Dead people can't have kids. Families are a fundamental part of the way people come into physical existence. Fewer people means fewer children , means fewer going to heaven/living on paradise earth. So killing people would not benefit the plan IMHO.
Posts by Qcmbr
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8
A more effective way to spare the lives of billions!
by AuldSoul inat the outset i wish to make clear i am not an advocate of the course of action discussed herein.
i do not agree with the governing body's teachings on the result of the good news of the kingdom.. but if i did:.
i would have to recognize that (1) it takes more than 4,000 hours (in fact, about 188 days of 24-hours straight per day) of witnessing to gain one baptized witness, (2) persons taught "the truth" are more accountable before god than the rest of society, (3) those who "hear and reject" may very well be deemed deserving of eternal destruction at armageddon, (4) there is about 1 jw publisher per 1,200 people, (5) those who die before armageddon are very likely to be resurrected because their sins are paid for, and (6) there is no greater expression of love than being willing to sacrifice your own life for the lives of others.. this being the case, even if it cost me my everlasting life to do it (see point 6) i could save many more people in a much shorter time by killing everyone i see.
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MAN: to blame? GOD: benign and caring? What is the whole truth?
by Terry inalmost every watchtower publication we've ever seen begins in the garden of eden.. we are told the earth was created for man.
we are told man was given a paradise and that his disobedience introduced to the world sin and death.
man ruined the wonderful, gentle and peaceful plan of god.. that is the story we are told.
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Qcmbr
Hey Tetra - statistically you can't make your claim about God.
If my God is money then statistically 'it ' exists, if my God is a superior intellect than my own, then again, 'it exists' , if my God is a person, ditto, if my God is an spirit that I can't see then statistics are meaningless since existence verified by non-spiritual means ceases to be a viable proof point, if God is a visible God then statistically loads of people claim to have seen 'Him,Her,it' but assuming you haven't you can only really collapse the statistics to what you think your God 'is' and then assuming your god hasn't fulfilled the crieria you accept as it's evidence then statistically you are spot on - your God has SO FAR failed to validate itself but heck - you look fairly young to me and you may change your mind on what your god is at any time so creating him/it/her:)
Statistically speaking - form an individual point of view - its very likely that the many gods that people choose to worship (be they whatever they are) must exist otherwise they wouldn't be their God - in fact God requires its/His/Her proven self existent for an individual to believe - it is a self defining statement. Let me play out this for you from 'my God' - I had a very personal experience (with 'God') that is the basis of my belief in God - therefore my God does/must exist for me. My God however cannot exist for you since you weren't there. -
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Getting Deinstitutionalised
by Satanus inpeople cry about the general breakdown of society.
i think that what is really happening is that institutions are being broken down.
for examples: marriage, family, traditional family roles, churches, traditional 'morals'.
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Qcmbr
Hi Tetra - just to play the concept out a bit further (not to attack you:) Surely though almost ALL your(my) decisions are based upon subjective application of logic. You just said it was better to kill the mythical God rather than the factual neighbour but to be honest logic is fairly mute on this assertion since it just seems that way to you. Logically there are arguments for not killing the 'myth' if you so decide to construct your subjective ordering of the facts.
Logic may work for maths but we can't use it unfiltered for real world decisions since we have to be subjective about which logic to apply (in other words we have to apply a set of possibly illogical morals to decide which logic rule to give precidence to). 'Tis a funny old world (a phrase with no logic applied?). There is a strong suggestion that just as maths is an approximation of reality - so logic is - both are built as models (pretty darn useful ones) rather than actual facts that hold true at all times - in my opinion.
Opinions are illogical by one possible reading of the facts. -
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Getting Deinstitutionalised
by Satanus inpeople cry about the general breakdown of society.
i think that what is really happening is that institutions are being broken down.
for examples: marriage, family, traditional family roles, churches, traditional 'morals'.
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Qcmbr
Actually Tetra - if you think about what you just said (its obvious why you shouldn't kill) it's actually not abvious at all.
