There should come a point where we put aside childish fantasies about gods turning people into salt and raining fire down on evil cities. This is not reality, it never happened, it was ancient Harry Potter. We make fools of ourselves to argue for the veracity of tribal fables.
Posts by Qcmbr
-
340Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
-
-
-
-
-
Qcmbr
Yes - I do immensely respect someone who believes, allows that belief to enrich their life but is acutely aware that it is simply a belief. There is something inspiring in standing for something when you know you don't have a full picture or you are faced with the uncertainty of the outcome. The believers who slip into certainty mode or who turn their lack of knowledge into a more certain belief (doubling down when their belief is shown to be empty) are where I start to despair at faith. Someone willing to stand up without full information and put forward an idea is exciting IF they are self aware enough to doubt and brave enough to modify their idea when presented with new info.
Not particularly directed only at BAs!
-
340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
-
-
Qcmbr
Interesting Band. Yes, it is difficult to succinctly make a point without the use of generalisations or direct statements shorn of diplomacy. I suspect that quite often we (I) dash off statements while multi tasking that don't read well. I do find that things have quietened down overall - it used to be a complete warzone!
-
340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
-
-
Qcmbr
Band - are we disagreeing ?
-
340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
-
-
Qcmbr
Spot on Cofty.
What is the point in faith and treating it as a divine virtue if it is simply a synonym for empirical knowledge? Tec needs to stop using her inner language and definitions in public and then blaming us for not understanding.
Faith is to believe despite or in the absence of evidence, it was not faith that drove biblical Thomas to check the wounds of Christ in the story. In fact faith is just a first principle of Christianity, its meant to be a motivating factor driving towards a state of knowledge , its not supposed to be the goal in and of itself except in keeping an enquiring mind. In many ways we could claim that christian faith shares characteristics with intuitive curisoity, they both give an initial framework to test and a desire to perform the test. Faith may lead someone to pray and if they believe they have received an answer then that answer and the resultant information change are not faith but the fruits of faith.
Christianity promotes the concept that faith should preceed the reward. Faith is thus required of a believer. It does not state that knowledge, evidence, hearing, tasting, feeling or experiencing are initially required but simply an acceptance, a humility and a childlike trust in the good news. This total reliance on Christ is one of the hallmarks of christianity and Tec seems to have bypassed this in her rush to prophetess status.
-
340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
-
-
Qcmbr
Christian concepts of justice are immoral . They introduce the concept of an intermediary willing to pay the price of the transgressor simply by magically removing the payment cost. The intermediary pays the price by simply removing the debt but never paying for it. If i get punched in the nose by a xian they can obtain forgivenesness by a magic ritual ( prayer and or confessional plus potential ritualistic penance) non of which actually renders me, the victim, any justice but implies that instead I simply suck up the pain and render mercy. Very evil system that requires a human sacrifice to make it all 'work'. yuckyuckyuck.
-
139
Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
by rawe inhas anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?
what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.
if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.
-
-
Qcmbr
All of these have been competently addressed countless times
...by Mormon apologists lol. Cold Steel - you do your homework from sources not related to FARMS! Trust me it will open your eyes - if you can see past the filters you have.
for interest please address the point that Joseph was a money digger prior to the visions and book of mormon story. Was this a fraudulent activity (looking in a hat at a seerstone, at certain astrological times of the year , telling people how to stand, when to talk, what way to dig in order not to disturb the spirit guarding the treasure that had been buried and 'cursed' so that it was 'slippery')? If this does not raise alarm bells then Cold Steel you have descended into the ridiculous. Joseph was a money digger and a seer way before he had any vision and this was attested by those who employed him. It is a little convenient that he actually then 'finds' some ancient artefacts, in a box, guarded by a spirit, that makes him ritualistically retrieve the contents (shocking him , as per money digging lore, when he tries to get them the wrong way) and then gets him to translate some metal plates (NOT gold - too heavy to run through the woods with!) using a seerstone in a hat (why bother with the plates at all!)
