As AG shows above its a power game. Visions and revelations are all about creating a pretend teacher / student relationship with them as knowledge giver. The formula is simple. Point out how some nebulous concept is understood only be the chosen few ( lets say 'love') and then point out how everyone else is in some way deficient and in need of the product being sold. As a side task frame the whole story as a them v us scenario where dark forces influence the thinking of anyone refusing to accept the false power game. Great object lesson.
Posts by Qcmbr
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153If there is a God why didn't he sign our DNA
by scotoma intodays scientists can and do insert their trademark into dna.. why couldn't jehovah anticipate scientists learning this technique and stumbling across a strand that says "human by yhwh"?.
that would have answered a lot of questions.. he could have even included a model number human2.0.
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153
If there is a God why didn't he sign our DNA
by scotoma intodays scientists can and do insert their trademark into dna.. why couldn't jehovah anticipate scientists learning this technique and stumbling across a strand that says "human by yhwh"?.
that would have answered a lot of questions.. he could have even included a model number human2.0.
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Qcmbr
All the gods who have ever owned the hearts and enslaved the minds of billions have asked for that which they do not need , revealed nothing beyond the science of the day, made their most important message identical to the stories of children, chosen an elect voice hearing, vision seeing, faith feeling elite to lead and have faded with the culture that created them.
History , in this regard, teaches nothing to the dupes who fall for it time and again. A real god who was interested in humans would act differently to all human imagined gods, it would - as all rational beings do - teach the futility and danger of faith. No all powerful god wishing to communicate with another race would send fragmented babblings in dreams and telepathic Chinese whispers allowing that message to be further sophisticated by the prophets and mystics who play power games with everyone else. A real god's existence would not be in doubt and certainly wouldn't need to be proven or testified of on Internet forums or street corner soap boxes.
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Double Binds
by Qcmbr ininteresting discussion re use of double binds to control people behind the mormon curtain: http://forum.newordermormon.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29936.
in short it is giving someone two options which are in some way mutually exclusive such that success in one guarantees failure in the other and then attaching guilt.
this way members continually chase their tails failing to meet all demands, feel guilt and hand over control to the person, concept or organisation.. mormon examples:.
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Qcmbr
Interesting discussion re use of double binds to control people behind the Mormon curtain: http://forum.newordermormon.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29936
In short it is giving someone two options which are in some way mutually exclusive such that success in one guarantees failure in the other and then attaching guilt. This way members continually chase their tails failing to meet all demands, feel guilt and hand over control to the person, concept or organisation.
Mormon examples:
- "No success will compensate for failure in the home" / Wear yourself out in service to your fellow man / Never say no to a calling.
- If you don't have a testimony it will come by bearing it / Do not lie or give false witness.
- Free will - moral agency / Be obedient without question
- Prophet will "never lead you astray " / Sometimes the prophet "speaks as a man"
- The "glory of God is intelligence" / Only study church approved material
- Have unshakeable faith / Avoid information that may weaken your testimony
- Do not get into debt / Pay 10% of income before all other obligations
- Do not gossip / Discuss the needs and problems of your assigned families to various committees
- Atonement is free for all people / confess sins to Priesthood leadership who will decide if atonement has worked and you are forgiven
There are lots more, have any JW examples?
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Why didn't God design humans so they pay a price with their health and bodies suffer for committing evil?
by yadda yadda 2 inthe laws of health dictates that if we abuse our body and neglect our diet and health, we pay a price in our bodies.
our health deterioriates and we get sick and diseased.
its like the law of gravity.
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Qcmbr
While I don't think god designed anything I think evolutionary processes do feedback a natural morality and justice when resources are easily found. So in a place with plenty of food then behaviour that is less moral is generally less effective. This effect scales into importance the more complex the social group. Humans are the most complex but you can still see animal societies where protection of kin ( the selfish gene) is moral and more effective than every man for themselves strategies which tend to predominate in resource scare environments.
