Posts by dorayakii

11

English - the theocratic language?

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

a brother in vienna told me he leaned english because that way you get closer to god's channel of truth.

are such sentiments common in non-english-speaking lands?

strange how a religiously minded evangelical may be encouraged to learn greek and hebrew, but a jehovah's witnesses opts to learn english.

dorayakii

English is the theocratic language?
How about this as an example,
The New World Translation is a translation from the Bible languages to modern english. The english NWT is then translated to other languages like french, german, and so on, just to make sure everyone, no matter what language they are reading the NWT in, will get the same meaning as in the english language NWT.
--VM44

Yes this was true. My old French NWT was translated from the English version, and it was obvious. Since 1996 however, the French NWT has been translated directly from a Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. Needless to say, the new NWT reads better than the old one, but as with the English one, it still maintains its characteristic wooden, stiff, verbose manner, which comes from an attempt at translating the original texts, for the most part, word-for-word.

11

English - the theocratic language?

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

a brother in vienna told me he leaned english because that way you get closer to god's channel of truth.

are such sentiments common in non-english-speaking lands?

strange how a religiously minded evangelical may be encouraged to learn greek and hebrew, but a jehovah's witnesses opts to learn english.

dorayakii

English is defenitely the language of Jehovah's Witnesses. If my memory servers me I beleive you will find in their literature a few comments showing that God choose the english language and America, as it was to be the most international language and where there was more religious freedom.

As strange as it may seem, you are right gring. The "Reasoning book's answer to "Are Jehovha's Witnesses an American religion?" is:

They are advocates of God’s Kingdom, not of the political, economic, or social system of any nation of this old world.
It is true that Jehovah’s Witnesses had their modern-day start in the United States. The location of their world headquarters there has helped to make it possible to print and ship Bible literature to most parts of the world. But the Witnesses do not favor one nation over another; they are found in almost every nation, and they have offices in many parts of the earth to supervise their activity in those areas.
Consider: Jesus as a Jew was born in Palestine, but Christianity is not a Palestinian religion, is it? The place of Jesus’ human birth is not the most important factor to consider. What Jesus taught originated with his Father, Jehovah God, who deals impartially with people of all nations.—John 14:10; Acts 10:34, 35.

I have not heard of any references to the usew of the English language using this type of reasoning, but if it exists i would love to see the references.

16

Does Smoking Cause Your Teeth To Drop Out?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

.

sat last night with 3 smokers in their 50's.

all were complaining about their teeth and how they were becoming very loose and how many had all ready lost several teeth by dint of them literally just becoming loose and then falling out.. englishman.

dorayakii

LOL Englishman. One of the stereotypical (sp?) things I have heard about people from England is their bad teeth. Never been there myself.

LOOOOL, its funny, we have the same stereotype about Frenchmen... and the French say that Americans' teeth are white and shiny at the front and decayed at the back because they don't get free dentist care... The world is indeed funny...

9

Satan in the OT... Did the Israelites view him as a real person?

by dorayakii in

was satan viewed as a real person by the israelites?.

the funny thing is, when david was incited to conduct the "illegal census" in 2 samuel 24, the original hebrew says that jehovah himself incited david to conduct the census, .

the exact word for word translation of 2 samuel in the original hebrew is: .

dorayakii

I believe the Jewish view harmonises all the references to "haSatan" in the Old Testament. It also sorts out the contradition in Isaiah 45:5-7...

Yahweh was viewed, if not as "haSatan" himself, at least as the one who commanded haSatan... It was in this capacity that YHWH caused Job to be tested resulting in a positive proof of his faith, and it was in this way that YHWH deliberately created the Snake in Eden to test their faith.

