Terry

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Posts by Terry

• 
  37

  Why is it wrong for Christians to celebrate Christmas?

  by james_woods in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was inspired by terry's thread.... it is something that raises many questions about the jw belief system.. .

  for one thing - the bible certainly explains all the details of the christ birth.

  it certainly does not tell people to avoid celebrating it with feasts, customs, etc.

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  Terry

  Study this rather extensive tour of the development and borrowings leading to official Watchtower doctrine on END TIMES and Date setting.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses
• 
  37

  Why is it wrong for Christians to celebrate Christmas?

  by james_woods in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was inspired by terry's thread.... it is something that raises many questions about the jw belief system.. .

  for one thing - the bible certainly explains all the details of the christ birth.

  it certainly does not tell people to avoid celebrating it with feasts, customs, etc.

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• 

  Terry

  If you rewind the video backward through the century to the mid 1800's you'll discover something interesting.

  Take a look at what sort of people listened to William Miller's silly prediction for THE END OF THE WORLD.

  Who were these people?

  ______________________

  Before we can understand we must realize something about Americans!

  America was colonized by religious nuts!

  Puritans pissed people off in Europe by being WEIRD.

  Holier-than-thou and obsessive compulsive families settled and built cities and lots of churches.

  You could be hanged for missing church on Sunday!

  ___________________

  Now HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

  _________________

  Less than a century after Americans fought for Independence from England, along comes this war hero, WILLIAM MILLER.

  He made a name for himself in the War of 1812 and he was a kind of semi-Apostate from the Baptist church at the time!

  But, he figured his military success just HAD TO BE because God was on HIS side. (i.e. the man was delusional.)

  _______________________

  Just like every subsequent nut-job, Miller sat down with his Bible, a pen, and paper, and asked the same God who gave him military victory

  to tell him when JEEZUS was coming back. Gentiles Time: HERE WE COME!!

  _______________________

  When Miller shared this crackpot wack-job nonsense with his fellow Baptists. . . (wait for it. . . wait for it. . .) most of them thought he was crazy. But, they gave him respect for being a Baptist WAR HERO.

  ONLY A FEW in each church thought it was not only plausible, but it sounded ABSOLUTELY TRUE!

  __________________

  I SAID ALL THE ABOVE TO NOW SAY THIS:

  _____________________

  The Great Disappointment only disappointed his fellow nutjobs. The rest of the maybe-yes, maybe-no followers simply went back to church!

  So what?

  So, even though Miller's computations were DEAD WRONG (proving himself a False Prophet) enough nut-jobs hung around for a second disappointment.

  And a 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.

  Miller gave up, but his fellow crazies WOULD NEVER ADMIT THEY WERE WRONG.

  What kind of people do NOT admit they are wrong even when completely disproved?

  THAT'S THE ANSWER TO THE TOPIC QUESTION.

  People who were able to think they are right and everybody else is wrong CAN COME UP WITH ANYTHING as long as it is contrary to common sense.

  Miller begat the 2nd Advent sect.

  The 2nd Advent sect begat the Bible Students.

  The Bible Students who follow Russell begat a cult led by Rutherford.

  Rutherford begat Jehovah's Witnesses.

  Jehovah's Witnesses begat CRACKPOT BELIEFS contrary to common sense.
• 
  5

  A Wonderful alternative to the usual anti-JW snark

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  wow, i just discovered this.. out of the sea of ex-jw videos on youtube this wonderful vid came to my notice.. she uses humor, parody, and actual wt quotations to make her points far better.

  than most of these anti-watchtower diatribes, imho.. check her out:.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtfelnrjytk.

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  Terry

  Wow, I just discovered this.

  Out of the sea of Ex-JW videos on YouTube this wonderful vid came to my notice.

  She uses humor, parody, and actual WT quotations to make her points FAR BETTER

  than most of these anti-Watchtower diatribes, imho.

