a striking difference of opinion about gods attitude seems to have existed between the author of 1 timothy and the author of 2 thessalonians.
one thinks that god wants all men to be saved, but the other speaks of god deliberately deluding people in order to condemn them.
both pictures of god cannot be true, so there is a clear contradiction.
Joseph writes:
What would be "effective" is God simply pouring into the minds of these transgressors all of the knowledge necessary for them to love God the way he wants to be loved in order for them to be saved. He can do that, right?Basically that's what I said He was doing by letting someone believe they had drowned.
Bang
i hate all jw's for making my wife upset when they send their commanders (elders) to harass my wife for not going to meetings.
i'd like to say f**k you to all people who have hurt my wife and i and continue to do so.
these f**king c***s continually try to hurt my wife because she won't kiss their asses.
Moving stuff ashitaka,
Weve never been JWs, but an evil thing is done to a loved one of mine everyday because she isn't, so I've glimpsed at how utterly outraged it can make you. Try and make sure she understands that they are not christian, nor do they speak in anyway for God, but rather, are the very ones that cause God anger.
Christ came and befriended all sorts, hung out with publicans, prostitutes, taxcollectors, lepers, and specially cared for sinners and poor, and so on - street people and the common, I suppose. There seems to be only two types that absolutely pissed Him off - the smug and content self-righteous well dressed scripture readers who rested on their own idea of worthy deeds (all the while accusing) - and also those who kept their goods from the poor, though maybe the latter didn't cause quite the outrage.
Nevertheless, the WT society reflect both.
Bang
*** re 44-5 9 holding fast to jesus' name ***.
14 from early days, the christian congregation has had to contend with proud apostates, who by smooth, deceptive speech cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching provided through jehovahs channel.
(romans 16:17, 18).
Sirona,
you wrote
< Is the house to house work scriptural? Is it necessary? >
Do you know how it is that the WT society explained away the advice of, "remain in the same house..... do not go from house to house." ?
I've often wondered.
Bang
one of those phrases that jw's always seem to (amusingly) lower their voices when saying is "the unforgivable sin".
this is defined as, i believe, grieving the holy spirit.. when i was a witness, it was generally assumed that adolf hitler had committed the unforgivable sin.
presumably because he wasn't taken in with the wt's brown-nosing of the nazis.
I don't know the JW view, but my own is that there are various ways in which one may put themselves outside the realm of forgiveness. Someone can achieve this by various methods including defiance (impenitence) and assuming forgiveness ahead of sin (presumption), and despair which is a self-pride, saying that He won't forgive (i.e. He's only like me or not even that), or despair of others by maintaining that He's actually a nastyass bastard that doesn't forgive people like them (a scary beast, not even as kind as me).
Everthing, murder and whatever men say will be forgiven, but in sinning against the Holy Spirit one closes themself off in a state of refusal to accept, and thereby in the continual danger of perishing - no more in that state of grace whereby their failings are forgiven. The way is against Him and not simply against Christ as one may understand He is, but against what is understood to be Good.
Basically, it is within our capability to refuse God as we know Him, but then again if anyone be "in Him", he is a "new creation", the old is gone. It is spirit that matters, not the flesh.
Bang
a striking difference of opinion about gods attitude seems to have existed between the author of 1 timothy and the author of 2 thessalonians.
one thinks that god wants all men to be saved, but the other speaks of god deliberately deluding people in order to condemn them.
both pictures of god cannot be true, so there is a clear contradiction.
Abbadon,
or god does not inform you of wrong doing in a clear and objectively verifiable fashion
Oh, He lets me know. However, He's not going to force me, but He won't give up on me, He'll go the next step. Forcing someone is not how you make friends, but slaves.
SO dinosaur bones were put there to fool me?No. What causes you to agree or disagree with God (and I don't mean the JW god) is your own desire / will and by reading a spiritual story book as an historical fact finding mission, you are simply putting Him to the test to see whether or not you should follow His Way, and then get something for it - the buying and selling business.