Isaiah 45
5 I am YHWH, and there is no other; besides (except) Me there is no God. I will gird (encirle, bind hold close) you, though you have not known (percieved, recognised, admitted) Me;
6 That men may know (percieve, recognise, admit) from the east (rising) to the west (setting) of the sun (shining shield) That there is no one besides (except) Me. I am YHWH, and there is no other
7 The One forming light and creating darkness, making (causing) peace (well-being) and creating calamity (evil, pain, misery, badness, distress, injury), I, YHWH am doing these things

http://www.outreachjudaism.org/satan.html

In effect he is saying "I am Jehovah, and i am the one who creates peace AND pain & misery, well-being AND distress & evil... there is no other who causes these things"

This explanation clarifies a lot of the Israelite creation story for me. The very fact that Christians say that God did not create evil always caused me to wonder, "well, if God is all-perfect and cannot create anything imperfect (Christian definition) the why does evil exist?...... why did Jehovah allow Satan the Devil to continue existing if he hates him so much and loves humans so much?...... Why in Judges 20, did Jehovah assure the Israelites that if they went up against the Benjaminites they would have a sure victory, then allow them to be completely routed, twice...... How can you call the instant execution of Uzzah for merely touching the Ark of the Covenant, righteous behavior?...... How is it possible that a God with the perfectly balanced qualities of love, justice, wisdom and power could get so angry and destroy the whol world?...... How could Abraham in effect "barter" for the lives of the people of Sodam and Gomorrah if God was so perfect and had already made up his mind?..."

The free-will arguement was never satisfactory for me. The Christian insistance on God being completely blameless from the negative aspects of this world never held water to me...

9

Satan in the OT... Did the Israelites view him as a real person?

by dorayakii in

was satan viewed as a real person by the israelites?.

the funny thing is, when david was incited to conduct the "illegal census" in 2 samuel 24, the original hebrew says that jehovah himself incited david to conduct the census, .

the exact word for word translation of 2 samuel in the original hebrew is: .

dorayakii

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/06-Jewish-Thought/section-36.html Judaism does not believe in the devil, but we do believe in Satan (who
more properly should be called "the Satan"). As this demonstrates, the
Jewish view of Satan is very different than the Christian one. Here's
a summary of the Jewish view; you can also find information at Alyza
(Gretchen) Shapiro's web site at:
http://www.cyberdrive.net/%7Ealyza/Jewish/satan.html

The word satan means challenger. With the leading ha- to make haSatan,
it refers to /the/ challenger. This describes Satan as the angel who
is the embodiment of man's challenges. Satan works for G-d. His job is
to make choosing good over evil enough of a challenge so that it can
be a meaningful choice. Contrast this to Christianity, which sees
Satan as God's opponent. In Jewish thought, the idea that there exists
anything capable of setting itself up as God's opponent would be
considered overly polytheistic--you are setting up the devil to be a
god or demigod.
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=55424
http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?s=satan&f=tqak&offset=1
http://www.beingjewish.com/basics/satan.html

14

Census anyone

by kls in

those census that you get in the mail that want to know everything and i mean everything about your income ,house size, rooms in your home and how much it costs you for heating your home and on and on ,to me it is personal and wandering if i have to send it back because it makes me uncomfortable to fill this out and expose my everything to strangers .

have you ever gotten one and how do /did you feel about it and did you send it in.

by law do i have to fill it out and return it ?

dorayakii

Monkey is getting really confused and gas is building up

He's talking about the census that King David conducted... Jehovah was well angry that David counted a few people, so he sent a plague to kill 70,000 Israelites... Godly justice at its best...

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/95743/1.ashx

The funny thing is, when David was incited to conduct the "illegal census" in 2 Samuel 24, the original Hebrew says that Jehovah himself incited David to conduct the census,

The exact word for word translation of 2 Samuel in the original Hebrew is:
"And again the anger (flaired-nostrils) of YHWH was kindled (burning) against Israel, and He moved (enticed/incited) David against them to say (utter), Go (proceed) number (count/reckon/perform a census on) Israel and Judah."

