Posts by dorayakii

32

Orwell, 1984, and the Watchtower

by RichieRich in

jw
friends

so my english class just got handed (yesterday) 1984, by george orwell.

its a book i've been wanting to read for a long time, but haven't been able to (i read non stop for english class).. so i was really excited when i got the book.

from what i've heard about it, it seemed like it would be really pertinent for people in the watchtower.. all i can say is wow.

dorayakii

carla: Would a current jw (not apostate type) be able to read 1984 and see the similarities? Would they even notice?

No they will not see the similarities at all, simply because they are using doublethink to ignore them...
I love the book, i've read it 4 times. I loved it even before i noticed the similarities with the WT... ...and my, aren't there just too many insane similarities between it and the Watchtower world???
The anonymous and all-powerful Big Brother
Inner / Outer Party members
Thoughtcrime and facecrime
Doublethink, crimestop and blackwhite
The "Apostate" Emmanuel Goldstein
The 5 minutes Hate
Newspeak = Theocratese
Apostate literature produced by the brotherhood
"Oligarchical Collectivism" = "Crisis of Conscience"
The constant reports of over-production
The constant hiding of real emotions
Winston's job of re-writing history as the Party sees fit
The concept of the unperson FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH ...but as various ones have already said, oncw you're out of an oppresive system (such as the Watchtower), by no means stop applying the book to new and more insidious ways that you are being oppressed.

52

How would JWs run a country if they had one?

by Spectrum in

jw
friends

can anybody imagine what it would be like to live in a country run by jws?

what would they call it?

what laws would they have?

dorayakii

Spectrum may the quote "The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates" maybe they are answering the question of why apostates are not under draconian laws, rather than your interpretation of "we'd like to kill them if only we could legally get our hands on them."

The very fact that they've quoted such a large portion of the scripture in Deuteronomy and used the American Standard Bible for extra effect, indicates to me that this is more than just "lets praise and thank Jehovah that apostates are not stoned today". Its a bit like the difference between saying to a child, "if i wasn't in public i'd give you a right spanking" as opposed to saying "look how loving i am as a father, if i wasn't so loving, i'd beat you to a pulp here in the street"... Which do you think it could be?

Think about it, its the same god, Jehovah, who ordered the Israelites to kill the apostates, who orders the JWs not to kill them... Has this made him more loving as a god?

In addition the context of the quotation in a fuller sence is represented like this... "The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God's law requires us......"

I have no doubt as to the intention of this statement. In ancient Israel it was the custom for the family to begin the stoning of an apostate. Nowadays, that is illegal... we are prevented from killing them even though they are our family... however, the worse we can do is shun them, so we'll do that instead. It's quite clear.

then you are saying that these pacifist that don't believe in war and violence would pick up a stone and kill us, even after Christ's example with the prostitute?
That's stretching it a bit but it will be their own country so things do change under knew circumstances.

That's it, you've hit the proverbial nail on the head. JWs will not do anything unless they are told to do it. If they had their own country, they would become even more corrupt than they are now, and i'm sure they'd use the Warning Examples video, the bit where the High Priest to kill those two people in the tent, to prove how capital punishment is from God. The US government can exuse capital punishment, why not the even less civilised JWs??

22

C'mon Watchtower: How long will the Blood brochure stay online?

by Neo in

hi wt monitors!

i think you've noticed you'll be experiencing some ugly times in the near future.

soooo, with about 40 pages of exposure of your lies and misrepresentations in a law journal read by experts all over the globe, with an internet-based dissemination work force that will spread the news to tens of thousands of other people, how long will you leave the how can blood save your life brochure on watchtower.org?.

dorayakii

Hi WT monitors! I think you've noticed you'll be experiencing some ugly times in the near future.

I love your persona Neo... its just like how Neo spoke to the Agents at the end of the original Matrix film, hehehe

52

How would JWs run a country if they had one?

by Spectrum in

jw
friends

can anybody imagine what it would be like to live in a country run by jws?

what would they call it?

what laws would they have?

dorayakii

gringojj There was a WT once where they said the only reason they dont stone apostates to death is because it breaks the current laws.

Super_Becka Ooo, can someone find me a reference for that statement?? Maybe the publication information (date, page number, etc.) or better yet, does someone have a scan of the article that states that??

Here's the quote:

"We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. "Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee."-Deut. 13:6-11, AS."
"Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws."
"The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship. However, God's law requires us to recognize their being disfellowshiped from his congregation, and this despite the fact that the law of the land in which we live requires us under some natural obligation to live with and have dealings with such apostates under the same roof."
Watchtower November 15th 1952

Wow, I didn’t think the love of Christ meant that you really want to do something and the only thing holding you back is the Law. I thought it meant that you wouldn’t even want to do do such a thing, that it wouldn’t come up into your heart…

Oh well, as a non-believer, i'm sure that aspect of the love of Christ hasn't been revealed to me...

17

"Special Talk" being given next week about blood

by dorayakii in

i just got back from the meeting minutes ago.

we had an announcement at the kh this evening that there will be a special talk next service meeting entitled "obeissons au commandement divin de nous abstenir du sang"... which means "let us obey the divin commandment to abstain from blood"

i asked the presiding overseer why the blood talk was being given so early, and not in line with the kingdom ministry schedule.

dorayakii

Mmm, i'm still not sure, the blood talk IS always in early January isn't it?

The elders had an elders meeting after the final song and prayer, so as i was leaving straight away, i rushed to interrogate the PO.

I'm not sure if this really is something to talk about, but i don't have a Kingdom Ministry, so i can't really look it up.

It's proably just a normal talk.