  Check her out:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtfeLnrJyTk

  __________________________________

  And my alltime favorite:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwGZCvH3rNs
• 
  13

  Billion + believe in Satan. Should all schools be mandated to teach Creationism?

  by Gnostic Bishop in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  billion + believe in satan.

  should all schools be mandated to teach creationism?.

  we must save our children from foolish belief in the supernatural.. .

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  Terry

  CREATIONSIM=BAD SCIENCE

  Should we teach bad science?

  __________________________

  Religion is essentially a binding together of superstitious people under rules of behavior, and system of rituals.

  Even in Christianity there are 41,000 denominations. (Read: OPINIONS)

  It is barely possible to teach a GENERAL teaching about Jesus Christ because of those 41,000 differing versions

  of who, what, why, and how Jesus Christ is worshipped (or not worshipped, in the case of JW's.)

  _____________________

  SCIENCE teaches a method of discovery, testing and proving. SCIENCE contains a means of FALSIFYING your conclusions by searching for

  exceptions. This way there is progress.

  RELIGION relies on vested AUTHORITY. There is no testing of religion; instead, religion TESTS YOU.

  SCIENCE asks questions without answers in order to learn.

  RELIGION gives you answers which shall not be questioned. It provides fear.
• 
  12

  What Is The Ideal Discussion Board For You?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i think these boards are great!

  it gives us the opportunity to express our feelings, our viewpoints, our concerns, etc.

  when we were jws we could not freely do any of that.

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  Terry

  . . . asks the little red dot with 36,564 posts under his belt!!

  My reply is: THIS ONE.
• 
  92

  How could you justify that God killed all firstborn children in Egypt?

  by Mr Fool in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  was it necessary for god to kill all innocent firstborn children?

  no other way out for the almighty god?.

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  Terry

  Bible story"morality" is a study in our own character.

  What we are willing to allow and accept and believe says a lot more about our own heart, mind, and justice.

  Do we go along and approve because we are told some high authority (in this case, the God of Israel) approved?

  If so, we've taken the first step down a horror of a holocaust.

  What next?

  Next, we will approve the murder of innocents by those CLAIMING TO REPRESENT GOD.

  Finally, we will be the ones submitting ourselves as instruments of God's"righteous judgment."

  These are the witch-hunters, torture chamber minions, hooded miscreants in the 'service of the church.'

  History is crammed full of excuses for bestial brutality flying the flag of a righteous crusade.

  _______________________

  By refusing to accept Old Testament 'morality,' we take the first step toward a better world where love and compassion

  replace storybook displays of Theocratic testosterone.

  __________________

  We teach tiny children how pretty the rainbow is and how it represents the wonderful promise of Jehovah to

  NOT DROWN LITTLE CHILDREN, THEIR FAMILIES, AND ANY UNBORN SIBLINGS anymore. Just don't piss Him off.
• 
  48

  Jehovah’s Witness elder jailed for 12 years for multiple sexual offences against young girl

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://ukpaedos-exposed.com/2014/11/29/david-dennis-gunnislakeharrowbarrow/.

  david dennis gunnislake/harrowbarrow.

  29 saturday nov 2014. posted by author in cornwall.

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  Terry

  The backstory is where the real story begins.

  When was this first discovered, by who, and was the congregation notified?

  What steps were taken and over what period of time.

  Those are the details which will illuminate the role of the Organization and its polices.

  Thanks Barbara!
• 
  9

  Listen to Raymond Franz in the fascinating interview

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i don't know if many of you have watched this exceedingly in depth interview in which raymond franz expounds so many wonderful.

  subjects with such precision and affection.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ttdozz-chg. .

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  Terry

  I don't know if many of you have watched this exceedingly IN DEPTH interview in which Raymond Franz expounds so many wonderful

  subjects with such precision and affection.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tTDozZ-CHg
• 
  24

  CAN WE SOLVE THE MYSTERY of why Watchtower doctrines changed when they changed?