9

Satan in the OT... Did the Israelites view him as a real person?

by dorayakii in

was satan viewed as a real person by the israelites?.

the funny thing is, when david was incited to conduct the "illegal census" in 2 samuel 24, the original hebrew says that jehovah himself incited david to conduct the census, .

the exact word for word translation of 2 samuel in the original hebrew is: .

dorayakii

Was Satan viewed as a real person by the Israelites? The funny thing is, when David was incited to conduct the "illegal census" in 2 Samuel 24, the original Hebrew says that Jehovah himself incited David to conduct the census,

The exact word for word translation of 2 Samuel in the original Hebrew is:

"And again the anger (flaired-nostrils) of YHWH was kindled (burning) against Israel, and He moved (enticed/incited) David against them to say (utter), Go (proceed) number (count/reckon/perform a census on) Israel and Judah."

By 1 Chronicles 21 we seem to have "new light" that tells us that it was "the Satan" that did the tempting. Interestingly, this is the FIRST TIME "the Satan" is mentionned in the Bible. There is a clear discrepancy here, and the NWT, in its well-documented and constant effort to reconcile biblical contradictions, heavily distorts the text by attributing the act to an impersonal "one" who is inciting David.

There is only one other time (apart from apart from extensive mentions as part of a celestial confrontation over Job) that "the Satan" is mentionned in the Old Testament, and that is in Zechariah 3. Yes, believe it or not, apart from in Job, the name "Satan" only comes up twice in the whole of the Old Testament, and for minor wrongs at that, one of those occurances is even attributed to Jehovah in a parallel account !!! (& Obviously, you also have the snake that just couldn't shut up in the Garden of Eden but was never named as "Satan", and the fallen "shining one", often incorrectly called "Lucifer" as a proper name).

Many scholars say that a change in doctrine (aka "new light") as to the personhood of "the Satan" happened between the writing of 2 Samuel and 1 Chronicles. Before this major doctrinal change, YHWH was credited with both the good and the bad and "the resister" was just a negative aspect of the God YHWH that the israelites worshipped, but after this major doctrine change, "the Satan" split off from YHWH to become a separate entity thereby leaving YHWH to be attributed with only the positive occurances. This is why he was a vengeful, cruel God in the early OT, but transformed himself into a God of love in the NT...

Satan as a seperate entity was largly ignored though, until the time of Jesus and the apostles. "The Devil" is not once mentionned in the Old Testament (obviously due to the fact that "tou diabolon" is a Greek phrase)... In the New Testament the "diabolon" or "Devil" is mentionned extensively as a seperate being. "Satan" is mentionned about 38 times and "the Devil" 34 times in the New Testament.

This means that (excluding Job, the snake in Eden and a single reference at Isaiah 4:12 to the fallen "shining one" or Lucifer), Satan the Devil is mentionned a total of 2 times in the OT and 72 times in the NT (also excluding all NT references to the Great Dragon, a Roaring Lion and the Original Serpent). Now in your Bible, feel the thickness of the OT in relation to that of the NT... does that seem balanced to you?

If we want to be picky and include all the references to snakes, lions and fallen angels, there is still a gross imbalance that shows the early Christians' paranoia about this entity, and there is still a conspicuous, sudden appearance of "the Satan" as a seperate being to YHWH halfway through the Old Testament. and a distict feeling that early on, YHWH and "the Satan" were just two sides of the same entity.

The JW story of Satan as the fallen angel, the original serpent and "Satan" the "Devil" seems to be a mixture of many different views of the origin of wickedness held by the early israelites.

232

IM from a dub who is disgusted at my presence on this board

by stillajwexelder in

i have read your posts and am suprised, shocked and disgusted at the fact you still are an active witness who goes to the meetings 70% of the time and at the same time go to apostefests and curse and talk bad about the truth.

dont you know that the bible said people like you would quietly slip in the congregation and subvert the faith of some?

are you not afraid of god and jesus?

dorayakii

I don't believe you defd, i just can't believe you are a witness in good standing, i can't put my finger on it but you are not who you say you are... its partly the idea that you feel comfortable coming to a well known "apostate" forum, partly the violent comments you throw at fellow posters, and your vocal denouncing of others who don't follow Christ's example, at the same time completely denying his demeanor and attitude yourself...