17

"Special Talk" being given next week about blood

by dorayakii in

i just got back from the meeting minutes ago.

we had an announcement at the kh this evening that there will be a special talk next service meeting entitled "obeissons au commandement divin de nous abstenir du sang"... which means "let us obey the divin commandment to abstain from blood"

i asked the presiding overseer why the blood talk was being given so early, and not in line with the kingdom ministry schedule.

dorayakii

Your 1000th post and you wasted it on me... awww, how thoughtful Congratulations Carla

Sorry about that, that always happens when i click enter by accident, before i've written anything.

17

"Special Talk" being given next week about blood

by dorayakii in

i just got back from the meeting minutes ago.

we had an announcement at the kh this evening that there will be a special talk next service meeting entitled "obeissons au commandement divin de nous abstenir du sang"... which means "let us obey the divin commandment to abstain from blood"

i asked the presiding overseer why the blood talk was being given so early, and not in line with the kingdom ministry schedule.

dorayakii

I just got back from the meeting minutes ago. We had an announcement at the KH this evening that there will be a special talk next service meeting entitled "Obéissons au commandement divin de nous abstenir du sang"... which means "Let us obey the divin commandment to abstain from blood" I asked the Presiding Overseer why the blood talk was being given so early, and not in line with the Kingdom Ministry schedule. Usually, i said, the talk is given in early January. He replied that there was a letter from the branch office and we're doing it early this year.

I can't help but wonder if this is to do with the Big News (there I go again mentioning the BBN again). maybe they are getting us to sign even more papers signing our lives away.
I for one am not signing anything, i don't carry a blood-card with me and, without my parents' or my congregation's knowledge, i've advised my GP (doctor) to destroy all Advanced Medical Directive's that my parents have made for me.

59

Anyone Related to Anyone Famous?

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

.

anyone related to any actors, actresses, writers, politicians etc either alive or dead?.

dorayakii

Crumpet: our very own dorayki is related to an award-winning author, but I will let him say who if he wants.!

Yes, hehe, my cousin is Zadie Smith, the author of White Teeth , The Autograph Man and On Beauty.

She's won The Guardian First Book Award, The Whitbread First Novel Award, The James Tait Black Memorial Prize for Fiction, the WH Smith Award for New Talent the Commonwealth Writers' First Book Award and the Betty Trask Prize for her books. My side of the family, who are JWs, and her side split many years ago (in 1975), so i don't really know her as well as one SHOULD know one's first cousin.

A couple of years ago there was a television remake of her book 'White Teeth', which is about three British families from different ethnic backgrounds whose lives become intertwined. One of the main story-lines is about a girl named Clara (allegorical of Zadie's mother) who is brought up as a witness, but who rebels against her hysterical JW mother and runs away from home and from the cult. She goes to live with a man named Archie and has a child named Irie, who is allegorical of Zadie herself (both are born in October 1975)...

Zadie's two brothers are both garage artists (garage is a form of British Hip-Hop, pronounced 'garidge'). One of them, who goes under the pseudonym of 'Doc Brown' has just released an album called 'The Document'. I'm not sure if this song make it into the final album, but in the demo CD there was a song that talks about the life of growing up as a witness (even though none of them were brought up as JWs).

14

It truly was BIG news . . . . . . but not for everyone.

by nicolaou in

i've been digesting the news since about 5am and i'll admit to having mixed feelings.

i think i need to explain some background and then what i have to say should make more sense.

i was 'raised in the truth' as were my 2 brothers and 2 sisters.

dorayakii

{{{nicolaou}}}, i understand, and empathise...

you are quite right, things will most likely not take place as easy as: life - watchtower = family

Bringing the watchtower to bankcrupcy would definately be taken as the start of the Great Tribulation for loyal Witnesses. The real reason for the bankrupcy will be twisted and hidden from the sheep, they have an extensive control of information flow to the "sheep". The only way we'll get our friends and family back, is if they take the initiative themselves to start thinking for themselves.

The Watchtower will forever survive, even without money, perhaps under a different name. The Watchtower is eternal, it will survive as long as there are ignorant and gullible people (as once we all were).

Don't get me wrong, i'm extremely excited by the "Big News", it is HUGE. However, the Watchtower, although it is a corporation, is primarily also an idea, and ideas are extremely resiliant, extremly difficult to extinguish.

328

Journal of Church and State: WT NO-BLOOD EXPOSE'

by AndersonsInfo in

(baylor university, waco, tx) an essay entitled, "jehovah's witnesses, blood transfusions, and the tort of misrepresentation," found in the autumn issue of baylor universitys prestigious journal of church and state, published december 13, 2005, exposes the vulnerability of jehovahs witnesses religious organization to massive claims for compensation because of the religions misrepresentation of the medical risks of blood transfusions.

this milestone essay critically examines one of the religions main publications for teaching their children and new recruits about their blood beliefs, how can blood save your life?

the peer-reviewed essay details many misrepresentations of medical facts, which the religion partly relies on to support its blood prohibition, thus denying its members from making fully informed medical decisions.

dorayakii

The Watchtower Corporation, and any other religion, can be sued for dishonestly convincing us to do potentially harmful things.

AuldSoul: Spot on, doryakii! ............ You have it. It is about the deceitful means used to convince persons of the reasonableness of a course of action.

So, how far can this go?... How can this Big News be put to good use in countries other than the US?... and does anyone have any ideas of the amount of money, (or the percentage of their turnover) that the Watchtower Corporation can lose from the law-suits that ensue? Any realistic estimates?

Edited after consideration of DevonMcBride's post:

This news has the potential to cause the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to file for bankruptcy in years to come.

How many years?? Realistic estimates anyone?