why are there so many intelligent people in the truth, if its clearly hogwash?
I agree with DY, 'intelligence' come in many forms: emotional, physical, mental and spiritual.
I think being a JW has more to do with ones fears, insecurities, and dependancy on family than anything else. In other words, their emotional intelligence is very low.
Jez
this is a sort of parallel thread to the drunken noah thread.
the genesis account of angels 'materialising' and having sex with women always worried me as a witness.
in all animals, man included, the sex drive is hormonal.
Could an angel get horny when looking at humans humping each other for a 1000 or so yrs? Probably the same way some ppl get horny watching national geographic all day. Somebody get these ppl some porn!
No way - it doesn't make sense. Sex drive is physical, angels are spirit - no hormones = no sex drive
Ok, hold on here. Are we absolutely 100% sure that human sex drive is 100% hormonal? I think that we cannot be so sure of that fact. Just like the question of 'what tells cells to divide or how does a particular cell know it's function or what it is to become'? , science does not have an answer for this, "hormones cause sex drive" too may be humans BEST scientific answer at this time. I certainly do not rule out other factors that give us our sex drive. Don't ask me what, I just don't believe science has all the answers.
Also, if man is made in God's image, that would mean that all human attributes were first, godly. God cannot give man something that he did not himself have......therefore....God must have had some kind of sexual attraction or need to create or whatever you want to call it.
Jez
well my sister and her husband are now working towards figuring out the custody issues and divorce.
both being very civil about it.
my sister will most likely be disfellowshipped as she is with another man (a very nice british guy, actually).. .
She has not even called me and I do not get it.I intend to keep trying with her, to help her, and always be there for her, no matter what.
This is so strange. I feel like I am going through the exact same thing with my sister. I am sooo angry because for MONTHS she used me as a sounding board for every problem in their marriage, I listened, offered advice, acted 'sisterly'. Then when she finally goes overboard and is playing the field as if she has a right to, she cuts me out, why? because I told her how selfish I thought she was being and I did not hold back from telling her about her past relationships, why she has gotten into them and why she is moving on AGAIN. She doesn't want to hear it. She prefers to live in her own little fantasy world where everything will turn out ok, "if it was meant to be" kinda crap.
I feel used, I feel like she is a watered down version of my mother. Use you when THEY need you. Where was she, is she, when I need her? I just feel like this relationship is soooo one-sided now, and I am very very sad about it. Nope, she tucks her head down and runs in whatever direction she wants.
Now, I wish I never even got involved, but then a side of me says, that is not right either because sisters are there for each other. We should be able to be lovingly honest but then agree to disagree. I don't get it anymore. That is why I love my sisterinlaw so much, this is never what it is like with us. We say anything to each other and either accept it or disagree, there is an openness that I have never experienced in another woman.
Your last comment that I copied above, how do you do it? I feel like now, I don't WANT to be friends with someone that does things like that, but I miss the THOUGHT of a sister, more than I do my actual sister. Do you know what I mean???
Jez
well my sister and her husband are now working towards figuring out the custody issues and divorce.
both being very civil about it.
my sister will most likely be disfellowshipped as she is with another man (a very nice british guy, actually).. .
Indeed, she has been going through a horrible depression and thinking about suicide.
Ok, I have been thinking more and more about this thread. I have to ask something because I am SO angry at my own sister (df'ed for years) right now because she is in the middle of leaving her commonlaw husband of 7 years, they have 2 kids (4 and 2 years old). Her reason? He does not communicate enough, he and I have nothing in common anymore, he is always grouchy, well, to me....basically lame ideas. NOW, she claims that she is depressed, etc, thing is....she is seeing someone else. Her husband knows about it and is fighting it all he can. He is going to counselling, writing her letters constantly, journaling, in other words, he is trying to improve himself as a person. Now that he is giving her everything that she claims to have 'needed' all these years, she won't have none of it.
Why? because some other guy is involved!!! This CAN"T give them as a couple a proper chance. She rubs his nose in it by laying in bed and talking to this other guy on her cell phone, she stops by daily to 'say goodnight' to him.
I am very angry at her behaviour and I don't know how to reconcile this in my head. To me, she is not well, she has had 4 long relationships fail, she has piggybacked each one with another man, and seeks admiration from outside herself.
Given your sisters 'depression and suicidal thoughts' do you SAY anything to her about going right from one guy to another or do you just mind your own business and accept anything, even if you disagree with it?
Jez
well my sister and her husband are now working towards figuring out the custody issues and divorce.
both being very civil about it.
my sister will most likely be disfellowshipped as she is with another man (a very nice british guy, actually).. .
It made my mom happy to know that I am helping out my sister though. It seems for some strange reason, I am getting on my families good side again. Even my brother-in-law. Such a very odd, intense, stressfull month!