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if a person gives a police report of a traumatic event, but later changes their facts during cross-examination, these changes are used to impeach the honesty of the witness.. this impeachment flows from a logical understanding facts must match reality without contradiction.. lets examine the history of the watchtower corporations leaders with a view to the harmony of.

  true teaching over a period of years from 1879-1942.. "even though christmas is not the real anniversary of our lord's birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (luke 1:28), nevertheless, since the celebration of our lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date.

  we may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - "christmas day.

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  Terry

  If a person gives a police report of a traumatic event, but later changes their facts during cross-examination, these changes are used to IMPEACH the honesty of the witness.

  This impeachment flows from a logical understanding facts must match reality without contradiction.

  Let’s examine the history of the Watchtower Corporation’s leaders with a view to the harmony of

  “true” teaching over a period of years from 1879-1942.

  _______________________________________

  CELEBRATION OF CHRISTMAS

  "Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but more properly the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting (Luke 1:28), nevertheless, since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment or injunction, but merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - "Christmas day."" Zion's Watch Tower 1904 Dec 1 p.364*

  BETHEL, Christmas 1926 photo containing Watchtower Presidents:

  

  _____________________-_______________________________

  In 1928 celebration of Christmas stopped at Bethel.

  Why? What had happened? What changed? Had any facts shifted?

  "Pardon me for intruding on your precious time, but I just can't help letting you know how much I appreciate the phonograph which came to me on the morning after the 8th, which was my 80th birthday. It was indeed a birthday gift from Jehovah, to be used in proclaiming his name. May grace and strength be given me to do with my might what my hands find to do." Watchtower 1940 Jan 1 p.16

  Note: Birthdays continued to be celebrated until 1951.

  Two facts we cannot overlook.

  1. Jehovah (was / was not) guiding the Society as His mouthpiece.
  2. No facts about pagan origins had ever been unknown. *

  "Is it proper to have or attend celebrations of birthday anniversaries?-F. K., Nevada. Such celebrations have their roots in pagan religions, and not Scriptural grounds. Some Bible commentators suggest that birthday celebrations may have had their origin in the "notion of the immortality of the soul"."Watchtower 1951 Oct 1 p.607 Questions from Readers

  _________________________________________________

  A criminal is aware of his crimes and seeks to avoid discovery by HIDING EVIDENCE.

  The following is a Big, Fat, LIE. It is a COVERUP. Read it carefully.

  January 1, 2000 Watchtower:
  Paragraphs 11-13 state:

  In June 1918, Satan frantically tried to wipe out those Bible students ... He also sought to destroy their legal corporation, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. Responsible officers of the Society were imprisoned ... But in 1919, these officers were released, enabling them to continue their ministry. Later, they were fully exonerated. What did this watchman see? Again, Jehovah's watchman, his witness class, announced: "She has fallen! Babylon has fallen, and all the graven images of her gods he [Jehovah] has broken to the earth!" ... This time, following World War I, it is Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion,that is toppled from its perch of authority... In 1919, Babylon the Great could not prevent the Bible Students, as Jehovah's Witnesses were then known, from escaping from their inactive state and embarking on a worldwide witnessing campaign that still continues... That signaled a fall for Babylon the Great, just as the release of Israel in the sixth century B.C.E. signaled a fall for ancient Babylon.

  For the above to be factual, actually a true statement (by Watchtower standards) the following would occur:

  1. Christmas would no longer be celebrated
  2. Birthdays would no longer be celebrated
  3. The pagan names for days of the week and the months would not be used.

  Nonesuch, any such proof took place!

  ________________________________

  WHAT ARE THE FACTS?

  Starting in 1963, for the first time, the Society (Fred Franz) began teaching that "Babylon the Great" fell in a spiritual sense in 1919. But since the Watch Tower gives the nearly certain impression that the "watchman" announced this in 1919, we can see that the WTS writers are bold liars when they print otherwise. (As they have since 1963).

