Last post on this topic for me - its gets a bit pointless suggesting we should be open minded when clearly people are more interested in character attacks to get their point across. If you have no doubt about evolution fine - as for me I look at the evidence and disagree. Scientists have a woeful record so far in getting things right - I can't think of one theory proposed by scientists that hasn't been replaced / modified / radically altered as we learn more.
I will stand for God, religion, prophets, intelligence not randomness, questioning not point scoring, creation not macro evolution, the soul not animated meat, reasons not just 'because it is.' I don't ask anyone to take that journey with me but I do ask them to respectit and to respect my desire not see our schools become so close minded that they teach a barely understood principle that has many scientists working on it and exclude all other ideas.
Posts by Qcmbr
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83Should Intelligent Design be taught in schools?
by AlmostAtheist inkansas is holding a debate to decide.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/education/05/02/life.evolution.reut/index.html.
topeka, kansas (reuters) -- evolution is going on trial in kansas.. eighty years after a famed courtroom battle in tennessee pitted religious beliefs about the origins of life against the theories of british scientist charles darwin, kansas is holding its own hearings on what school children should be taught about how life on earth began.. the kansas board of education has scheduled six days of courtroom-style hearings to begin thursday in topeka.
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Qcmbr
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83
Should Intelligent Design be taught in schools?
by AlmostAtheist inkansas is holding a debate to decide.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/education/05/02/life.evolution.reut/index.html.
topeka, kansas (reuters) -- evolution is going on trial in kansas.. eighty years after a famed courtroom battle in tennessee pitted religious beliefs about the origins of life against the theories of british scientist charles darwin, kansas is holding its own hearings on what school children should be taught about how life on earth began.. the kansas board of education has scheduled six days of courtroom-style hearings to begin thursday in topeka.
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Qcmbr
As I pointed out quite a few posts ago I said it doesn't need to be a long course just enough to introduce it as another option: Things to look at -
Expansion rates of the universe and the cosmological constant.
Location of the earth in relation to the sun and moon - required for life as we know it.
The difficult that science has in recreating life itself.
The sheer complexity of proteins and cells - the way they operate in harmony and when they are mutated slightly they often cause huge problems - this means evolution has to navigate a minefield as it mutates its way through the dna without killing the organism.
Candidates for intelligent design - God / Life on other planets. Look at size of universe and current astronomical estimates on our relationship with the cosmos. Compare with ideas of life being seeded onto world from comets.
Look at how man is becoming an intelligent designer with cloning/ domestication and breeding / exploration of the world and what would need to be done to make one habitable.
Discuss how some parts of the human condition are not always explainable by mechanistic processes - such as faith, altruism, love, hatred etc.. move onto what does it mean to be intelligent.
Briefly discuss religious intelligent design concepts (creation is mentioned in many cultures)
Discuss the difference between mechanical process (crystal formation, snowflakes and other self organising systems) and the replicability of life - procreation is an incredible process that uses several mechanical methods combined into a functioning whole.)
The issues of species appearing not evolving in the fossil record, the issue of fossils reappearing as live animals today - the possibility that something else is aiding lifes progress.
I could go on but its past midnoght - I've got enough material there for a teacher to cover masses of scientific , provable things without 'preaching' ID but just suggesting that the facts also fit another scenario. -
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Questions for evolution believers - the geological column
by Qcmbr inhaving had my bum fried several times in rather one sided evo arguements in the spirit of rapprochement i come with some difficult questions that i welcome evolutionists / geologists / anykindaists to provide answers - i'm not trying to prove anyones answers wrong - just to see what we come up with... .
what is the geological column?
where do we find it?
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Qcmbr
..so is oil halfway coal? I would have though coal would appear at every level of the geological column and be at different stages of production. Even if teh majority is 300 million years old - wheres teh 100 million year old midway coal?
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Evolution of Man
by bavman inhere's a question for all you who have been studying evoluition much longer than me.
i have read in a few places that man has all but stopped evolving.
is this what is really being taught by science and why?
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Qcmbr
Why do you think evolution isn't universal - ie it picks some specias and grows legs on them and yanks them up out of the water in a matter of a few million years but others just don't quite get it - some species just stay the same ignoring all those random mutations, living through all the same climatic , environmental pressures and just keep mosying on.
ALan - Coelencaths did reappear after being extinct for millions of years... -
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Questions for evolution believers - the geological column
by Qcmbr inhaving had my bum fried several times in rather one sided evo arguements in the spirit of rapprochement i come with some difficult questions that i welcome evolutionists / geologists / anykindaists to provide answers - i'm not trying to prove anyones answers wrong - just to see what we come up with... .
what is the geological column?
where do we find it?
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Qcmbr
How does coal fit into this gelogical column - coal seems (haha) to be very concentrated and fairly substantial - what conditions created coal since they can't have been depositional like rock - I'm fairly sure there are no coals being formed today - is that correct?
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83
Should Intelligent Design be taught in schools?
by AlmostAtheist inkansas is holding a debate to decide.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/education/05/02/life.evolution.reut/index.html.
topeka, kansas (reuters) -- evolution is going on trial in kansas.. eighty years after a famed courtroom battle in tennessee pitted religious beliefs about the origins of life against the theories of british scientist charles darwin, kansas is holding its own hearings on what school children should be taught about how life on earth began.. the kansas board of education has scheduled six days of courtroom-style hearings to begin thursday in topeka.
