http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/google/4731313/google-ocean-has-atlantis-been-found-off-africa.html.
http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=31.254335,-24.258468&z=8&t=h&hl=en.
a "grid of streets" on the seabed at one of the proposed locations of the lost city of atlantis has been spotted on google ocean.
Come on, you can't be serious. Everyone knows that the ancients left Earth thousands of years ago because of a great plague, took Atlantis with them, left the Milky Way and settled down on the planet Lantea in the Pegasus galaxy.
Dorayakii of the gatebuilder class...
the following (from "the new jerusalem: the extraordinary true story of how a secret society rebuilt london", adrian gilbert, pages 356-362) provides the context of charles piazzi smyth.
these pages might also facilitate a better understanding of charles taze russells interest in the dimensions of the great pyramid.. --------------------------.
the development of victorian britain as the first great power of the industrial age went hand in hand with the growth of the british israel movement.
I can't remember where I heard it, but here goes... Do any of you know of a source that claims the royal family to believe that they are the literal decendants of Jesus by a secret marriage to Mary Magdalene? When I heard this the source claimed that's why they believe themselves to have devine right to the throne.
Yes Aculama, you're thinking of the Merovingian line of Kings. They were a Salian Frankish Royal blood line that was said to have descended from Mary Magdalene and Jesus. They're also said to be the guardians of theHoly Grail which is "san gréal" in Old French. Many writers have played on the pun with "sang réal" which means Royal Blood in Old French. The Merovingians first came to power in Gaul (modern France) in AD 481 under Clovis (often called Louis I) and played on Jewish/Christian imagery to establish their authority. They were often called reges criniti (the kings with long hair) in Latin believing Jesus to be a nazarite, which is evidence that the confusion between Nazarite and Nazarene was present early in Christendom. There is a lot of mystery surrounding the Merovingian Kings but it is known that they were a Germanic tribe, but had converted to Christianity, and adopted a version of Vulgar Latin as their native tongue (from which French is descendent) both in order to secure their position in relation to the Roman Church.
What was the level of impact that Smyth's work had on Russell?
I don't have any specific evidence of the Zionist link at hand, but just a cursory glance at the shared beliefs between Smyth and Russell reveals an extraordinary impact which must be taken as more than coincidental. Smyth was first and foremost an astronomer and a pyramidologist. He went so far as to say the Pyramid of Giza was planned and built by Noah. He invented the mythical "pyramid inch" which C.T.Russell used in his measurements, and forecast Jesus' return at 1882, and several other dates between up until 1911. Russell directly copied some of the pyramid drawings that Smyth had made and even went so far as to change them to suit his own prophetic time-table. It's not an outrageous assumption to say that Smyth must have influenced Russell's other belief systems as well.
If I have time I'll research the British-Israelite connexion as well.
the following (from "the new jerusalem: the extraordinary true story of how a secret society rebuilt london", adrian gilbert, pages 356-362) provides the context of charles piazzi smyth.
these pages might also facilitate a better understanding of charles taze russells interest in the dimensions of the great pyramid.. --------------------------.
the development of victorian britain as the first great power of the industrial age went hand in hand with the growth of the british israel movement.
That's a very interesting theory.
My research on the subject has led me to believe that it was never *literally* believed that the English were descended from the Israelites, rather, aspects like the Exodus were images used to illustrate the struggle that Parliament had against the monarchy and the struggle of Protestants in general but particularly the Puritans.
In England and in Scotland (and many countries of Europe such as Bohemia (modern Czech Republic), Luxumbourg, Belgium, Holland, Bulgaria, Norway, Finland and Spain) similar imagery was used for political effect from as early as the Middle Ages. This is shown in the heraldic lions featuring on the crests and coats of arms of those countries. In particular the "Lions passant" of the Kingdom of England, and the "Lion rampant" of the Kingdom of Scotland hark back to the first use of Normon lions in coats of arms in 1158. The continued use of lions when the two kingdoms were united in 1706 show just how important the lion had become as a symbol. The lion was also used as a comparison with the Lion of Judah at times.
The English always knew their real history of their land but especially during Cromwell's 1653 interregnum (where the remaining Puritans subjected England to strict dictatorship) the Isreal imagery gained new steam. A writer of the time referred to the "brief and full Parallel betwixt the History of Israel and our late and present Series of Affairs. In which Simile, Our present General is compar'd with Moses, as he was their Deliverer, Judge, and General". Cromwell used this imagery to great effect.
