i wonder how the local elders would like it if a couple of of us ``weak ones" were to stop by their homes unannounced to discuss ``spiritual matters" with them and their families?
it may be an unfair generalization, but it seems to me that every encounter with an elder has to be on their terms.
locally here, few if any jws know the addresses of the elders or has ever been to any of their homes; this is especially true of any dub regarded as ``weak," ``irregular" or ``marginal.
So the elders called on the wives (can't make a shepherding call on an elder, that's what elders meetings are for, you know). But the CO got wind of it and he ripped into those brothers telling them that the congregation should not get the idea that the elders or their wives needed "help" spiritually and that was the end of it.
I heard alot of this too. The pretense that all is well and being so hypersensitive to "how it might look"- on so many levels - is quietly taking its toll.
Axelspeed
i'm thinking through my new position on blood transfusions, and would appreciate your 'pearls of wisdom.
i now feel that, while a blood transfusion is still dangerous, i would accept it as a last resort, if all else failed.
i would not die, or allow any of my family to die, for want of a transfusion of plasma, platelets, or red or white cells.
almost all JWs I have ever encountered in my practice would not hesitate to accept fractions if deemed necessary by a physician. Yet NOT ONE would consider donating their own blood for the extraction of blood fractions. I have asked discreetly. It's just maddening.
I usually pose it this way?
If you came across a bag full of money that fell out of the back of a getaway car running from the scene of a robbery. Would it be okay to scoop it up and use it for yourself, even if you felt it was for a good cause. Most good JWs will say "of course not!". Then ask why. They will normally say because its dirty money gotten illegally. Then I ask "And just how is that any different than using blood fractions that were obtained in a way (through blood donation) the WTS considers immoral, and thus illegal from gods standpoint.
Axelspeed
i remember a few years ago, i changed congregation, so the elders told me that they had to send my folder to the other congregation.
when i was baptized, i don't remeber them telling me they kept information on me, and that they would pass it around to other congregations if ever i moved.. i wonder what kind of information is kept in these folders.
probably everyone in the congregation has his hours listed and the privileges they had written in it, but maybe there is alot more written that we don't even know about.
Agree with Blondie and Eyeslice. Unless you are pretty far up the food chain, this can be overblown. Most elders have enough on there plate and dread having to keep up with more paperwork or even track down inactives on there own initiative. Now when the COs visit is close, there may be some token effort, but that is usually short-lived.
Most Jws are just a cog in a much bigger wheel.
Axelspeed
i'm thinking through my new position on blood transfusions, and would appreciate your 'pearls of wisdom.
i now feel that, while a blood transfusion is still dangerous, i would accept it as a last resort, if all else failed.
i would not die, or allow any of my family to die, for want of a transfusion of plasma, platelets, or red or white cells.
I believe it is very important not to get these issues mixed up. I recently had a hlc member state that the reason for the allowance for fractions was because of the safer procedures being used today. I pointed out that while that is true, the JW reason for not taking blood has always been stated to be built on the sacredness of blood, not the health benefits, and thus the need to pour it out to be returned to Jehovah". It has never been a stance built on the issue of health, though that has often been cited as a side benefit.
True some individual JWs have used the "good health to you" at Acts 10:29 in their reasoning, and the society usually does not discourage it, but officially they have stated that that refers more to a sign off greeting that was used generally at that time.
Always remind them that this is an issue of sacredness, not health, according to the society. To make this a health issue is to give wiggle room.
Axelspeed
i was talking to a ministerial servant last week, and he said that a bethel elder told him the reason why the 2004 annual service report was .
delayed, was because of man power problems.
they simply don't have enough staff at the us branch, because the annual report is already .
I agree that there is probably a manpower issue, but i think this is more than offset by the advances in technology which is shown by bethels own efforts to downsize/reorganize. And while less and less are signing up...there are still some who would give a arm and leg to go. I'm probably looking too much from the conspiracy angle, but I think that something deeper is at work. This kind of thing is not normal at all for bethel, a place that borders on the fanatical for numbers and reporting.
Axelspeed
it is a part 2 to my "what makes a cult a 'cult'?
" thread.
so what would it take to trun the marines for example from a military cult to a mainstream religion.
but in current times there have been notable exceptions to your "rule"
I agree and I tried to make room for this exception when I stated
There are exceptions...like when there is an individual who charismatically steps out and ahead to create a new movement.
In general, movements are not born from within the military. True, the American military takes the oath...but there is always the exceptional individual man/soldier that is lurking, who if charismatic enough could turn the tide (for good or bad depending on your perspective). In the case of the Communist coup, the days of that movement were numbered by that time and the handwriting was on the wall and the military saw/felt it in there hearts and minds as individuals and ultimately as a whole. This is the place in the military where the leader(s) (ie Gorbachev) of any movement have to strike if what they propose is going to have any success...they have to win over the military. At that point depending on the strength of the movement, this new movement (in some cases what could be labeled a glorified cult) have the unquestioning support of the military...until the next one comes along.
Axelspeed
.
do any of you have the matrix wish i could just forget all this attitude sometimes?
me and the wife were fightitng again and she asked why i can't just go back and pretend or just forget all this... she said as an athnostic you either don't belive in god or don't believe that god cares so why can't you just go and fake it... i was dumbfounded i ask her why can't you just get the f*ck out and stop faking it... she stormed out and i sat down here..... so i ask ya, if you could forget all the negatives about the wbts (i know thats a lot) and just go back like nothing had ever happened would you?
Sometimes.
I agree. You cant truly go back once you know what you know. But who knows where the WT will be yrs. from now. I'm glad I know what I know now and not be forced to see/realize it 20 yrs from now..that would be sad.
Axelspeed
it is a part 2 to my "what makes a cult a 'cult'?
" thread.
so what would it take to trun the marines for example from a military cult to a mainstream religion.
I wasnt really speaking of W in particular, but more about the role of any military, which is unquestioning support. My point is that generally movements or cults are not born from the military as a whole. There are exceptions...like when there is an individual who charismatically steps out and ahead to create a new movement.
Axelspeed
last evening we went out with 2 other former jw couples a couple of guys and their wives i knew from the old days of bethel.
we were discussing the public apology that the catholic church just authorized to be made to the child abuse victims for their cases being mishandled as well as that $100 million dollar check they just cut.. .
and i will ask you all the same question .
I dont think its possible. I dont think they can even form the words to say a simple "We're sorry". Some dysfuntional parents have this same 'disorder' when it comes to apologizing to there children for past mistakes, they simply do not have it in them. So even more I would imagine when you speak for god....
I remember having to write those 6 statements down. I was amazed that there were no questions about this. I knew then that I would be making my exit from that role...way too much liability.
Axelspeed
it is a part 2 to my "what makes a cult a 'cult'?
" thread.
so what would it take to trun the marines for example from a military cult to a mainstream religion.
Usually the military has no creativity on its own. It is simply used as an arm of support for an existing movement or one that is about to emerge. It is the charismatic, the fanatic and the man of action that is the creator of a cult, movement or what have you. The purpose of any military is basically mindless and unquestioning support of an existing or emerging movement. Hoffer's "True Believer" is an great book that outlines the process of the creation of a mass movement (which when carried so far becomes for all intensive purposes 'a religion' and what could be defined in some cases as a cult) and the roles of each that and played out within it, including the military.
Axelspeed