If god had let me known what it wantedHe has told you. "I want kindness" and "do the same" as the Samaritan. It's plain and clear - and uncircumventable however hard people try. Look at the mess of 'knowledge' the WT society has developed into, in an extreme effort to seek Him in a book instead.
I'd not have grown up all distorted
Thus if I doubt, sin, and die
I say it's all god's fault
If it is that you were taught about God by WT Bible study, I can understand why your estranged by it.
Did you ever think much about the theives, the one saying "if your the Son of God, save us and yourself", and the other knowing that such an action wasn't actually salvation ?
Bang
is a word equal to the breath?
is the breath equal to the mind?
these are not equal as jesus plainly said, and god is not the nicene trinity but they took the truth and mixed in a pagan corruption of it.
jed,
I'm not saying that God does not have a mind, nor breath, nor speech, just that, that too is seeing things in a physical way.
I think I know what your saying, but my view is slightly different. I understand God as three people in agreement, not just one person with three attributes, though the view of one person with three attributes is very close because neglecting my own understanding I find that to be almost the same.
As with christian marriage, there are three - two people and God. He is not in the position of 'other', as in blessing from afar, but with them in the marriage. And to "let no man rend asunder that which God has joined" includes with Himself.
Imagine speaking to a married christian person who is so perfectly in love and agreement with their partner, and God, that you could in a way be speaking to either of them, just the same, though the person you are speaking to is an 'individual' so to speak; - or imagine speaking to either a father or son who work and live together and are so content with one another, having the same spirit, both together and individually, the spirit being the friend of each, that you could be speaking to either of them, the same things in the same way, or your heart could even converse with the same spirit.
So then, imagine talking to one person of God, who is in perfect love with God, friends of each, yet also an 'individual' person so to speak, with "light in Himself".
Did you know that trinitarians understand God in a manner sort of like that ?
Bang
a striking difference of opinion about gods attitude seems to have existed between the author of 1 timothy and the author of 2 thessalonians.
one thinks that god wants all men to be saved, but the other speaks of god deliberately deluding people in order to condemn them.
both pictures of god cannot be true, so there is a clear contradiction.
Abaddon
< the first time I did something that bugged god, god let me know, in a clear and objectively verifiable fashion >
As He does.
But what if you continually insisted, and you made it your way?
What would be effective then?
Bang
apart from my biblical belief of a resurrection of all ever borned without conditions, the philosophical look on the fall of man, differences in the endtimes and anti legalistic views, i'm jw to people although i'm really a biblestudent.
a guy on another board filled with 'heresy' asked me of a jw interpretation of the lazarus story, maybe some will like this; .
nothing in old testament back up either immortal soul or torment in hell.
RevB
What about 'here to there', same thing?
Bang
a striking difference of opinion about gods attitude seems to have existed between the author of 1 timothy and the author of 2 thessalonians.
one thinks that god wants all men to be saved, but the other speaks of god deliberately deluding people in order to condemn them.
both pictures of god cannot be true, so there is a clear contradiction.
Joseph writes:
< Would it make sense to speak of a man standing on the shore of a lake who effortlessly could save a drowning person, and who wants the person to be saved, but who stands by and lets it happen? >
Yes. If a person was always recklessly doing things that caused them to get into drowning difficulty. You might let them swallow water, experience drowning and become unconscious, later to revive them. They'd think twice about drowning next time. Even so, some people are simple determined to drown, and it's a bit upsetting that. But He's able to bring them back to life, they just don't know it, and why tell them that and cause an even more hardened attitude?
Bang
is a word equal to the breath?
is the breath equal to the mind?
these are not equal as jesus plainly said, and god is not the nicene trinity but they took the truth and mixed in a pagan corruption of it.
jed, you wrote:
< We cannot see this by looking at things in a physical way, like you are you and I am me. >
Though your using the description of God as a person with a mind, speech and breath.
The Trinity agree so completely that they are God, but it's hard to understand such love, such agreement. The Lord says "Let us" in reference to God. They are together and the love they have for each other is perfect.
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father"
'If you see how I am you have also seen how the Father is, so why do you need to see Him instead of me. He's the same as me.'
Bang