There are two principles at work here - the one you malign and use the to beat irrational believers with - subjective evaluation - and the other logic and fact. If I say you are good looking its subjective. If I say you are a man its fact. You just made a subjective statement about killing becasue factually killing people has a lot going for it. Subjectively we 'know' its wrong but the reality is we can't logically justify it - its just another construct of the human mind. The natural system you so love kills without thought or rational(sometimes just out of habit) and yet it is only humans who can evaluate whether that is good or bad.
There is a whole world behind this - you always throw this in believers face because it is impossible to logically answer 'why is it better?' questions since logically subjective evaluations are just a side effect of consciousness and are not factual. Let me give you the example again. Is it logical to kill someone who is about to kill many others (remember the kill or not kill Hitler thread?) Logic can't answer that since it involves subjective evaluations that are fairly arbitrary - most would kill a young Hitler but would allow the seller of cigarrettes to live - either approach has no logical answer but definate subjective ones. At the end of the day it is not possible to say that it is obviously better not to kill except by a call to subjective thinking - the very thinking that says that religion is better than no religion, evolution is better than God. Really it doesn't matter what happens, logically.
P.S. Disregard the above comments - they are purely subjective:) -
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I'm not buying it! That people left the Witnesses and became Christians.
by free2beme ini tried it, could not swallow all the lies and misinformation they had.
i am sorry, but even if you deny the whole witness faith, there is still parts to christianity that they pointed out that you can not just ignore and act like it is okay to join another faith that is christian.
are you going to become catholic when your know their history?
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Qcmbr
Rev - when did the LDS do a non christian cr*p on your christian front lawn? Sheesh.
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Seventh-day Adventists at my door
by TD inlast night a member of the seventh-day adventist faith knocked on my door and offered my literature.
this is the first time that's every happened.. his approach was similar to the jw's.
--he tried to talk of topics of common interest and work that into a presentation for his literature without actually saying who he was affliliated with.
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Qcmbr
Gotta defend my prophet Mary - you got a lot of your source from the Decks who are nuts.
1/ Kinderhook plates - Joseph Smith took them and never even pretended a translation.
2/ The three witnesses never denied their testimony which is odd if your lying. What did the 11 and the 3 witnesses ever gain out of their deception except a world of hurt. Give me one other christian organisation that even pretends to angelic visits, new scriptures. Most christian churches are left talking about the spirit since its the one thing that is impossible to disprove. The LDS church has 15 witnesses who signed their names to having seen the gold plates and some of them helped in the translation process.
3/ People leaving your side is not a proof your false. Exactly the same happened to Jesus.
4/ The book of Mormon translation contained sections from the old testament bible since the book of mormon contains portions of the old testament which the writer thought vital(remember they carried the old scriptures with them) interestingly there are some sections that aren't in our bible that have been lost but were current to the Nephites. The fact they are in KJV verbatum (though its fascinating to see what has been changed), is explained quite easily - just as Jesus quoted scripture in the language of the day and didn't correct and rephrase everything (the simplest route if your forging something) when the meaning is correct a prophet will quote the scripture of the day. Where the meaning of the old testament is not correct and has been bodged by translation then Joseph Smith provides a correction. Pretty much the way a prophet would.
5/ Proof of a civilisation that co-existed with much larger civilisations but had christian style beliefs does exist. I've listed it before. What everyone forgets about meso american culture is that of city states that may have indigenous peoples but are passed around by the ruling power. The Book of Mormon has this pattern exactly with several cities changing hands regularly and yet not 'becoming' culturally altered. Can you explain which parts of Nephite culture aren't found in Meso-America? Plenty of wars, trade, religious conflict. Its actually more stunning that JS got it so exactly right.
6/The book of Mormon states Jesus was born at Jerusalem not in Jerusalem. Bethlehem meant a lot less to a migrant people than their former capital. The land of is a common semitic style of reference for alocation and its environs. Pretty wierd that Joseph Smith would get that right since he certainly was no scholar.
