So what do you understand by Then the Spirit of the Lord came on Jephthah?
Did God bother to stop him? Did God allow the sacrifice to complete - in His name?
Posts by Qcmbr
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340Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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Qcmbr
Name another example after Abraham's test of faith
Wasn't once enough? What being would even suggest such a disgusting concept even under the pretence of a test?
but since you ask:
Judges 11:29-40
New International Version (NIV)
29 Then the Spirit of the Lord came on Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord : “If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord ’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”
32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the Lord gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of timbrels! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, “Oh no, my daughter! You have brought me down and I am devastated. I have made a vow to the Lord that I cannot break.”
36 “My father,” she replied, “you have given your word to the Lord . Do to me just as you promised, now that the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request,” she said. “Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry.”
38 “You may go,” he said. And he let her go for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father, and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
From this comes the Israelite tradition 40 that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.
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340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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Qcmbr
There should come a point where we put aside childish fantasies about gods turning people into salt and raining fire down on evil cities. This is not reality, it never happened, it was ancient Harry Potter. We make fools of ourselves to argue for the veracity of tribal fables.
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Qcmbr
Yes - I do immensely respect someone who believes, allows that belief to enrich their life but is acutely aware that it is simply a belief. There is something inspiring in standing for something when you know you don't have a full picture or you are faced with the uncertainty of the outcome. The believers who slip into certainty mode or who turn their lack of knowledge into a more certain belief (doubling down when their belief is shown to be empty) are where I start to despair at faith. Someone willing to stand up without full information and put forward an idea is exciting IF they are self aware enough to doubt and brave enough to modify their idea when presented with new info.
Not particularly directed only at BAs!
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340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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Qcmbr
Interesting Band. Yes, it is difficult to succinctly make a point without the use of generalisations or direct statements shorn of diplomacy. I suspect that quite often we (I) dash off statements while multi tasking that don't read well. I do find that things have quietened down overall - it used to be a complete warzone!
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340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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Qcmbr
Band - are we disagreeing ?
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340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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Qcmbr
Spot on Cofty.
What is the point in faith and treating it as a divine virtue if it is simply a synonym for empirical knowledge? Tec needs to stop using her inner language and definitions in public and then blaming us for not understanding.
Faith is to believe despite or in the absence of evidence, it was not faith that drove biblical Thomas to check the wounds of Christ in the story. In fact faith is just a first principle of Christianity, its meant to be a motivating factor driving towards a state of knowledge , its not supposed to be the goal in and of itself except in keeping an enquiring mind. In many ways we could claim that christian faith shares characteristics with intuitive curisoity, they both give an initial framework to test and a desire to perform the test. Faith may lead someone to pray and if they believe they have received an answer then that answer and the resultant information change are not faith but the fruits of faith.
Christianity promotes the concept that faith should preceed the reward. Faith is thus required of a believer. It does not state that knowledge, evidence, hearing, tasting, feeling or experiencing are initially required but simply an acceptance, a humility and a childlike trust in the good news. This total reliance on Christ is one of the hallmarks of christianity and Tec seems to have bypassed this in her rush to prophetess status.
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340
Fallacies about Faith
by tec inpeace to you!.
this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.
this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.
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Qcmbr
Christian concepts of justice are immoral . They introduce the concept of an intermediary willing to pay the price of the transgressor simply by magically removing the payment cost. The intermediary pays the price by simply removing the debt but never paying for it. If i get punched in the nose by a xian they can obtain forgivenesness by a magic ritual ( prayer and or confessional plus potential ritualistic penance) non of which actually renders me, the victim, any justice but implies that instead I simply suck up the pain and render mercy. Very evil system that requires a human sacrifice to make it all 'work'. yuckyuckyuck.
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139
Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
by rawe inhas anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?
what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.
if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.
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Qcmbr
All of these have been competently addressed countless times
...by Mormon apologists lol. Cold Steel - you do your homework from sources not related to FARMS! Trust me it will open your eyes - if you can see past the filters you have.
for interest please address the point that Joseph was a money digger prior to the visions and book of mormon story. Was this a fraudulent activity (looking in a hat at a seerstone, at certain astrological times of the year , telling people how to stand, when to talk, what way to dig in order not to disturb the spirit guarding the treasure that had been buried and 'cursed' so that it was 'slippery')? If this does not raise alarm bells then Cold Steel you have descended into the ridiculous. Joseph was a money digger and a seer way before he had any vision and this was attested by those who employed him. It is a little convenient that he actually then 'finds' some ancient artefacts, in a box, guarded by a spirit, that makes him ritualistically retrieve the contents (shocking him , as per money digging lore, when he tries to get them the wrong way) and then gets him to translate some metal plates (NOT gold - too heavy to run through the woods with!) using a seerstone in a hat (why bother with the plates at all!)
Stop and think. How likely is it that God would create a book like the Book of Mormon, replete with checkable factual flaws (windows, silk, wheels, elephants and so on), have someone translate it using magical techniques (head in a hat, seerstone, magic glasses in spectacles) , allow them to try and sell the copyright, allow someone to steal 1/6 of it so loosing that portion completely - just to teach one guy a lesson? When do your BS filters go off? Please, please take a reality check, go outside, look at the real world and shake away the cobwebs of magic thinking.
The supposed translation lifts heavily from the King James Bible (including real scholarly errors and also doctrinal points he later 'corrects' by inspiration!) and also from this book - http://archive.org/stream/firstbooknapole00gruagoog#page/n17/mode/2up and this one - http://archive.org/stream/latewarbetweenun00inhunt#page/n13/mode/2up.
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139
Ever consider joining The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
by rawe inhas anyone here left jehovah's witnesses to join the churuch of jesus christ of latter-day saints?
what was your motivation for doing so and how has it worked out?.
if you haven't joined the lds or considered it, as an ex-jw, what is your general view of the lds faith?.
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Qcmbr
Cold Steel - no idea what your idea of a con man was: Joseph, started pretending to see buried treasure to get money out of gullible locals at a very young age (prior to his 'vision'),he wrote a book and tried to sell the copyright to make cash, started a bank and pretended it was backed by more silver than it really was (unsurprisingly it folded), had affairs with multiple women, some married and at least one with a 16 year old , adopted daughter and was shown many times to have no concept of transaltion (Egyptian alphabet, Greek psalter incident and the farcical Book of Abraham.)
Oh and btw the church doesn't agree with your robust defence of the dna issue. They've already modified the BoM to reduce its obvious error that the Nephites and Lamanites were the ancestors of the American Indians.