  _______________________

  ENTER THE DRAGON

  Alexander Hislop had published his peculiar book, The Two Babylons, a whopping 75 years prior to the time the Bible Students suddenly flashed on the truth about Christmas, in which Hislop painstakingly sought to build an argument about the Babylonish character of Christmas.

  Three quarters of a century delay? How embarassing!

  What else did this 1995 Watchtower article identify as New Light channeled through Jehovah's specially"selected channel?"

  “For many years the Bible Students made the cross prominent as a symbol of Christianity. They even had a “cross-and-crown” pin… For decades this symbol also appeared on the cover of the Watch Tower magazine. The book Riches, published by the Society in 1936, made clear that Jesus Christ was executed, not on a cross, but on an upright pole, or stake.”

  Yet, in 1858 Alexander Hislop used the same reasoning and examples to put forward the same conclusions as the "New Light" of 1936 in the Watchtower. Why fail to credit Hislop's jump start on this conclusion? Why claim it as their special revelation?

  WHO WAS ALEXANDER HISLOP?

  Hislop was a pseudo-historian, violently anti-Catholic, writing pre and post Civil War, pulling out-of-context connections from history to support his arguments.

  1. Hislop cherry picked minutia. He strained seeming connections where there weren't any and drew conclusions through false analogies. He drew on similarities and ignored differences.

  2. Hislop partially quoted historical sources, misquoted and often misrepresented his connections by simply distorting the facts. He drew parallels of practices into a false conclusion of cause and effect influences.

  3. Hislop invented out of whole cloth significances which weren't called for and used them to build even greater strained arguments. He used partial information and not entire contexts.

  4. Hislop painted with a broad brush while amassing a mountain of irrelevancies. He employed a scholarly tone of academic neutrality while employing ad hominems to poison the reader's conclusions. He failed to emphasize when his speculations were passed off as fact based.
  Because Hislop wrote in the mid-1800s, the books he refers to or quotes are now quite old: books such as Layards Nineveh and Its Remains, Kittos Cyclopedia of Biblical Literature, Wilkinsons Ancient Egyptians, as well as old editions of Pausanias, Pliny, Tacitus, Herodotus, and many more. When I checked his footnote references, in numerous cases I discovered they do not support his claims.

  The same pattern of dishonesty is evident in other ways. For instance, the same study article says of the cross:

  “For many years the Bible Students made the cross prominent as a symbol of Christianity. They even had a “cross-and-crown” pin… For decades this symbol also appeared on the cover of the Watch Tower magazine. The book Riches, published by the Society in 1936, made clear that Jesus Christ was executed, not on a cross, but on an upright pole, or stake.”

  The Cross and Crown Masonic emblem that used to appear on the cover of the Watch Tower Magazine

  The article goes in to mention that the cross is connected with the false god, Tammuz. However, many years before light flashed up for Jehovah’s Witnesses concerning the cross, Alexander Hislop had already published the cross-Tammuz connection. (See chapter Sign of the Cross) Again, why did it take the Watchtower Society decades to accept the truth? And why do they now pretend to have freshly revealed the truth and give no credit to Alexander Hislop for the valuable contribution he made?

  THE MYSTERY REMAINS!

  What was the REAL (hidden) reason for these changes in Watchtower doctrines?

  It can’t be New Flashes of Light.

  It can’t be that these connections to pagan origin were previously hidden.

  WHAT IS THE CAUSE behind the change?
• 
  1

  WHEN and WHY did the Watchtower leaders suddenly decide . . . ?

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  need i point out the watchtower corporation is run by men over eager to pass off misconceptions, and other dishonest nonsense as truth?.

  not only do they see a snake where there is only a tree root, but they make mountains of theological taboos where there is barely a discernible molehill.. before we get into the depth of our topic, lets look at some innocent origins of everyday things.. christians and jews have been using calendars for centuries to mark the holy days they celebrate to the glory of god.

  but calendars were first developed among the pagans, based on their observation of the motions of the sun, moon and planets (the same origin as astrology!).