7/ TD - latin phrases in Book Of Mormon, try french! The latin comes from the bible as stated above. The french carries a meaning not possible in english without extra words.
End of the day though - you are right to question this book right down to its core - if its false then the whole LDS faith just crumbles to dust. I had quite the crisis about this when I was younger. -
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Seventh-day Adventists at my door
by TD inlast night a member of the seventh-day adventist faith knocked on my door and offered my literature.
this is the first time that's every happened.. his approach was similar to the jw's.
--he tried to talk of topics of common interest and work that into a presentation for his literature without actually saying who he was affliliated with.
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Qcmbr
..so what did you read Mary? Like I keep asking the Rev, have you read the book. I've read a the JW orange book, portions of the the jolly green giant bible version, more 'awakes' than you can shake a college degree at and yet I'd still rather ask a JW/exJW what they believe since its very easy to get the wrong end of the stick.
By the same token the LDS aren't anything special as far as the people go, we still fart around and goof off, have affairs and generally get in a pickle like everyone else. -
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How do you explain bible prophecies?
by ithinkisee inyou know the ones ... how alexander the great was supposedly predicted in advance .... how daniel interpreted dreams and foretold bablyons destruction ..... how cyrus was named years in advance .... how jesus fulfilled so many hebrew scriptures prophecies ...... how do you explain this?
conspiracy by the early church?
conspiracy by the 70 scholars of the lxx?.
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Qcmbr
Joel - if my memory serves me the southern states did call on Britain for help and we gave them a fair amount since we relied on southern cotten. In the first world war and the second world wars the UK did call on the US to help - good job you came and saved our butts even if you were a little late. I think WW1/2 could fairly be described as war being poured out on all nations...? The prophecy hasn't finished either - these wars and trobles are prophesied to reach a crescendo before the second coming. I think what marks the wars since the American civil war as somewhat unique is the way death has been industrialised with high explosives, machine guns, tanks, bombers etc.. our capacity to exterminate is eye opening.
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Mormons/LDS
by Evanescence inwhat would your views be on mormons?.
was there much incidences where jw's and mormons would ever catch eachother while going door-to-door?.
just curious cause both of you do it and wondered if there was ever any conflict between the two..... evanescence
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Qcmbr
U74 - to be honest I don't know what the different fundamentalist groups preach. In all seriousness I think polygamy would be an extremelly hard law to live. I love my wife and its a whole alien mindset to think of loving another wife equally. I guess affairs etc.. often happen for excitements sake or when love is dying in one relationship so maybe its unfair of me to compare pol. with playing the field.
I think polygamy is like every other religious practise, once it goes beyond its intended purpose it gets pretty cr*ppy. I think men marrying teenagers is a big nono and the stuff you are describing is fairlt reprehensible to my westernised 2006 eyes and thinking patterns. Maybe its a good thing the LDS chose to remove themselves from that divine law. -
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Seventh-day Adventists at my door
by TD inlast night a member of the seventh-day adventist faith knocked on my door and offered my literature.
this is the first time that's every happened.. his approach was similar to the jw's.
--he tried to talk of topics of common interest and work that into a presentation for his literature without actually saying who he was affliliated with.
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Qcmbr
Rev Frank - Have you read the Book of Mormon? The book tells of a group of Asiatics who travel to America and over a long period grow to be millions in number. Then along comes a handful (probably less than 15) of Israelites and joins them. This small group intermarries with the indigenous peoples (who may or may not be exclusively from the above group) and suffer continual war which does tend to keep the lid on one's numbers. They then move as a group to intermingle with another group who we don't know the genetic grouping of (though at least one is of the lineage of Zedekiah.) Finally this one single group is wiped out in a genocidal war. This happens over a 2000 year period. I would be stunned if there was much if any hebrew dna left. What would prove the Book of Mormon wrong is if there was no asiatic dna since that is the indigineous peoples at the beginning of the Book Of Mormon.
Keep your crappy science to yourself.