Posts by ezekiel3

40

Free Literature at the Kingdom Hall

by frankiespeakin in

jw
friends

i was thinking for all you guys who go the kingdom hall even though you know it's not the truth,, in order to keep from loosing all your friends and family,, why not take advantage of the wt free literature at your kh?

i mean the wt is forcing you to go to meetings with the threat of being outcasted from your family why not put a little dent in their finances but getting all the free literature you can and not contibuting anything for it.

after all the wt is offering it free of charge.

ezekiel3

Amen to that brother!

18

Studying the new "Keep on the Watch!" brochure - "Which things?" (page 17)

by ozziepost in

now we come to the section "the god who promises these things?

on page 17 of the new brochure ("keep on the watch!").

"this name appears some 7,000 times in the bible in its original languages.".

ezekiel3

Here is the explaination of why WTS "restored" (the term is their own) "Jehovah" to the NWT Greek Scriptures (or New Testament).

*** w60 5/15 pp. 318-319 Questions from Readers ***"RESTORING THE NAME: What is the modern translator to do? Is he justified, yes, authorized, to enter the divine name into a translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures? Every Greek reader must confess that in the LXX the Greek words ky´ri·os and the·os´ have been used to crowd out the distinctive name of the Supreme Deity. Every comprehensive Greek-English dictionary states that these two Greek words have been used as equivalents of the divine name. Hence the modern translator is warranted in using the divine name as an equivalent of those two Greek words, that is, at places where Matthew, etc., quote verses, passages and expressions from the Hebrew Scriptures or from the LXX where the divine name occurs."
Then to that paragraph there is added a footnote of three paragraphs quoting from three different Greek-English lexicons to show that in the Greek Septuagint version of the Hebrew Scriptures the Greek words ky´rios and theos´ were used to substitute for the divine name, Jehovah.
Now on page 20 of the Foreword, paragraph one says: "How is a modern translator to know or determine when to render the Greek words Κ
ύ ριος and Θε ό ς into the divine name in his version? By determining where the inspired Christian writers have quoted from the Hebrew Scriptures. Then he must refer back to the original to locate whether the divine name appears there. This way he can determine the identity to give to ky´ri·os and the·os´ and he can then clothe them with personality."
This Foreword shows that in the course of time nineteen translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures, or of parts of them, have been made from the Greek into the ancient Biblical Hebrew, and that these Hebrew translators, including Professor Franz Delitzsch and also Dr. Isaac Salkinson and Dr. Christian David Ginsburg, used the name Jehovah or the Hebrew tetragrammaton (with vowel symbols) in translating the writings of Christ?s apostles and disciples, generally known as the New Testament. Thus, before the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures came along, these Hebrew translators put the divine name in the Christian writings officially called the New Testament.
Consequently on page 20 of the Foreword the New World Bible Translation Committee says in the second paragraph: "To avoid overstepping the bounds of a translator into the field of exegesis, we have tried to be most cautious about rendering the divine name, always carefully considering the Hebrew Scriptures. We have looked for some agreement with us by the Hebrew versions we consulted to confirm our own rendering. Thus, out of the 237 times that we have rendered the divine name in the body of our version, there are only two instances where we have no support or agreement from any of the Hebrew versions. But in these two instances, namely, Ephesians 6:8 and Colossians 3:13, we feel strongly supported by the context and by related texts in rendering the divine name. The notes in our lower margin show the support we have for our renderings from the Hebrew versions and other authorities."

Now notice the difference between the above article in 1960 and the currently used NWT reference bible:

*** Rbi8 p. 1565 1D The Divine Name in the Christian Greek Scriptures ***To avoid overstepping the bounds of a translator into the field of exegesis, we have been most cautious about rendering the divine name in the Christian Greek Scriptures, always carefully considering the Hebrew Scriptures as a background. We have looked for agreement from the Hebrew versions to confirm our rendering. Thus, out of the 237 times that we have rendered the divine name in the body of our translation, there is only one instance where we have no agreement from the Hebrew versions. But in this one instance, namely, 1Co 7:17, the context and related texts strongly support rendering the divine name.?See 1Co 7:17 ftn, "Jehovah."

From the NWT:

(Ephesians 6:8) 8

for YOU know that each one, whatever good he may do, will receive this back from Jehovah, whether he be slave or freeman.

(Colossians 3:13) 13

Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Even as Jehovah freely forgave YOU, so do YOU also.

(1 Corinthians 7:17) 17

Only, as Jehovah* has given each one a portion, let each one so walk as God has called him. And thus I ordain in all the congregations. FOOTNOTE: "Jehovah," in accord with Ro 12:3 and 2Co 10:13; P 46 אABCD(Gr.), ho Ky´ri·os; Sy h and TR, "God."

This still does not explain why the NT did not have "Jehovah" or the tetragrammaton, why Jesus didn't use the name, and why NT quotes of the OT did not use the name. Hmmm....

27

well folks im out

by koolkeithfl in

jw
friends

i just got dfed last night.

i want to thank you all in advance for helping me through this.

i wanted to fade but my wife insisted that i wasn't gonna dfed.

ezekiel3

Take a breath of fresh air. How were the elders during your meeting?

4

Studying the new "Keep on the Watch!" brochure - Dates but no dates (p14)

by ozziepost in

"if you knew for sure that the impending execution of divine judgment would not come for a few more years, would that change how you are using your life?

if the end of this old system is already later than you expected, have you allowed this to slow you down in jehovah's service?

" - page 14 .

ezekiel3

Suddenly the Service Department has an epiphany:

No promised Armageddon deadline = no growth!

Caught between a rock (a world-wide watchdog group that will pounce on any WTS "date") and a hard-place (no zeal, diminishing productivity in mainstay USA/Europe). What to do...