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  Terry

  Need I point out the Watchtower Corporation is run by men over eager to pass off misconceptions, and other dishonest nonsense as TRUTH?

  Not only do they see a snake where there is only a tree root, but they make mountains of theological taboos where there is barely a discernible molehill.

  Before we get into the depth of our topic, let’s look at some innocent origins of everyday things.

  Christians and Jews have been using calendars for centuries to mark the holy days they celebrate to the glory of God. But calendars were first developed among the pagans, based on their observation of the motions of the sun, moon and planets (the same origin as astrology!). On both the Julian and Gregorian calendars, the names of most of the months are of pagan origin:

  • January was named for Janus, Roman god of beginnings and doorways;
  • February is named for Februa, a pagan festival of purification;
  • March was named for Mars, god of war;
  • April was possibly named for Aphrodite;
  • May for the goddess Maia;
  • June for Juno, wife of Jupiter and queen of the gods;
  • July for Julius Caesar (the Romans deified their emperors);
  • August for Emperor Augustus (another deified emperor);
  • September through December are simply numbered months.

  The days of the week were named for the seven "planets" in ancient astrology, which were in turn named for pagan gods:

  • Sunday, the day of the Sun
  • Monday, the day of the Moon
  • Tuesday (Martis) for Mars, Germanic languages named it for Tiu, the Teutonic warrior god.
  • Wednesday (Mercurii) for Mercury, Germanic languages preferred the Teutonic god Wotan.
  • Thursday (Jovis) - for Jupiter/Jove, in Germanic tongues for Thor, the Norse thunder god.
  • Friday (Veneris) - for Venus, in Germanic tongues for Frigg, Norse goddess of love.

  • Saturday for Saturn, Roman god of the harvest.
  • ____________________________________________________________

  Here is a question for you:

  Does a Christian commit IDOLATRY by using these “months and days” of Pagan origins?

  Before you trouble yourself with an answer—let me stop you right there!

  My question is purely rhetorical.

  In fact, the query has no basis in serious discourse because it is mindless.

  Seeing snakes where there is but a tree root of history makes a molehill into a mountain.

  People, societies, nations, tribes who lived BEFORE US got here first, didn’t they? (Yes.)

  They had the right to call the months of the year and the days of the week whatever they wanted.

  Consequently, WE ARE FREE to ignore the superstition connected with that naming process.

  We ARE NOT OBLIGATED to swallow their tribal rituals, practices or pagan origins as MEANINGFUL TO US.

  And that is about all there is to it.

  To go beyond that by teaching others they are corrupt, devilish, and rejected by God for simply recycling previously named events WOULD BE NEUROTIC and maniacal.

  Do you agree?

  And yet . . .

  IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS I would like to start a series of topics concerning the obsessions of religious impurity which befell the leaders of the Watchtower Corporation in the 1920’s.

  These neurotic compulsions were passed along to ALL THE MEMBERS worldwide on purpose!

  This mind sickness took root and remains firmly entrenched in Watchtower dogma and theology even today.

  Yes, members can be removed from the congregation if they fail to think like the maniacal leaders!

  ASK YOURSELF THIS QUESTION:

  When and Why did the Watchtower Corporation’s leadership suddenly decide

  To STOP CELEBRATING birthdays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, as well as changing the venerable Cross of Jesus into a pole, tree or stake?

  IF WE FIND THE CAUSE we shall discover the origin of the mental illness which swept this religion into

  Full blown CULT.

  _____________________________

  HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT:

  Make a timeline of core beliefs from 1879 to 1942 to pinpoint when certain changes occurred.

  ________________________________

  "When Jehovah's Witnesses cast aside religious teachings that had pagan roots, they also quit sharing in many customs that were similarly tainted." Jehovah's Witnesses - Proclaimers of God's Kingdomp.198