During the unification of the two kingdoms of England & Scotland in 1706 (to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain) the imagery again was exploited, comparing the unification of Britain to a kind of reversal of the splitting of King David's Israel into Samaria & Judah.
In most important aspect of Anglo-Israel imagery has to be England's de facto National Anthem "Jerusalem" (not to be confused with the anthem of the U.K of G.B). They believed that England was going to be the home of the lost Israelite tribes and vowed not to rest "til we have builded Jerusalem here in England's green and pleasant land". The rule of Christ would be accomplished through his saints at the end of time... in England. Many people argue that this is again merely imagery not a literal belief that Jerusalem was ever, or will ever be built in England. Jerusalem was at the time used as a symbol of peace and unity.
It's very interesting to note that the present lion rampant emblem of modern Jerusalem is actually based on the European lion rampant not the other way around.
UK of GB: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UK_Arms_1837.svg
England: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:England_COA.svg
Scotland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Royal_coat_of_arms_of_Scotland.svg
Jerusalem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jerusalem-coat-of-arms.svg
click for something heartwarming
...any premature infant of that weight and age had only a 10 percent chance for survival.
So that simply means that 1 out of 10 baby's of this level of prematurity survive.
It's a beautiful story, but the existence of God has nothing to do with it. I was born at 25 weeks, by caesarean section, I was among the lucky 10%. The other 90% sadly died. It's not being negative, it's just telling the whole story.
[Dr. Moshe] Daniel speculated that the cooling effect of the morgue slowed the infant's metabolism, causing her oxygen consumption to be very low.
The baby's slowed metabolism is thought to have slowed her oxygen consumption, keeping her brain from losing all its neural connections. By chance, perhaps by some kind of sensory input (shock), the heart re-started, feeding her lungs with the limited oxygen and enabling them to start drawing in even more oxygen, feeding the brain and continuing the process. Not a miracle, but a heartwarming story nonetheless.
Unfortunately, merely having a "warm-heart" is not going to make the situation better for the unlucky 90% that die. Doctors also get that "heartwarming" feeling, but they channel their feelings of love and pity into action. They don't just sit down marvelling at the small percentage of times when good-luck strikes... They do the research to try and keep as many people as possible from suffering and dying. Hopefully, medical science can progress towards finding the solution to keeping the 90% of unlucky babies alive too.
as jws we were no doubt staunch creationists.
but how do you feel now??
do you still opt for creation or do you now feel evolution offers the right answer.
For me the evidence of evolution is overwhelming. Human chromosone 2, endogenic retroviruses (ERV), redundancy (human foetuses with gills, human body hair, the coccyx, snakes with pelvises, whales with leg bones, flightless birds, non functioning eyes), unnecessary complications aka. unintelligent design (eg. sinuses, wisdom teeth, backwards retina, appendix, tonsils, shared opening for the trachea/oesophagus), elephant, horse and whale fossils showing missing links, virual and bacterial mutation and evolution, the wide variety of dogs, cabbages (cauliflower, brussels etc.) and pigeons through artificial selection, the difference between the races through mitochondrial-DNA. There is no escaping it for me, humans did not descend from "demigods" but rather from "lower" animals.
The God hypothesis is too wishy-washy for me. How is saying that God made Adam from dust and Eve from a rib any different from saying that Mbombo vomited the world from his stomach, that Marduk created the world from blood or that Atum masturbated the universe into existence?
The idea that God exists eternally holds no water for me. Why the default, natural state of the universe should be an intelligent being escapes me. In addition, the idea that He is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, when correlated with the existence of suffering and evil shows one of 3 things:
1) He is powerless 2) He is evil and doesn't care 3) He doesn't exist
The retort of free will has never made sense to me, because the majority of suffering is NOT caused by the exercise of free will, but by random occurances (Katrina, tsunamis, earthquakes, genetic deformities). In addition, new-born babies don't seem to have much free-will at all. The idea of God handing over power to the Devil for 6000 years to vindicate His name and prove that His way is the best way is at best deficient, at worse pure evil.
To me, theism is just an excuse not to accept our insignificance in the universe. Religion elevates the importance and ego of humans to cosmic proportions, science cuts us down to size and shows us how small we really are. To me, religion doesn't give life meaning, it merely replaces real meaning with false hopes.
i've been reading a few pages of threads from saturday until today and i can't understand why some,(actually very few) try to damage this site.
this is one of a handful of (ex)jw sites that really helps people get out of the organization.
the interaction that we have here shows anyone how we can leave the so- called "truth" and enjoy life!
