Tec - you still try and enforce your view that even an atheist with love was incapable of achieving that without Christ breaking in and graffiti style scrawling on their heart. I can assure you that Christ does not come anywhere near my psyche these days except as an object of myth who has been firmly booted out. The very concept of Christ leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. Yet still I love, experience awe, cry at moving things, ache for the underprivileged and helpless, joy in the company of friends and family ; all things that once erroneously, I thought manifestations of gods character manifest through my life.
Posts by Qcmbr
-
91Your God asks for too much
by Qcmbr ini was wondering (again) about what i got out of my deal with mormon god.
the more i thought about it the more i realised that the xian god asks way too much and offers too little.. what does xg demand:.
1 - obedience to changeable often arbitrary commandments normally with little clarification of when and when not to apply them.
-
-
-
91
Your God asks for too much
by Qcmbr ini was wondering (again) about what i got out of my deal with mormon god.
the more i thought about it the more i realised that the xian god asks way too much and offers too little.. what does xg demand:.
1 - obedience to changeable often arbitrary commandments normally with little clarification of when and when not to apply them.
-
-
Qcmbr
CJ - there is nothing new under the sun and a sucker is born every minute. Maybe no change in a couple of years but maybe we will in 5 years.
These discussions and debates are quite strong here and elsewhere on the net because with anonymity and global trade in ideas mankind has finally got the chance to overcome religion and faith. The rising generation will look back on this war and wonder why anyone would fall for dusty old myths. Just like smoking we have the tools and means to understand why it is harmful and so we can start to alter our behaviour away from it. We are in the middle of a seismic social change away from myth based worldviews to science based ones. This very moment will be talked of in social text books and history lessons just as the Renaissance is. IMO.
-
140
Please worship our god or he will kill you!
by snare&racket inwhy were we so suprised people did not join in droves!
what an awful message we shared......
-
-
Qcmbr
For a long time belief in god has allowed the religious to create categories that do not exist in reality. Those who think a divine being is the source of love are able to downgrade those without such a belief as incapable of true love, true knowledge, true morality or some other such absolute.
What faith allows is the ability to role play. Faith makes up an imaginary world of goodies and baddies, blessings and curses, heavens and hells, vast cosmic battles, secret knowledge, incantations, magic rituals, telepathy, hope and all encompassing eternal story arcs. Faith is Harry Potter for the pious, a pretend hidden world under the surface of reality where believers secretly ache for the day they can reveal their true magic powers and move these muggles off their divine territory.
Faith in a god has a fundamental aim of power, it was born from human prehistory when war was fought with spear and shaman and victory was a divine sign. The whole xian concept of a war in heaven, eternal punishment for those who do not submit to god, glorious rewards for those who prove themselves worthy is all a power game. No one would be a xian if they were not motivated by the reward or the punishment. No eternal punishment, no righteous reward, no belief. That they feel their secret world game makes them better ( blessed / whole / healed / cleansed / forgiven) than those who can't play(sinners), refuse to play ( atheists) or make fun of them for playing (mockers) reveals the true nature of what faith is about. Love? Of course not its ALL about convincing oneself that they are better after all they shall 'inherit the earth.'
-
91
Your God asks for too much
by Qcmbr ini was wondering (again) about what i got out of my deal with mormon god.
the more i thought about it the more i realised that the xian god asks way too much and offers too little.. what does xg demand:.
1 - obedience to changeable often arbitrary commandments normally with little clarification of when and when not to apply them.
-
-
Qcmbr
Now this is what I 'worship'; magnificent human endeavour, style, imagination , creation , art, sport and youthful craziness with the enablement of science , modern media and humour. Mankind is greater than any god, no contest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45YyPTgCtJs&feature=youtube_gdata_player
-
91
Your God asks for too much
by Qcmbr ini was wondering (again) about what i got out of my deal with mormon god.
the more i thought about it the more i realised that the xian god asks way too much and offers too little.. what does xg demand:.
1 - obedience to changeable often arbitrary commandments normally with little clarification of when and when not to apply them.
