Yea Individuals Wife I put this one on the jokes section about a month ago but it was in two parts and not very good spelling or typing. The original version is A Religious debate between the Pope and Moishe a representive of a jewish community.
Posts by barry
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3A Religious Debate
by barry inabout ten years ago jehovahs witnesses were making many converts in the city of rome.
this was quite disturbing to the pope and the italian authorities.
the witnesses can stay.''.
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A Religious Debate
by barry inabout ten years ago jehovahs witnesses were making many converts in the city of rome.
this was quite disturbing to the pope and the italian authorities.
the witnesses can stay.''.
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barry
About ten years ago Jehovahs Witnesses were making many converts in the city of Rome. This was quite disturbing to the Pope and the Italian authorities. The Pope in consultation with the Italian Government decided all the witnesses would have to leave Rome. This went largly unreported in the press and the Watchtower and the Awake Magizine. Naturally there was a great uproar in the witness community ,so the Pope made a deal. He would have a debate with a member of the witness community . If the witnesses won they could stay, if the Pope the Witnesses would have to leave.
The Witnesses realized they had no choice. So they picked an old man who had been a faithful Witness for many yesars his name Joseph Smith. Joseph had once tried to start his own religion but it had failed as he had a weakness for stealing horses and had been accused and thrown into jail for his crime. Joseph then decided to join the witnesses and had become one of the annointed class. Joseph asked for one condition in the debate. To make it more interesting, neither side would be allowed to talk. The Pope agreed.
The day of the great debate came. Joseph and the Pope sat opposite each other for a full minutebefore the Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers. Joseph looked back at him and raised one finger. The Pope waved his fingers in a circle around his head. Joseph pointed to the ground ehere he sat. The Pope pulled out a wafer and a glass of wine. Joseph pulled out an apple. The Pope stood up and said, ''I give up. This man is too good. The witnesses can stay.''
An hour later, the cardinals were all around the Pope asking what had happened. The Pope said, ''First I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He held up one finger to remind me that there was still one God Jehovah common to both our religions. Then I waved my finger around me to show him that God was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground and showing that Jehovah was also right here with us. I pulled out the wine and the wafer to show that God absolves us from our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of original sin. He had an answer for everything. What could I do?''
Meanwhile, the Witnesses community had crowded around Joseph. ''What happened? they asked. Well,''said Joseph, ''First he said to me that the Witnesses had three days to get out of here. I told him that not one of us was leaving. Then he told me that this whole city would be cleared of Witnesses. I let him know that we were staying right here.''
''Yes,yes...and then???'' asked the crowed.
''I dont know,'' said Joseph, ''He took out his lunch, and I took out mine.'' -
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The 3,000 mark
by ozziepost inhave you noticed?
we're approaching 3,000 registered posters on this board.
when i 'signed up' some 8 months ago there were around 500. so simon has welcomed 2,500 new arrivals during that time.
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barry
The number will soon be 144,000 then the great crowd will be added to that number.
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To KILL or Not to KILL?
by Amazing ina tough question: to kill or not to kill?
this is a very tough question because there can be so many variables, so many views, so many things to consider, so many circumstances, so many beliefs.
do we kill as we do any of this?.
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barry
I know a muslim here in australia who is educated, his attitude to us infidels is that any voilance in the name of Alla is justified. He has lived here in Australia most of his life. I realize the majority of muslims are peacefull from information i have read about recently and would be horrified about recent events just as most christians would not accept the kind of values the IRA has as christian.
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peacable = true religion
by Moxy inplease help me out a bit with this.. jws, as a religion, are taught to live peacably.
they do not go to war nor will they generally support it.. now, if i were to play the role of an apologist, i think i would just keep hamering on this point.
"catholic killing catholic and protestant killing protestant" was such a great phrase and ties in so nicely with johm 13:35. now, let me play devils advocate and hear some rebuttals.
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barry
Im an SDA and a pacifist I would help in a war in a non combattent role only if i had to wear a uniform that wouldnt because in wartime the whole country is geared for war anyhow. In the second world war my grandfather was a beekeeper and the country needed the wax to make ammunition so how can someone exclude themselves from all activities in a country in wartime?
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The mindset of another Religion. The SDA Church
by barry inwhen a minister skied to church, his board of elders accused him of desecrating the sabbath.
''why mom,ye skied on the lord's holy day,'' said one of the elders.
the minister protested; but that was the only way i could have come to services.
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barry
When a minister skied to church, his board of elders accused him of desecrating the Sabbath. ''Why mom,ye skied on the lord's holy day,'' said one of the elders. The minister protested; But that was the only way I could have come to services. The snow was too deep to drive. ''Thats not the p'int,'' The charman shot back at him. ''The p'int is this; Did ye enjoy it?'' Is this realy the mindset in the SDA Church or have I got it wrong. I think Mr Moe would like to know, Any how i'll be back with further postings on the subject.
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Bowen in Christianity Today
by Dogpatch inarticle in latest christianity today:.
http://christianitytoday.aol.com/ct/2001/004/23.html.
http://www.freeminds.org.
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barry
AS in the days of Caiaphas, the truth is crucified that the institution might live.
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The Real origin of the 1914 Doctrine
by barry ini am a baptised seventh day adventist and ive had studies for about 6mths with a very nice jw lady.
ive learnt about the wt teachings and attended the kh and the memorial.
n there are some similarities with the adventist and jw teachings such as baptism by imersion, the state of the dead,some adventists dont vote and some adventists beleive with the wt society in the arian doctrine that jesus is a created being and the holy spirit is a force but the vast majority beleive the trinity doctrine.
