enjoyed travelling by private limosine.
Both would be denouced "apostates" by JWs if they were alive today.
JWs have whitewashed this history in their own publications and the current organization has streamlined away from its embarrassing past. Be prepared to back up your facts with proof. But don't fail to ask these questions: Do JWs believe that these men had the truth? (Yes, Russel established 1914 as a pivitol date; Rutherford introduced the "great crowd" group with an earthly hope, isolating 144,000 for heaven only.) And Does the truth change?
No matter what JWs build up as their organization, the entire foundation of their religion is pure crackpot and cult.
"Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep?s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16
By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. -Mat 7:15-18
i had one of my infrequent phone conversations with my jw-elder-father yesterday.
he's been "in da troof" all his adult life, over 5 decades now.
it's all he knows.. so naturally, on those rare occasions when we talk, he launches into a "come back into the truth" soliloquy.
The "5000 per week" was stated in a recent WT and also at the DC conventions. Considering that is over a quarter million per year, the number cold very well be 6.5 mil.
Most growth is coming from third world or immigrant populations in USA/Europe (40% baptized at Netherlands DC 2003 were from foreign language groups). Most getting baptized in English speaking US congregations are JW children (85-90%).
looking through some of the society's earlier wt's, it does seems as though they tend to see apostates as lonely and isolated people.
i can only find one reference to organised apostates in the wt.. so i wonder how they feel about the recent plethora of fests that are taking place?.
it's certainly having a nullifying effect on the enforced isolation that they like to see resulting from disfellowshipping.
WTS has a perfect explaination for apostates and "apostafests" (a term almost unknown inside the JW bubble), but it only works for JWs:
1) Apostates are deceptive and cunning using half and twisted truths to convince you. Thus the self-fulfilling prophecy is that when "apostates" do catch a JW with a fact, the JW thinks "aha, you won't use that trick with me, I've been warned you would do that!"
2) Apostates are unorganized and can't agree on anything except not to go out in service (which every JW knows is a command from Jesus). But can you tell me of any JW exile that wants to re-form a similiar control group based on the one they just got out of? Regardless, another self-fulfilling prophecy that "proves" that "apotates" don't have Jah's spirit because they are "not organized".
But apostafests, and the more powerfully, JWD are a perfect example of "organic" organization. People going out of their way to meet others with a similiar background, dealing with their negative experiences and trading that with positive affirmation that there are others like us. Motivated to meet, on-line and otherwise not by fear or mass-mentality, but by equal support among each other.
JWs only wish that was what got them to go to a convention.
the deaths of the meza family have made front page news in their native nicaragua.
the mother of denis meza and the mother of marbely meza have argued as to who was responsible for the deaths.
denis mother claims that her son couldn't have killed his family "because he was a member of the jehovah's witnesses church.
Now that's a witness to the nations...
methinks i pushed the topic button a wee tad too early!
here is what i meant to say.
if nobody else is responsible, then, are you?
Responsible: Able to make moral or rational decisions on one's own and therefore answerable for one's behavior. (Dictionary.com def #4)
According to this no faithful JW is responsible. They make moral and rational decisions based on what the GB says with fear of banishment and eternal destruction as an alternative.
my husband and i had a committee meeting because of underage drinking.
when he was being counseled, the p.o.
told my husband that he needed to make me wear different clothes to the meeting because it made some of the brothers unable to concentrate.
Do not drive alone in a car with the member of the opposite sex because "a car is like a rolling bedroom".