Can you really imagine Jesus using such a futile set of arguements and sneekily making a personal attack on somebody? You obviously have a distorted view on the way the conscience works and i think you may need to go and have a long look at yourself to see whether it is really worth coming back here to sling your honey-coated insults at fellow forum members...

If you are to be part of that religion, i suggest you go way and throw yourself into it "whole-souled" and get involved in "upbuilding association" to help your spirituality. Do you not think that your coming to this forum constitutes the "eating with such a man" mentioned at 1 Corinthians 5:11?... If you are really serious, i suggest you go and read that whole chapter 1 Corinthians 5 and see where you stand.

If you are not serious about being one of Jehovah's Witnesses, then i suggest you continue reading and posting here, but, open your mind to the possibility that the WTS are wrong and try and prove that to yourself... You cannot have it both ways... If you are to continue "eating from the table of the demons" on this forum, then you are going to have to stop judging people who post on JWD but still attend meetings... Pull the rafter out of your own eye before you attempt to pull the straw out of another's...

In your case, i cannot see why you are sitting on the fence, as it were, because that IS what you are doing, sitting on the fence, looking into the next field... Please think about this, because you have offended many people here (most notably and recently, your brash, heartless reply to "Shunned Father's" thread), and my mind is at a loss for how, even a JW in good standing, can believe this to be correct comportment or acceptable behavior. If you were suspicious as to the threads authenticity, the moral thing to do would have been to just leave it, ignore it, and let that thread unfold as it was unfolding, instead of adding your little two-pence and risking the possibility that it could be true and that you could cause even more pain. Any faithful witness would sincerely hope you didn't argue like this with people on the ministry, because you would not by any stretch of the imagination "reflect well on Jehovah's organisation"...

If you cannot stand seeing people talk the way they do here about the beliefs of Jehovahs Winesses, the solution is simple... just don't come here... your one-man crusade will not change anything... If you can, just reflect on just one part of what you have said...

You say he knows the truth. And that is exactly my gripe! Read his posts. He Talks NOTHING like a witness of God would talk. But HE KNOWS THE TRUTH! Give me a break.

20

One of my employees has cancer...from smoking

by wanderlustguy in

jw
friends

one of the things i can't deal very well with is smoking.

i remember telling someone i loved i really wanted them to stop because i didn't want to be the man holding her as she gasped for air dying from the habit.

not 2 minutes after we broke up she was back at it, strangely that hurt me as much as the breakup, thinking of her suffering one day as i had seen others do...all because of cigs.... one of my technicians came in today that i have been having trouble with, his perfomance had become horrible, and i had intended to let him go.

dorayakii

I'm sorry to hear the bad news Wander, its a habit i can't stand either... It make your teeth yellow, your breath stink, it diminishes your health, makes you look common, and annoys and even harms people around you... i just dont understand the attraction... I hope he will finally quit this habit and find a way to disprove the doctor's bad prediction...

44

Dungeons and Dragons game & JW urban legends

by rebel8 in

does anyone remember this game from (i think) the early '80s?

it's a role playing game of some sort that included some violent imagery or something.. i remember jws (and the media, come to think of it) making a big, big deal of it.

something like it was demonized or made kids murder people.

dorayakii

I was never allowed to play D&D, i was too young anyway... i was also never allowed to watch "Knightmare", a quiz show on TV where kids had to guide bindfolded teammates around a comuter simulated castle... nor was i permitted to watch "The Crystal Maze" because the baald-headed presenter looked creepy and it had a crystal ball in it at the end (ooooh so demonic)...