Stop and think. How likely is it that God would create a book like the Book of Mormon, replete with checkable factual flaws (windows, silk, wheels, elephants and so on), have someone translate it using magical techniques (head in a hat, seerstone, magic glasses in spectacles) , allow them to try and sell the copyright, allow someone to steal 1/6 of it so loosing that portion completely - just to teach one guy a lesson? When do your BS filters go off? Please, please take a reality check, go outside, look at the real world and shake away the cobwebs of magic thinking.
The supposed translation lifts heavily from the King James Bible (including real scholarly errors and also doctrinal points he later 'corrects' by inspiration!) and also from this book - http://archive.org/stream/firstbooknapole00gruagoog#page/n17/mode/2up and this one - http://archive.org/stream/latewarbetweenun00inhunt#page/n13/mode/2up.
-
139
Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
by rawe inhas anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?
what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.
if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.
-
-
Qcmbr
Cold Steel - no idea what your idea of a con man was: Joseph, started pretending to see buried treasure to get money out of gullible locals at a very young age (prior to his 'vision'),he wrote a book and tried to sell the copyright to make cash, started a bank and pretended it was backed by more silver than it really was (unsurprisingly it folded), had affairs with multiple women, some married and at least one with a 16 year old , adopted daughter and was shown many times to have no concept of transaltion (Egyptian alphabet, Greek psalter incident and the farcical Book of Abraham.)
Oh and btw the church doesn't agree with your robust defence of the dna issue. They've already modified the BoM to reduce its obvious error that the Nephites and Lamanites were the ancestors of the American Indians.
-
21
A Religion of Assumptions
by Cold Steel inthe jehovah's witnesses are a strange cultural phenomenon and one that has always puzzled me.
members call it "the truth" and, more boldly, "jehovah's organization.
" but many of those on the outside remain dumbfounded.
-
-
Qcmbr
Sorry Rawe I was never a JW, I came here out of fascination for JWs , I started to push Mormonism , got my ass handed to me , independently had a crisis of faith and examination of my faiths claims, I used this forum as a way to explore my own doubts and questions without hitting emotional blockers and now I'm an ex -Mormon. What this site did was reveal how similar the religions were in essence , how the members used the same thinking style to remain within the faith, how each had an inner language with words used in certain ways (all variations on this is the 'TRUTH') and how exiting members shared the same emotional turmoil, loss and self discovery.
As a Mormon I used to dream of uniting the two faiths as one, I was convinced that god gathered his people into various organisations to appeal to different personality types and that each had some truth ( Mormonism had it all of course) and was a useful stepping stone toward salvation. JWs I saw as people who wanted a more extreme form of legal structure, those who wanted to be given word by word directions.
-
21
A Religion of Assumptions
by Cold Steel inthe jehovah's witnesses are a strange cultural phenomenon and one that has always puzzled me.
members call it "the truth" and, more boldly, "jehovah's organization.
" but many of those on the outside remain dumbfounded.
-
-
Qcmbr
Most people are terribly insecure and subconsciously doubt their place in family and society. When someone stands up in public and speaks with conviction it is immensely persuasive. Mix that with religion and you will also attract people looking for their place in humanity. The JW, Mormon, Xian stories provide a narrative that at once excuses weaknesses , provides a heroic path to redemption (do x, stay the course, get to the magic kingdom for the reward) and gives each person a vital role to play upon which everything hangs. This whole structure requires a figurehead, someone to lead and give authority. The more inaccessible the authority the better and so god becomes a sock puppet for an earthly leadership that assumes proxy authority. The desire for leadership and direction in life is a very powerful mental force that appeals most to those who do not have much power over their life ( uneducated, poor , ill and emotionally exhausted.)
Cold Steel how do you feel about being led by a prophet who is mentally incapable?
Mormonism has suffered this a couple of times ( and is currently experiencing a leader experiencing severe mental degradation.)