This makes me sad. They can't accept you for who you are, BUT as soon as you show any little tiny hint of GOING BACK TO MEETINGS (like it is a cure all), you are getting on their good side again. Even if it is for your sister, they no doubt see it as a chance to get both of you back in again.
I use to be torn about how much of myself to give to family, but now I have personally come to the conclusion that I will not sacrifice my beliefs, values or sense of self anymore, even for family. At least you are not pretending to 'for real' go back.
Only you know what is best for you. I, for one, just could not give over to them anymore.
Love Jez
hey guys,.
ff had her jc today.
i was all ready with quotes from the "pay attention" book and reasoning to show they should let me sit in on it, but they didn't even object.
I am so glad that you went to the meeting. If only we could all use and apply the saying, NO FEAR.
It is amazing how gaining only a little bit of knowledge about what JW are really about really does crumble everything they say.
I grew up thinking that the elders had answers for everything and were sooo wise. It shows how sheltered we were. With my elder meeting, they sounded silly, uneducated and weak. It is only because I had gained a new understanding and awareness of them. I am so thankful I met with them and very thankful that you met with them as well.
Well balanced discussion! Jez
what was it that was the real eye opener for you?.
for me, it was after watching the video, "jehovah's witnesses; a non-prophet organization," and the point on how the org puts itself in a place between jesus and mankind.
a position which does not exist scripturally.
The story of my life at freeminds.org (womens section) is called "Pretending" because that is what I did, my whole life. Looking back, I now believe that I never really believed, if I did, I would not have done 1/2 the things I did. I was in constant turmoil and conflict between what I was told was 'right' and what I felt was 'normal'. Finding JWD just confirmed everything and gave me the necessary facts to support my feelings.
Teenager life as a JW="how to get away with 'wrongdoing'"ie. boyfriends, drinking, swearing, going to school dances, seeing JW friends very hypocritical and doing the exact same thing, how to get out of meeting attendance and service.
17 year old teenager="how to survive marriage at 17" Had sex before marriage, felt that to right it in Jehovah's eyes, I HAD to marry him. Biggest mistake of my life. Physical abuse for the next 14 years. BUT cannot leave! MUST maintain the front at all costs. Divorce is not an option.
Children come along= "how to teach them things I don't believe in" My heart breaking when everyone else got valentine day card except them, embarressed for them, hating not giving them xmas presents, telling them to stand for O Canada, knowing I was not suppose to do that, hiding in my house on Halloween. Meeting other parents and their 'worldy' children and realizing that I am not any better than them or more deserving of life. Looking at their children and thinking OMG THEY are suppose to DIE?!?! This is one of the first times that I really really starting thinking and not just feeling that JW were wrong.
Age 30= "how to leave a JW abusive man" CANT do it. Even though the elders had a confession at a JC meeting from my ex, they did not df him. I was shocked, I truly believed that they would rally around ME. Not once did they, they wanted all forgiven and forgotten. Well, I did it anyways depite being told NOT to, to stay, one elder saying that "many of our sisters survive through alcoholic husbands" I thought, you idiot, I will never speak to you men about this again, from now on, my decision. I left, I met someone else, fell in love, remarried. After not seeing elders for months, they quickly sought me out and df'ed me.
I still claimed that I would get reinstated at that time, still thought it might be the truth. Things that changed my mind significantly were:
*My sisterinlaw's begging plea for me to get reinstated, not because she believes it is the truth and my eternal salvation is on the line, rather so that she does not get in trouble and it makes it 'easier' on her to associate with me.
*This site opened my eyes to SO MUCH, not just to doctrinal/teaching wrongs, but to THINK for myself. THINK, reason and ask, DOES it make sense? Only through this site did I learn not to blindly accept, rather to question everything.
*Last but not least, one of the final nails in the WBTS coffin for me was my recent elders meeting. They were in the last chance saloon, and they pathetically failed.
Love to all Jez
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fantastic special effects!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
i actually screamed and jumped out of my chair at the special effects...i was so impressed and shocked that i could be that surprised by the movie industry.. loved this movie.
FANTASTIC special effects!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I actually screamed and jumped OUT of my chair at the special effects...I was so impressed and shocked that I could be THAT surprised by the movie industry.
LOVED this movie.
i dont know how i came across this forum but when i came to it i was so shocked of all the things being mentioned about the org.
i became doubtful of the recent decision i had made ( the big dip, which i kinda felt pressure to do but that's another story) also hearing about how jw are a cult really opened my interest.
so now that im openly informed ,im out in search of the truth behind the truth.
hearing about how Jw are a cult really opened my interest
Just curious: Where did you hear that?
my mom has lost her zeal.
she has understood that the "brothers" are nothing special.
they are mere men.
Isn't it great. We don't have to do much to prove that JW do not have 'the truth', that they are not the 'true religion'. They are doing it themselves quite well.
Enjoying watching them topple their own house. Jez