-
-
Qcmbr
Tec- the only thing of substance I ever seem to hear from you is that love is the only trait of your god. You claim the ten commandments but dismiss them in the next sentence with a wave of the magic love wand. You even reject foundational biblical rules as merely misundstandings ( circumcision was a misunderstanding by a prophet who supposedly had one to one chats with god - oh come on Tec you must have some more logical and sound foundation than that ) and that this super loving god was so gallopingly obscure and incapable of regular clear communication that an entire nation blithely hacked of foreskins in acts of loving devotion to this god. You arrogantly write off the experience and downgrade the devotional love of ALL religious people while sitting in your warm , safe house devoid of any immediate great needs beyond which biscuit to eat next and what revelation on the consequences of accidental death by fire to have and this qualifies you to say you have "LOVE" and everyone else merely had religion. Your reasoning describes no god who deserves worship, who prescribes no means, guides, commandments , standards or medium by which to aim for self improvement that is superior to existing human guidelines ( and is less justified and much more philosophically immature) and seems such a confusing hodge pudge of thought that it looks as though you make up answers on the spot. A god who relies on a mantra - x is not my god, x is a misunderstanding, my god is <love|tree|light|truth|magic rainbow farts> - but has nothing to back that up is a feeble god with no power.
I appreciate the responses , thought this thread had died.
Returning to the bible Jesus I think there are further accusations of setting the bar too high for far too little reward.
1 - by what right does a god of love set up a mortal test , stack the odds against all the players, ( the vast majority never even get the rules explained to them if we take the bible as the game rules) , specifies those rules in a foreign language edition such that by the time it's been translated ( a job handed over to an era of myth and believing, knowledge lite, bunch of pious fraudsters incapable of fact checking the premises) it has an unending set of possible interpretations and no clear explanation of what authority is to be used to arbitrate between them?
2 - by what right does a god of love damn mankind, deny them access to their home unless they bow the knee and worship, instil a dictatorial leader whom we have no choice over whose recorded views on slavery, women's rights, cursing, economics, food laws, medical science, physics, ways to learn and social relations are at best ineffective and at worst disgusting and vile?
3 - what god would construct life as no more than a test , this brief mortality is no more than that, then an eternity of experiencing the consequences of a mortal life lived mainly by the dictates of self preservation, inborn genetic traits and nurture over which little control is available? To even suggest that such a place as hell exists , specifically crafted and designed, as an eternal, unending punishment is so horrific a concept that it makes Hitler look like a slightly mischievous kid.
Why oh why do people even want this being or spend even a moment contemplating worship and slavery to this concept? What a terrible drag on society and a mental chain on individuals minds this idea was, is and will continue to be unless skepticism and atheism continue the rout of myth and magic in the rising generation.
-
91
Your God asks for too much
by Qcmbr ini was wondering (again) about what i got out of my deal with mormon god.
the more i thought about it the more i realised that the xian god asks way too much and offers too little.. what does xg demand:.
1 - obedience to changeable often arbitrary commandments normally with little clarification of when and when not to apply them.
-
-
Qcmbr
So tec - your God did not die in a blood sacrifice? Your God has no rules or commandments to keep? Your God only asks for the basic social skills that can be achieved without God (I love, forgive, have mercy etc.) Your God saves all people even if only one is faithful (so how far down the ancestral line does this go before it runs out and people start getting eternally punished/ejected from heaven? Your God has never given any commandments via the bible (like penis mutilation) and then changed those commandments? Your God is not responsible nor interested in the ten commandments? Your God asks for no commitment (sacrifice) now for an eternal reward? All sins are paid for immediately now on earth (so your God did not atone for anything and Christs death was just a bad thing that didn't need to happen for human salvation?)
Who the frak is your God - seems like he asks for nothing, promises nothing, cares about nothing and wants to take credit for what the majority of humans do naturally? Please correct as I'm sure you will but note how your initial answer is:
1 - not the xian god nor the god of the bible (and even you must admit that.)
2 - seemingly a god who refutes all need to believe in him (if there are no commandments, no punishments after this life and no rewards then what is there?)
-
91
Your God asks for too much
by Qcmbr ini was wondering (again) about what i got out of my deal with mormon god.
the more i thought about it the more i realised that the xian god asks way too much and offers too little.. what does xg demand:.