On a side note, Did it occur to anyone else that a Jehovah's Witness might have done it to get the board closed by the powers that be? In my experience online with jw's I have seen VERY unchristian and even hateful conduct and lies to have my comments deleted along with personal attacks that slander my name.
This is a very real possibility. The anonymity of the internet allows many of them to take off the mask of the "kingdom smile" and become sneaky. My own blog was hacked into by an unknown Witness who knew I was gay, and posted homosexual pornographic shots on it and emailed the link to many of my JW friends. I don't use pornographic sites and I'm in a stable relationship of 2-years and counting, so you can imagine how hurt I was when I discovered this. Being gay has nothing to do with the problem, the problem is ignorant people who abuse the freedom and anonymity of the internet.
Although I will greatly miss this site, in a way I'm glad it is being shut down. I've had many intelligent discussions and debates here, but many of them turn into personal attacks when people who cannot rationally and civilly support their argument, decide to lash out in personal attacks against the poster or some quoted expert. That's not a good environment for lurkers or people who have serious doubts about the WTS, because it forces them back into the cult, with a tangible excuse not to stray from the flock again.
For example, yes we realise you are a Christian, but why continue to call homosexuality disgusting, and say things like "I'm not a homophobe at all, if a man wants to shove his *** where the sun don't shine it's his choice"? That kind of comment is not necessary, and it breeds hate. Equally, as an atheist I would never resort to calling Christians or theists idiots or other names. Most of us have been disciplined and trained by one of the most mentally oppressive religions out there, the least we can do is keep some of the good qualities we learned while we were there such as self-control, peace and kindness.
I currently live in Japan a very conformist society. The crime rate is extremely low here, but the policing is minimal. Japan has many serious problems of course, but people in general here have self-control and a natural aversion to offending others. The bane of this site (and of Western cvilisation in general) is that people abuse their freedom of speech, and self-control and lack respect for others. This results in lack of respect for the beliefs of others, for the rules of the forum and for the unspoken rules of the internet.
Yes it's a "free country" and you don't have to do anything, and it's even highly undesirable to be conformist or self-deprecating in any way (as the Japanese are good at doing). But it would contribute to a nice environment if that vehement minority of trolls and abusers could show a little more self regulation. Maybe then this site would not have been scheduled for closure.
Dorayakiiof the sorry for ranting class.
the twelfth fibonacci number is 144, since they start counting the sequence with zero.
that just seems an neat "coincidence" eh?
all this religious stuff has its roots in the study of mathematics and the stars, doesnt it?
144 is the smallest number with exactly 15 divisors. 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 12, 16, 18, 24, 36, 48, 72, 144...
It is the 12th number of the Fibonacci sequence: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144...
Roman numeral - CXLIV
Binary (Base2) - 10010000
Octal (Base8) - 220
Duodecimal (Base12) - 100
Hexadecimal (Base16) - 90
It is a dozen dozens (aka. a gross)... and is the telephone number for directory enquiries in Israel.
In bases other than 10, the number 666 it doesn't look so special (or scary).
Roman numeral - DCLXVI
Binary (Base2) - 1010011010
Octal (Base8) - 1232
Hexadecimal (Base16) - 29A
Duodecimal (Base12) - 476
Base32 - KQ
Base36 - IIBase60 - 11 06
It is a member of the Indices of prime Padovan sequence, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 14, 19, 30, 37, 84, 128, 469, 666, 1262, 1573, 2003, 2210...
The Roman numeral representation of the number 666 (DCLXVI: 500 + 100 + 50 + 10 + 5 + 1) uses each of the Roman numeral symbols with values under 1,000 once , occurring in descending order of their respective values.
The word "apostates" in ancient Greek adds up to 666.
A alpha = 1
P pi = 80
O omicron = 70
ST stigma = 6
A alpha = 1
T tau = 300
E eta = 8
S sigma = 200
-----
666
-----
The fear of the number 666 is called "hexakosioihexekontahexaphobia".
first of a three-part series presented by richard dawkins starts tonight at 8:00. it doesn't get much better than this!.
http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/f/famelab/.
Dawkins' personality may be rather preachy, and not very forgiving to theists and agnostics, but his way of explaining evolution is pure poetry.
Dawkins: "The total amount of suffering in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to say these words, thousands of animals sre running for their lives, whimpering with fear, feeling teeth sink into their throats. Thousands are dying from starvation or disease, or feeling a parsite rasping away from within. There is no central authority, no safty net. For most animals the reality of life is struggling, suffering and death...