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barry
I nearly forgot you Waiting Coledge is ok the church runs many schools coledges and universities.
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The Real origin of the 1914 Doctrine
by barry ini am a baptised seventh day adventist and ive had studies for about 6mths with a very nice jw lady.
ive learnt about the wt teachings and attended the kh and the memorial.
n there are some similarities with the adventist and jw teachings such as baptism by imersion, the state of the dead,some adventists dont vote and some adventists beleive with the wt society in the arian doctrine that jesus is a created being and the holy spirit is a force but the vast majority beleive the trinity doctrine.
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barry
I would like to thank you all for your replies I didn't know how I would be received on this forum but you've all been very kind. Yes Thirdson Prenology and other weird 19th century idears found there way into Adventism. J.T I don't study with the JW lady but we still remain good friends she asked me over to see a video but I haven't been over yet. You had the most questions Hillary-Step you know about the 27 fundamentals. SDAs can differ without any punitive action , but if one is employed by the church as a pastor or conference president and were to teach in a non traditional way there job could be under threat but disfellowshiping would be very unusual. Disfellowshiping is resurved for gross sin such as adultery etc. An SDA Dr of theology was sacked fore his views in the 80s while a current President of the East -Finland SDA conference has completed a doctoral dissertation on the same subject and is in good standing. Dr Ford remains a loyal member of the church. So if an ordinary member or an elder little or nothing would be done but then the christian life is more than just argueing theology. And do they have a spiritual problem , well yes and no, the right would beleive I had a problem and I with the left would beleive the right has a broblem. There is a more interactive bible study at the weekly study where people are allowed to express their views and even sometimes disagree with the company line. Also their is no restriction on attending other churches as in the witnesses. Flip im suprised you picked that one up but the meteor shower in 1833 is a bit old now what do you think? Waiting I was just making a point about the WT position being similar to the gnostic beleif that our Lord didn't have a body of flesh and bones. The WT says this happened after the cross, while the gnostics beleived he never had a real body. the gnostics also beleived that Simon of Cerine was Crusified in place of our lord. Yours in Christ Barry Ford Thinking is as fundamental a duty for a christian as praying
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The Real origin of the 1914 Doctrine
by barry ini am a baptised seventh day adventist and ive had studies for about 6mths with a very nice jw lady.
ive learnt about the wt teachings and attended the kh and the memorial.
n there are some similarities with the adventist and jw teachings such as baptism by imersion, the state of the dead,some adventists dont vote and some adventists beleive with the wt society in the arian doctrine that jesus is a created being and the holy spirit is a force but the vast majority beleive the trinity doctrine.
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barry
I am a baptised Seventh Day Adventist and Ive had studies for about 6mths with a very nice JW lady. Ive learnt about the WT teachings and attended the KH and the memorial. n There are some similarities with the Adventist and JW teachings such as baptism by imersion, the state of the dead,some adventists dont vote and some Adventists beleive with the WT society in the Arian doctrine that Jesus is a created being and the holy spirit is a force but the vast majority beleive the trinity doctrine. Both are hierarchical systems. Also the 1914 doctrine I beleive has its roots in adventism and so a brief history is appropriate to show the connection. In the 19th century a Baptist minister William Miller used Daniel 8-14 '' unto 2300 days then shall the santury be cleansed'' to predict the physical comming of christ when this prophecy failed to occure the prophecy was reinterpreted to be the beginning of the investigative judgement. A judgement that occures before the second comming. I had a book I cant find it to quote to you, but I remember reading about Charles Taze Russell with an adventist group predicted the second comming for 1874, when nothing happened the prophecy was reinterpreted to be a secret comming or parousia and this was again repeted again in 1914. Both the Adventist 1844 doctrine and the WT 1914 doctrine rely on the day year principle. Both in daniel 4 and daniel 8 the word day is not mentioned, and in order for this formula to work the word day must exist. Daniel has evenings and mornings and in Daniel 4 only years are mentioned. Neither is there any rationale or authority to associate the 40 year judgement of Numbers 14 with the prophecy of daniel of Daniel 8 or Daniel 4 to do so is presumptuous and arbitrary. What would we say if today someone randomly selected and connected two unrelated verses of scripture to conceive a new religious claim? One would be extremely naive to accept it without question. The year for a day principle is thought to be valid in Daniel 4 & Daniel 8 because it seems to work in Daniel 9. However no day for is necessary here remember Daniel is thinking about the 70 years Jerusalem is in ruins early in the chapter and then Gabriel explains the messiah will appear 7 times seventy years or 490 years. The Adventist Church by adopting this position and beleiving in an Investigative Judgement in 1844 has taught an uncertain gospel. A persons sins are only provisionally forgiven and then only blotted out in the Investigative Judgement. Adventists have struggled with this teaching for 150 years the church promotes this doctrine even though it has made 50 changes to it, while scolars openly dissagree with the traditional teaching and half the membership dissagree with all or at least part of it. From what I have learnt the WT with its position on the 1914 teaching denies the bodily return of Christ by saying the resurrected Christ didnt have a physical body.This a Ngostic beleif from the 2nd and it was claimed by the Gnostics Our Lord didnt have a body of flesh and bones, because that is Satans realm and only our souls are from God. It is obvious to the writer when these false predictions were made other teachings had to be invented to cover there the first LIE. When will these groups be honest to face the truth. WE would all teach and hope our kids to be more honest than this. Barry Ford Opinions can be wrong but love is never wrong