1 - obedience to changeable often arbitrary commandments normally with little clarification of when and when not to apply them.
-
-
Qcmbr
I was wondering (again) about what I got out of my deal with mormon god. The more I thought about it the more I realised that the xian god asks way too much and offers too little.
What does XG demand:
1 - Obedience to changeable often arbitrary commandments normally with little clarification of when and when not to apply them. Bible Jesus did not help claiming that all laws had to be fulfilled but then happily broke them when it suited.
2 - Give up human knowledge and replace with faith based divine knowledge that cannot be questioned (God does not have a library look up service - voice hearers regardless - they rarely agree on anything). Become as a child. Be humble.
3 - Live life now in anticipation of a future reward (i.e. sacrifice) while being bound to the contract without your ability to accept or reject (rejection merely applies the penalty clause as much as believing and failing does.)
4 - Accept his sole rulership without question including voluntary eternal slavery and aquiescence to a blood sacrifice for sins committed by virtue of a body and nature designed to sin, given minimal and obscure information and culpability even in ignorance.
What does he offer:
1 - No hell
2 - Eternal worshipful servitude.
3 - Seperation of humans so that sinners (family, friends, ancestors) get removed from the prescence of forgiven people. Eternity to remember those lost.
4 - No opportunity to pay for ones own mistakes or to learn from them outside of mortality.
No XG asks for way too much, is a tyrant and is responsible for all evil if he wants to pretend to be responsible for all good. I will not give up my rational mind into foolish slavery and start to pretend to hear inner voices in anticipation of eternal slavery in a magic land.
-
33
Blood Transfusion Increases Mortality in Heart Attacks
by Earnest ini understand that the objection to blood transfusions by jehovah's witnesses is purely a scriptural one.
whether or not there are medical benefits to avoiding blood transfusions is, or should be, irrelevant.
however, for those who are not convinced by jw understanding of the scriptures in this regard, and those who don't believe either in the bible and/or in god, the fact that blood transfusion is associated with increased mortality in heart attacks may be of interest.. a systematic search of studies published between january 1, 1966, and march 31, 2012, was conducted using medline, embase, cinahl, scopus, web of science, and cochrane central register of controlled trials databases.
-
-
Qcmbr
I'd be interested in the basis of these figures but if they are true, then wow.
http://www.scienceheroes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=258&Itemid=27
Over 1 Billion Scientist Lives Saved 1 Fritz Haber
(Synthetic Fertilizer)2,720,000,000 2 Carl Bosch
(Synthetic Fertilizer)2,720,000,000 3 Karl Landsteiner
(Blood Groups)1,094,000,000 4 Richard Lewisohn
(Blood Transfusions)1,094,000,000 Over 100 Million Scientist Lives Saved 5 Edward Jenner
(Vaccination - Smallpox)530,000,000 6 Norman Borlaug
(Green Revolution - Wheat)259,000,000 7 Linn Enslow
(Chlorination of Water)177,000,000 8 Abel Wolman
(Chlorination of Water)177,000,000 9 William Foege
(Vaccination Method - Smallpox Eradication)131 ,000,000 10 Leslie Collier
(Freeze-dried Vaccine - Smallpox Eradication )131, 000,000 11 Benjamin Rubin
(Bifurcated Needle - Smallpox Eradication )131 ,000,000 12 Aaron Ismach
