Posts by ezekiel3

25

What Is The Real Truth Behind Disfellowshipping?

by Golf in

the many posts about disfellowshipping prompted to throw in my 2 cents.

what is the real truth behind disfellowshipping?

my present thinking is this, over the years, jw's have been indoctrinated to avoid 'independent' thinking.

ezekiel3

As I was reading this thread I was thinking "Jesus never disfellowshipped anyone." And then Oh, yeah, it was Paul who spoke wrote all the DFing scriptures (not that I believe they apply to JW style DF policy).

Then I realized an interesting reality, when JWs are recruiting it is about Jesus: loving, allowing critical questions, ignoring "bad behavior" as long as the student is making "progress."

After a person gets baptized JWs switch to Paul: procedure, authoritarian, men first, pharisees and...disfellowshipping.

The old bait and switch?

14

Tigris and Euphrates rivers

by undercover in

something just hit me as i was reading the genesis account.. genesis chapter 2:.

10 a river watering the garden flowed from eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters.

11 the name of the first is the pishon; it winds through the entire land of havilah, where there is gold.

ezekiel3

*** w71 9/1 p. 540 Where Was the Garden of Eden? ***

However, the Euphrates is well known, and Idiqlat (Hiddekel) is the name used for the equally well-known Tigris in ancient Akkadian (Assyro-Babylonian) inscriptions. These rivers provide a real clue as to the location of Eden?s garden. The Hebrew word translated "heads" at Genesis 2:10 has a bearing on the matter. It would favor placing the garden of Eden in the mountainous region near the source of the Tigris and the Euphrates. As The Anchor Bible states in its comment on Genesis 2:10: "In Heb[rew] the mouth of the river is called ?end? (Josh xv 5, xviii 19); hence the plural of ro?s ?head? must refer here to the upper course. . . . This latter usage is well attested for the Akk[adian] cognate resu."

Both the Euphrates and the Tigris have their present sources in the mountainous region to the north of the Mesopotamian plains. Although opinions vary, numerous scholars would locate the garden of Eden in this area, a few miles south of Lake Van, in eastern Turkey.

***

w50 9/1 p. 298 Writing Before the Flood ***

If Adam did not write the ?history of the heavens and the earth? in Eden, then we do not know exactly where writing started. Since two of the rivers which flowed out of the garden of Eden (the Euphrates and Hiddekel, or Tigris) rise in or near Armenia, the garden of Eden was probably somewhere in what is now known as Armenia. Genesis 3:24 indicates that Adam was driven eastward out of the garden of Eden, but the Scriptures do not reveal whether he remained there to the day of his death, or whether he moved about. His son Cain moved to the land of Nod, also east of Eden. (Gen. 4:16) While preflood human remains in various parts of the earth show that man had moved to various parts of the earth before the flood came, we know nothing of Adam?s movements after his expulsion from Eden.

LMAO

24

New info on Rock Hill, SC JW Child Abuse/Murder/Suicide GRAPHIC WARNING

by SWALKER in

silentlambs is crying out for help in this one.

it seems due to a large public outcry by the community, a candlelite vigil is being set up in remembrance of the victims.

they are plastering this info all over the main page at www.silentlambs.com.

ezekiel3

Annie You Tell 'Em!

WTS impression to the press is nothing but CYA. Wait for the spin when its revealed who first reported the abuse.

20

The END is NIGH??

by Samdownunder in

i watched a fascinating documentary tonight called "the corporation".

it exposed the development of big business in modern day and their greed and corruption of the world.

many of the scholars and experts conceded that by the year 2025, we truly would not have any water left to drink and they discussed the ruination of the rainforests and other important resources as well.

ezekiel3

From a purely phyiscal human standpoint, life is cheap and futile. Because of our insecurities, we are prone to worry about our personal woes and then collectively amplify that to a global scale. But the history of the world as we know it shows a pattern of survival and adaptation.

I recently had a conversation with a JW about the state of world, sparked by that favorite subject about "how bad things are getting." I asked him what was actually so bad. He mentioned immorality and violence in entertainment, comparing our day with the 1950-60s when he was a kid. It struck me that he had proved the degradation of society by comparing events in his lifetime only. Most JWs do this.

But if you zoom out and look at the last 3,000 years of history you will see as socially acceptable: Slavery, live violence as sport, women treated as property, dictatorial control over mind and body, ethnic cleansing.

Of course all of the above is still present today. But the majority of the world do not consider them acceptable.

If you ask me what period of time I would like to live in if I had the choice, it would be now. Come what may, we live in a world of knowledge and free thought. The living standard, on average, is higher then ever before. We are the most enabled people of all time. Just the fact that I can type these words and know they will be published worldwide, in an instant, is incredible.

What I just wrote will go out the window the next time a major catastrophe happens, man-made or natural. The lost will go in droves to JWs and every other cult that offers all the answers. But that doesn't change the fact that, collectively, this is a great time to be alive.

76

Are You SURE JWs Don't Have The Truth???

by minimus in

jw
friends

has anyone here ever questioned whether or not they made the right decision to leave the "truth"?......i'm sure glad i'm out!

ezekiel3

You need to define "The Truth" before you can ask the question.

If you mean "The Truth" brandname that JWs profess, then yes of course - because JWs have defined that phrase themselves. If fact its part of the JW bubble that says "we are in the Truth because the WT says so." To a R&F JW "The Truth" is actually a cultural term for their association with "God's" organization.

But if you mean that JWs have a patent on emprical truth, then absolutely no. "Only God knows" the truth. And if you are agnostic/atheist, even that is in doubt.

JWs admit that their organization is lead by imperfect men, from top to bottom.

JWs admit that their previous outdated doctrines are no longer "truth".

JW accept that what they believe right now may be revised in the future as they are exposed to "new light."