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Qcmbr
Are you meaning facts for God stepping in at times? I never said their were facts - just that the bible supported the notion (Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego - dunno if those names are right) - I think we all know of people who have survived things - not saying they are God stepping in just that the bible does say sometimes it happens.
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Questions for evolution believers - the geological column
by Qcmbr inhaving had my bum fried several times in rather one sided evo arguements in the spirit of rapprochement i come with some difficult questions that i welcome evolutionists / geologists / anykindaists to provide answers - i'm not trying to prove anyones answers wrong - just to see what we come up with... .
what is the geological column?
where do we find it?
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Qcmbr
So big animals need to be covered pretty quickly - does this argue for a very different earth to that which we see today - ie extremely cataclysmic conditions wherever fossils are found? Shouldn't there be lots of other things fossilised with the dinosaur (ie what it was lying on?) - what was in its stomach - if it had bones?
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Texas doesn't have bigger problems to solve?
by Country Girl intexas lawmakers ok cheerleading ban .
by april castro, associated press writer tue may 3,11:53 pm et .
austin, texas - after an alternately comic and fiery debate ?
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Qcmbr
Actually I'd say no Texas doesn't have bigger problems.
Women have fought so hard for freedom from male dominance and what do they end up dong with that freedom - dancing suggestively for the pleasure of the men. Anyone who says these girls aren't dancing to titilate is not lookin at what they are doing. If that's innocent expression why not just roll out some poles and get them wiggling there, while were at it just cut away most of the costumes and reveal as much flesh as you can - they could then have money thrown at them - help them pay for college!
Wake up. Some women are more exploited now than they think. This sort of thing is important to deal with becasue its teaching respect for women and for women to respect themselves. Cheerleading is fine, dance doesn't have to be lewd, costumes don't have to be suggestive etc.. surely everyone can see that. These young women though are being taught a very powerful lesson which I fully believe they understand. Sex is a form of power - but its a sham - when women get abused, beaten up, raped, treated as sexual objects not individuals of worth, when women are discarded for the newest model and so on- where did all the fun, glamour and glitz go.
I spent two years knocking on doors and the number of young mothers I saw broke my heart, just kids consumed by a societies voracious appetite for sex, fathers mainly absent or too young to support their babies, women with that haunted look of fear and hurt _ I saw it too many times - cheerleading is part of a really big issue that affect lives more deeply than tax bills, highway regulations or often hunger, illness and poverty - I cried once when I left a house where a young mother was shooting up while her daughter crawled amongst the needles. Thats why I want modesty brought back into our schools, our televisions our homes. I want sex to be taught as a beautiful, special (sacred?) thing that is primarily for the purpose of procreation , something to be revered not made cheap and sold with marching bands and dance moves. Our wives, sisters, mothers, daughters are surely worth more than this. -
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Questions for evolution believers - the geological column
by Qcmbr inhaving had my bum fried several times in rather one sided evo arguements in the spirit of rapprochement i come with some difficult questions that i welcome evolutionists / geologists / anykindaists to provide answers - i'm not trying to prove anyones answers wrong - just to see what we come up with... .
what is the geological column?
where do we find it?
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Qcmbr
So just to recap:
Layering is found in the igneous rocks which are generally laid down in big masses and are dateable by radio carbon dating, the sedimentary layers are made from eroded material and so can't be dated by these methods - their ages have to be sought using different measures - and its not too accurate. The fossils appear in the sedimentary layers.
Now to me we have a another question - to fossilise an animal as big as say a TRex you need to cover them up pretty fast with loads of silt otherwise they rot and decompose (e.g. of the millions of buffalo and bisen that died over the years there aren't (m)any? fossil remains. Fossilisation needs to be fast as well since even being buried in mud isn't itself enough - has to be anerobic or chemically nasty to bacteria etc..? Are we saying then that fossilisation occurs over millions of years of gradual deposition or are sediment layers laid down in fast pulses (maybe a local flood) which cover up these animals and exclude bacteria...or can really arid areas produce sedimentary rocks? -
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Should Intelligent Design be taught in schools?
by AlmostAtheist inkansas is holding a debate to decide.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/education/05/02/life.evolution.reut/index.html.
topeka, kansas (reuters) -- evolution is going on trial in kansas.. eighty years after a famed courtroom battle in tennessee pitted religious beliefs about the origins of life against the theories of british scientist charles darwin, kansas is holding its own hearings on what school children should be taught about how life on earth began.. the kansas board of education has scheduled six days of courtroom-style hearings to begin thursday in topeka.
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Qcmbr
GBL - I think we have the idea of God completely wrong - He isn't there to step in and stop the natural process that is death. Death needs to be here so we can move onto the next phase of existence so God isn't some guy in blue spandex and red underwear averting disasters. God knows when our time is up and when its not. I know of several instances where people have had unusual things happen to them that have saved their lives - there are certainly biblical records to support the notion that sometimes God will step in.
The first LDS prophet got shot - where was God? - waiting for him. This world isn't paradise - its a form of spiritual death in that we are separated from God - after gaining our unique individual experiences here its just not feasible to expect God to hold us back. They said similar things to Jesus when He was on the cross - if youve got the power why don't you save yourself..
The arguement could carry on forever - if God intervenes to stop death then He has to stop killing diseases, after that everyone would whinge that He was unfair since He lets people get injured or get colds - soon we are back to the Garden of Eden and we can never meet God because of the fall - we are stuck as we are -
Though death sucks I think staying here would suck even more.