(Jet Injector Gun - Smallpox Eradication )131 ,000,000 13 John Enders
(Polio & Measles Vaccine)120 ,000,000 14 Maurice Hilleman
(Measles Vaccine)118 ,000,000 15 Ann Holloway
(Measles Vaccine)118 ,000,000 16 Samuel Katz
(Measles Vaccine)118 ,000,000 17 Kevin McCarthy
(Measles Vaccine)118 ,000,000 18 Milan Milovanovic
(Measles Vaccine)118 ,000,000 19 Anna Mitus
(Measles Vaccine)118, 000,000 20 Thomas Peebles
(Measles Vaccine)118 ,000,000 Over 50 Million Scientist Lives Saved 21 Howard Florey
(Penicillin Drug)82 ,000,000 22 Ernst Chain
(Penicillin Drug)82 ,000,000 23 Norman Heatley
(Penicillin Drug)82 ,000,000 24 Alexander Fleming
(Penicillin Mold)82 ,000,000 25 Gaston Ramon
(Diphtheria and Tetanus Vaccine)60,000,000 26 David Nalin
(Oral Rehydration Therapy)54,000 ,000 27 Richard Cash
(Oral Rehydration Therapy)54,000 ,000 28 Norbert Hirschhorn
(Oral Rehydration Therapy)54,000 ,000 29 Robert Phillips
(Oral Rehydration Therapy)54,000 ,000 30 David Sachar
(Oral Rehydration Therapy)54,000 ,000 31 Christian Zoeller
(Tetanus Vaccine)52,000,000 Over 15 Million Scientist Lives Saved 32 Paul Ehrlich
(Diphtheria and Tetanus Antitoxin )42 ,000,000 33 Shibasaburo Kitasato
(Diphtheria and Tetanus Antitoxin )42 ,000,000 34 Emil von Behring
(Diphtheria and Tetanus Antitoxin )42 ,000,000 35 Paul Muller
(DDT)21 ,200,000 36 Frederick Banting
(Insulin)16,400 ,000 37 Charles Best
(Insulin)16 ,400,000 38 John Macleod
(Insulin)16 ,400,000 39 James "Bert" Collip
(Insulin)16 ,400,000 Over 5 Million Scientist Lives Saved 40 Andreas Gruentzig
(Angioplasty)15,400,000 41 Pearl Kendrick
(Whooping Cough Vaccine)13,700,000 42 Grace Eldering
(Whooping Cough Vaccine )13,700,000 43 Belding Scribner
(Scribner Shunt)8,595,000 44 Willem Kolff
(Kidney Dialysis)8,595,000 45 Wilson Greatbatch
(Pacemaker)8,305,000 46 Karel Styblo
(TB & AIDS Treatment)7 ,370,000 47 Alfred Sommer
(Vitamin A Therapy)7,124 ,000 48 Baruch Blumberg
(Hepatitis B Vaccine)6,335,000 49 Irving Millman
(Hepatitis B Vaccine)6,335,000 50 Kenneth Murray
(Hepatitis B Vaccine)6,335,000 51 Georgios Papanikolou
(Cervical Cancer Screening)6,307,000 52 Aurel Babes
(Cervical Cancer Screening)6,307,000 53 Herbert Traut
(Cervical Cancer Screening)6,307,000 54 Akira Endo
(Statin Drugs)5,868,000 55 Gertrude Elion
(Rational Drug Design)5,438,000 56 George Hitchings
(Rational Drug Design)5,438,000 Over 1 Million Scientist Lives Saved 57 James Elam
(CPR)4,760,000 58 James Jude
(CPR)4,760,000 59 G. Guy Knickerbocker
(CPR)4,760,000 60 William Kouwenhoven
(CPR)4,760,000 61 Peter Safar
(CPR)4,760,000 62 James Black
(Beta Blockers)3,350,000 63 Vasilii Kolesov
(Bypass Surgery)2,610,000 64 Vladimir Demikhov
(Bypass Surgery)2,610,000 65 Luc Montagnier
(HIV Blood Test)2 ,370,000 66 Françoise Barré-Sinoussi
(Isolated AIDS Virus)2,370,000 67 Bernard Belleau
(New AIDS Drug)2,370,000 68 Gervais Dionne
(New AIDS Drug)2,370,000 69 Francesco Bellini
(New AIDS Drug)2,370,000 70 Nghe Nguyen-Ga
(New AIDS Drug)2,370,000 71 Andre Briend
(Plumpy'nut to Fight Malnutrition)2,320,000 72 Stafford Warren
(Mammogram)1,670,000 73 Jacob Gershon-Cohen
(Mammogram)1,670,000 74 Raul Leborgne
(Mammogram)1,670,000 75 Charles Gros
(Mammogram)1,670,000 76 Walter Vogel
(Mammogram)1,670,000 77 Albert Salomon
(Mammogram)1,670,000 78 Nils Bohlin
(Improved Seatbelt)1,330,000 79 Lawrence Craven
(Aspirin Therapy for Heart Disease)1,130,000 80 Paul Gibson
(Aspirin Therapy for Heart Disease)1,130,000 81 Charles Hennekens
(Aspirin Therapy for Heart Disease)1,130,000 82 Thomas Francis, Jr.