For Darwin, grappling with natures horrors must have been a huge challenge. As a young man he had wanted to become a country parson. He had believed in an orderly and harmonious animal kingdom. Now, he contemplated the brutal reality of nature".
If anyone has actually seen nature, (true nature not our man-made paradise of tamed, domesticated or wild urban animals), he cannot continue in the belief that a benevolent god constructed nature in an orderly, harmonious way. The cruelty of an omnipotent god who punishes sinless animals for the sins of huumans, what alone punishing sinless human children for their 'potential' to sin has no satisfacory judeo-christian answer.
No matter how many times it was explained to me why God "allowed" unbearable severe suffering, I never understood. Maybe yes, it is good for us to feel the pain of a fire, to teach us a lesson about danger, or to suffer the pain of someone's scorn because we hurt them in some way, but the unwarrented suffering of babies, children and adults around the world teaches us nothing and drives man to all sorts of desperation.
Only a natural explanation to life explains why suffering continues. The only way to improve this situation is through humans' evolved sense of inter-species cooperation which led to our morality.
ok, so a recent thread about the latest wt antiscience content (found here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/159423/1.ashx).
has got me thinking.... it does seem really hard to hold active trust in the bible as the word of.
god without being leery of science.
The writer of Genesis was retelling a story which belonged to the Babyonians which probably belonged to an ancient civilisation way before the end of the ice age. Like many oral traditions, it suffered from the effects of 'chinese whispers syndrome' until it was written down, and probably furthur 'chinese whisper' like problems after being written.
Not only that but the Genesis account was re-written at least 3 times, with at least 400 years between the different authors. Then the multiple versions were superimposed on each other and subsequently edited to fit the in vogue political ideology of the time the most salient of which is the reform towards monotheism in the time of Hezekiah.
Hooberus: The problem with this is that that fossil record is not a record of the creation week of life, but instead a record of the later destruction of life (Genesis 6-9).
The "later destruction of life" (flood) you refer to would have killed all the animals at the same time. They would be found at the same geological level. In reality they are found at different levels. Therefore the fossil record is a record of the destruction of life, but not of its simultaneous destruction as you imply. You never find a mammouth fossil next to an trilobite fossil because they did not live at the same time. Therefore, the fossil record can act as a record of which animals lived at which time relative to each other.
With the multiple dating techniques (that all agree with each other) the picture we get of the different periods and epochs is practically undisputable (although science, being science is always open to new data which may contradict the status quo). We have carbon-14 dating, and other radiometric methods such as:
rubidium/strontium dating,
thorium/lead dating,
potassium/argon dating,
lutetium/hafnium dating,
samarium/neodymium dating,
argon-40/argon-39 dating, and
uranium/lead dating
Even if one of those methods was flawed, it is highly unlikely that they are all erroneous. Moreover, if we really didn't trust radiometrics (isotopic stratigraphy), we also have at our disposal:
paleomagnetics (volcanic / seismic stratigraphy),
sedimentary facies analysis (sedimentary stratigraphy),
biostratigraphy
Moreover there are so many more other geologic and non-radiometric relative dating methods whicch agree with each other. I could reel off a few more, but I'm sure that's enough to prove the point.
If the Bible is going to be considered an article of faith or a poetic history of mankinds early thoughts, hopes and dreams, let it be so, but don't let it impinge on the domain of science where it has proven again and again that it has no jurisdiction.
i was always uncomfortable singing at the meetings when i was a kid.
as an adult, i rarely if ever sing anymore because i think it is a joke.
sit down, listen for 45 minutes.
There was one Kingdom Song which rhymed the words "command" and "stand" (which don't rhyme in most varieties of British English spoken in the south). It sounded quite odd to me and I was always puzzled about that one until I heard it sung up-north...
But the one that made me laugh the most was the one which went: "In a land so good and spacious, free from things vexatious, look a happy crowd vivacious, in their service which is efficacious". Sometimes the rhyming did push it a bit, and of course as a child I never understood a word of that song. As a teenager I used to laugh at the air of pretentiousness those long words gave the song.
Fear not those who kill the body,
but cannot destroy the soul...Hey, by their own standards that is a false religious idea.
We were singing about the soul surviving death!
White Dove, which song did this come from? What title?
This may be an important find.
Hubert
Song 27 - Fear them Not