12

shepherding call

by stillajwexelder in

got a vist from two elders the other night - i lied (sorry guys) i told them what they wanted to hear - that is to say - the organization is wonderful

ezekiel3

Just curious, is your Circuit Overseer due to show up anytime soon? No coincidence my friend.

14

Marking...?

by Gill in

does anyone out there remember 'marking'.

the principle being that if you saw something that you thought 'weak' or 'inappropriate' in your brother you didn't tell others but you 'marked them in your heart' and this person became someone that you personally kept contact with down to the minimum.

talk about judging your brothers!

ezekiel3

Here is the marking challenge #1: Name a scenario where a JW would be marked but not actually warrant discipline (private reproof or DFing).

Hence, Christians can ?mark? someone who persists in disregarding God?s principles. - WT 1981 9/1 pg 20

According the WT the criteria are:

Grossly lazy or critical
A constant meddler
Indulging in entertainment that clearly is improper
Involved in questionable conduct that does not at this point warrant judicial action

Talk about vague and ambiguous!

Marking challenge #2: Inform the congregation of the marked person without mentioning their name!

If the problem persists, they may, without naming the person, give a warning talk to the congregation concerning the disorderly conduct involved - WT 1985 4/15 pp 30-31

Imagine this scenario:

"Brothers and sisters, during our local needs talk tonight we will discuss the problem of laziness that comes from watching all the Harry Potter movies in one go. Clearly you know whom I am talking about. Although we can't disfellowship for this conduct, we plan to embarrass the fellow sitting in the third row there. Oh, and remember, only the elders are allowed to be constant meddlers."

13

NEW: Review of the circuit assembly. Darn!!!

by Doubtfully Yours in

so, not only do i have to greatly sacrifice mentally by going to the darn assemblies 3x yearly, but now they've made it so that you have to pay attention and take notes because there'll be a review with questions and answers at the following meetings.. gosh, the mind control never stops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

comments anyone?!.

dy

ezekiel3

Not only are Circuit Assemblies (2-day) and Special Assembly Days (1-day) programs a drool-inducing monotomy, the new "retention" program now features a pre-review issued in the August Kingdom Ministry (just before the new service-year and assembly programs).

The KM sports a section for each up-coming assembly with main points to be discussed so that you can identify them while taking brief notes.

Apostate tip: the August KMs are "assembly concentrate," save yourself a trip and the wasted time!

39

Spinning the Noah Story WT Style

by Farkel in

for as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away?

note that jesus said nothing about noah doing any preaching or doing any warning to others about the coming flood.

?evidence?

ezekiel3

Farkel,

Please excuse me if you considered my 'scenario' a derailer. I completely agree with your basic statement.

The whole Noah story fails practical tests on every count, especially when you consider that the ark was not made with the hope of saving humans (other than Noah and his brood). Essentially the concept is that the ark carried the minimum of each species to start over again - including humans.

This makes "preaching" a moot activity.

39

Spinning the Noah Story WT Style

by Farkel in

for as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away?

note that jesus said nothing about noah doing any preaching or doing any warning to others about the coming flood.

?evidence?

ezekiel3

This transcript of a audio tape just found on Mount Ararat!

Noah: Shem! Stop painting Japeth with that tar, he'll never look like Ham and you know it!! I'm sorry what were you saying?

Nephilim: Well, I'm really sorry my dad's a demon and all, but I was thinking about what you said about the "flood-thing" and I'd like to get on the ark.

Noah: Uh, right. Well, let me check if we've got room. How tall are you?

Nephilim: About 9 feet, why?

Noah: Hold on. Hey, Ham! Do we have room in the Ark for a really big guy on the large mammal deck?

Ham (yelling from inside the ark): Are you kidding! I just got the elephants in here and I still have to figure out how to keep the hippos watered!

Noah: Shem put that tar down and check for room in the insect compartment.

Shem: Geez, Dad. Do you know how hard it is to keep track of knats?! There's only two of them, do you know how long it took for me to count 8 million different species?! What if he steps on 'em, how am I gonna know?

Noah: Ham is there any chance we could make room in our quarters for this guy?

Ham: Hell no, big man like that with our wives while we're off feeding the animals? I don't think so.

Noah: Listen mister, I don't think we can help you. I know I was preachin at you and all, but it was more of a disclaimer, so that after a few thousand years God can say "I killed everything lI created because it was bad, but I won't take the blame because Noah told everyone they were going to die." I'm sure you realize, to fit you in the ark would...take a miracle!

16

Jesus Baptism

by Nosferatu in

i've been thinking about the whole baptism issue, and it doesn't make any sense.

jesus was baptized.

why did jesus have to get baptized?

ezekiel3

Even the WTS says it was just for show:

*** w85 9/15 p. 8 Jesus? Baptism ***
Why is it right for Jesus to be baptized? Because Jesus? baptism is a symbol, not of repentance for sins, but of his presenting himself to do the will of his Father. Jesus was a carpenter, but now the time has come for him to begin the ministry that God sent him to earth to perform.
*** wt chap. 12 pp. 111-112 The Meaning of Your Baptism ***
Among those who came to John to be baptized was Jesus himself. But why? Knowing that Jesus had no sins to confess, John said: "I am the one needing to be baptized by you, and are you coming to me?" But Jesus? baptism was to symbolize something different. So Jesus replied: "Let it be, this time, for in that way it is suitable for us to carry out all that is righteous." (Matthew 3:13-15) Because Jesus was without sin, his baptism did not symbolize repentance over sin; nor did he need to dedicate himself to God, since he was a member of a nation already dedicated to Jehovah. Rather, his baptism at 30 years of age was unique to him, and it symbolized the presenting of himself to his heavenly Father to do His further will. (WTS Italics)