(Flu Vaccine)1,010,000 83 Jonas Salk
(Polio Vaccine)1,010,000 84 Albert Sabin
(Polio Vaccine)1,010,000 85 Frederick Robbins
(Polio Vaccine)1,000,000 86 Thomas Weller
(Polio Vaccine)1,010,000 Over 500 Thousand Scientist Lives Saved 87 Mary Ellen Avery (Infant Surfactant Therapy) 840,000 88 John Clements
( Infant Surfactant Therapy)840,000 89 Tetsuro Fujiwara
( Infant Surfactant Therapy)840,000 90 Ancel Keys
(Linked Cholesterol & Diet)820,000 91 Porter Anderson
(Hib Vaccine)660,000 92 David Smith (Hib Vaccine) 660,000 93 John Robbins (Hib Vaccine) 660,000 94 Rachel Schneerson (Hib Vaccine) 660,000 95 Alexander Wiener
(Rh Blood Factor & Infant Exchange Transfusion)520,000 96 Ronald Finn
(Haemolytic Disease)520,000 Over 50 Thousand Scientist Lives Saved 97 Max Theiler
(Yellow Fever Vaccine)300,000 98 Samuel Kountz
(Kidney Transplants)227,000 99 Alfred Blalock
(Blue Baby Syndrome Surgery)169,000 100 Vivien Thomas
(Blue Baby Syndrome Surgery)169,000 101 Brian Druker
(Leukemia Drug Gleevec)153,000 102 Nicholas Lydon
(Leukemia Drug Gleevec)153,000 103 Henry Heimlich
(Heimlich Maneuver)50,000 104 Patrick, Edward
(Heimlich Maneuver)50,000 Over 10 Thousand 105 Charles Sawyers
(Leukemia Drug Sprycel)11,000 -
55
Two Witnesses stuck in a elevator or car without Chaperon. Would they fornicate? Yes/No
by Witness 007 inim amazed how going witnessing sisters who knew me for decades would sit only in the back seat on the way to the hall...to avoid any sex at the traffic lights!!!
and chaperons 1840's style are needed because two witnesses alone for 10 minutes would go at it like animals even after all the training watchtower articles and talks being jahs clean org.
and all..
-
-
Qcmbr
Of course they would. I'm fornicating now just reading it.
-
9
Mormon Apologist is suffering faith crisis - his comments are so true
by Qcmbr inthis is taken from another site.
kerry shirts has long been a staunch mormon apologist.
it seems he no longer is:.
-
-
Qcmbr
I think that truth itself is the issue. Faith based belief is so desperate to validate itself as true that it abuses what truth is. You often see it from posters making a religious assertion when they claim something as the 'TRUTH' - trying to state a rigid absolute knowledge marker - when what they are actually saying is 'this is what I perceive to be true'. I can understand someone wearing blue glasses declaring that to them the world is blue because it really is for them. Declaring that the world's perceived blueness is the absolute 'TRUTH' and that anyone, especially those no longer wearing blue glasses, to be suffering faulty vision if they don't see it is the fundamental weakness. I don't doubt that some of our more consistent voice hearers or messiahs really do see/hear/perceive reality as described. Heck some may indeed swear blind they are being visited by yak haired ,leprous gargoyles with special messages for an ancient tribe represented oddly enough here on this forum and to them they may well see, hear and converse with such a being. It's not true in an objective sense but subjectively may well be.
What we lack in our schooling and culture is proper training in skepticism, especially self skepticism and the ability to weight evidences derived from perception. If we start with an assumption based in myth or magic and then practice that assumption for long enough we start to only see or give credence to evidence that matches our desired view. Scienctific enquiry can start in a similar way (someone passionately believes they have an explanation for some phenomenon) but it has inbuilt checks like constructing tests, recording results, peer review, analytical procedures and so forth.
Sadly it takes a crisis ( accumulated over many years of niggles or a full blown slap in the face) to finally admit that we can sometimes simply be mistaken. Loud assertions by vocal preachers are no substitute for methodical scientific scrutiny.