So what is true about that?

31

Pyramids vs the Flood

by ezekiel3 in

historians and scientists agree: the egyptian pyramids were built between 2500 - 2100 bc.

we even have some astronomical evendence that this is true: http://www.robertbauval.com/articles/gpdating.html.

jws teach that:the flood occured at 2370 bcestimates that the tower of babel was constructed around 2189 bcjoseph was sold into slavery 1750 bc (eventually to eygpt, already established as a world power).

ezekiel3

Leolaia: I am very interested in your information about ice cores and tree rings. Please post your sources.

7

Have they started giving receipt out at the KH for literature taken?

by qwerty in

jw
friends

i happened to see a receipt with my wifes name on it ................. 31/08/04.

sis ************.

1 pocket size nwt.

ezekiel3

I am not aware of this. As always, scrupulous records are recorded for in and out going pubs. I think it's about time to pick up some more free literature and find out!

Freeloader of the "you received free, contribute none" class

51

Another example of WTS anthropology - The Flood and racial differences

by Pole in

here is another paradox resulting from the wts stand on the flood:

1. jws seriously believe in 2370 bc as the date of the flood

2. they also believe that by the 1st century ad racial differences had been well developed (i mean differences in the outward appearance of course, and not their early racist views for instance).

ezekiel3

TD, great point! Notice that the WTS may agree with you:

*** it-1 p. 918 Generation ***
The life span of the ten generations from Adam to Noah averaged more than 850 years each. (Ge 5:5-31; 9:29) But after Noah, man?s life span dropped off sharply. Abraham, for example, lived only 175 years. (Ge 25:7) Today, much as it was in the time of Moses, people living under favorable conditions may reach 70 or 80 years of age.

Is inbreeding the cause of our shorter life span? Probably not, but it is interesting that Jewish history starts out with "normal" lifespans after the flood, while before the flood, lifespans are epic at almost 1,000 years long. Hmmm...

24

2370-2180 population increase from10? to 8,000

by badboy in

.

it said in one wt publication(studies inthe scriptures?

)that the human population increased from approxiatemly 10 people to 8,000 people in just 190 years.. is that feastible?

ezekiel3

This is the WTS fuzzy math:

*** it-1 p. 460 Chronology ***
The date of the attempt at building the Tower of Babel is not stated in the record. Genesis 10:25 indicates that the division resulting from the confusion of the languages there occurred sometime during ?the days of Peleg.? It does not necessarily follow that this event occurred at Peleg?s birth. The expression "in his days" would in fact indicate that the division took place, not at or immediately subsequent to Peleg?s birth, but sometime during his life span, which extended from 2269 to 2030 B.C.E. If each post-Flood male parent at the age of 30 were to begin fathering children at the rate of one child every three years, with an average of one male child every six years, and continued this until the age of 90, then in a period of about 180 years from the end of the Flood (that is, by 2189 B.C.E.) the population could have grown to a total of over 4,000 adult males. This conservative number would be ample to fit the circumstances relating to the tower construction and the dispersal of the peoples.

But wait, there's more! Analyze this (about the growth in population of Isrealites in Eygpt):

*** it-1 p. 779 Exodus ***

In view of the large families then and the desire of the Israelites to have children to fulfill God?s promise, it is not unreasonable in our calculation to count each male family head as bringing forth ten children (about half being boys), on the average, during the period of life between 20 and 40 years of age. For conservativeness, we might view each of the original 50 who became family heads as not beginning to father children until 25 years after their entry into Egypt. And, since death or other circumstances could prevent some male children from ever becoming productive children, or could interrupt their child-producing before their reaching the limit of 40 years we have set, we might also reduce by 20 percent the number of males born who became fathers. Put simply, this means that in a 20-year period only 200 sons, instead of 250, born to the 50 original family heads we have designated would produce families of their own.

A
calculation. Even making all these allowances, the population would still increase in an accelerated manner, and that with God?s blessing. The number of children born during each five-year period from and after 1563 B.C.E. (that is, 50 years before the Exodus) up to 1533 (or 20 years before the Exodus) would be as follows:
INCREASE OF MALE POPULATION
B.C.E. Sons Born
from 1563 to 1558 47,350
from 1558 to 1553 62,300
from 1553 to 1548 81,800
from 1548 to 1543 103,750
from 1543 to 1538 133,200
from 1538 to 1533 172,250
Total 600,650*
* Theoretical male population from the age of 20 to 50 years at time of Exodus (1513 B.C.E.)
It may be noted that even a slight adjustment in the method of computation, for example, increasing by one the number of sons born on the average to each male parent, would send this figure up to over a million.

11

HE SAID vs SHE SAID

by Terry in

i'd like to see a chart or list that contrasts what the governing body has given as a rule contrasted with what jesus taught.

: "truly.....let your "yes" mean yes and your "no" mean no, but all the while be in truth in love.".

governing body:.

ezekiel3

Jesus:

(Matthew 26:26-28) As they continued eating, Jesus took a loaf and, after saying a blessing, he broke it and, giving it to the disciples, he said: "TAKE, eat. This means my body." Also, he took a cup and, having given thanks, he gave it to them, saying: "Drink out of it, all of YOU; for this means my ?blood of the covenant,? which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.

Governing Body:

*** w76 2/1 p. 75 "Keep Doing This in Remembrance of Me" ***
Who should partake of the emblems? Only those of the "little flock" are the ones taken into the new covenant and therefore required to partake of the emblems. (Luke 12:32) It was the eleven faithful apostles who, as the small group of prospective anointed ones, comprised the nucleus of those later to be taken into the new covenant on Pentecost day of 33 C.E. (Luke 22:20) The "great crowd," not being ?new creatures? in the new covenant, are not partakers of the bread and wine on this anniversary occasion.