In human society, just as 1 in every 10 smokers may well be able to smoke without suffering severe health problems, it is possible for in individual to escape social or physical consequences of immoral choices but overall there is a feedback, drink drivers suffer more injuries and deaths, thieves tend to have lower quality economic lives, gregarious people live longer, family orientated people tend to be happier on most measures and so on. Remember though that morality is relative. It is entirely moral , from an evolutionary standpoint, that in times of resource scarcity or immediate danger to act differently. During war, famine , personal attack we quickly discover that pious meekness and turn the other cheek are fairly useless traits in self or group preservation.
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If you have a Guardian Angle, would you be embarrassed?
by jam inif you found out after you die, you had a guardian angel.
watching over you, your entire life.. there are moments in my life i don,t care to think about.lol.
your guardian angel, ok folks this is jam one nite after consuming.
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Qcmbr
The only embarrassment I'd feel is the missed opportunties. My life is way too boring and mediocre.
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Copyright of forum post material
by Qcmbr injust a quick question.
a forum owner has posted that they are willing to get litigious if material from their forum is copied.
in the light that members of that forum regularly post the same question verbatim in both forums ( including the site owner who has stated their copyright claims) i just wanted to understand what legal grounds we view posts.
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Qcmbr
Just a quick question. A forum owner has posted that they are willing to get litigious if material from their forum is copied. In the light that members of that forum regularly post the same question verbatim in both forums ( including the site owner who has stated their copyright claims) I just wanted to understand what legal grounds we view posts. If indeed there is a legal right to pursue a copyright claim who owns those posts? While I am happy right now to assume anything I post in a public forum is no longer mine to decide what to do with I am less happy with the idea that a forum may wish to own my post. I did have a look at UK law and it seems this sort of legal area is grey and no definitive rules exist and would be worthless to pursue ( the copyright infringement needs to place a financial value on the content in order to evaluate the required payment.) In short , is it even an issue and if it is then should we consider removing the quote formatting and make an explicit statement not to quote from elsewhere?
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Your God asks for too much
by Qcmbr ini was wondering (again) about what i got out of my deal with mormon god.
the more i thought about it the more i realised that the xian god asks way too much and offers too little.. what does xg demand:.
1 - obedience to changeable often arbitrary commandments normally with little clarification of when and when not to apply them.
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Qcmbr
Sorry - just short hand for Christ.
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New magazine Carts
by jonno12225 innews from my wife from the recent meeting is that our congregation will be recieving 2 new magazine carts for market witnessing.
we live in a small market town in north yorkshire and have regular street markets.. the congregation is small (75+ publishers, -1 now) so it seems that this is being rolled out pretty conprehensivly now to all congs.
i still have no info as to whether each congregation has to purchase these from the hq or costings per unit..
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Qcmbr
So what are these carts? Mobile desks for street witnessing?
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Thankyou dad, for making me think...
by Aussie Oz inson was up visiting today and we had some great little chats about all things watchtower.
i would say the chances of him going back are real slim now, for he was telling me of some of his own wtf research on the internet about them.. anyway, at one point he came up, gave me a big hug and said "thankyou for making me think".
it seems that all the little seed dropping and question dropping over the last 3 years really did work!
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Qcmbr
Well done. You have done a great job with him. As parents one of the greatest things we can give our children is the ability to question and the intellectual honesty of reasoned doubt. This is a story I hope my children will replicate one day too. You sir are an inspiration.
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Please worship our god or he will kill you!
by snare&racket inwhy were we so suprised people did not join in droves!
what an awful message we shared......
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Qcmbr
Was talking to my wife about members of our church and how they were lovely people in general but in behaviour , beyond Mormon / xian rituals, they were no different than regular people in this part of the UK. In our active congregation of 100-150 we had ( that I knew about):
1/ 4 divorces
2/ 1 affair plus one attempted affair.
3/ 3 dishonest businessmen
4/ 1 abused by member, 5 abused by non member relatives
5/ 2 people with anger management issues
6/ Over 50% guys had admitted to viewing porn
7/ 3 verbally and 1 physically abusive husbands
8/ 1 suspected paedophile ( no actual evidence of harm )
9/ Several underage sexual liaisons that were reported
10/ 4 secret smokers
11/ 3 verbally nasty employers
12/ 3 secretly unhappy with marriage wives
13/ 2 closet gays ( one since out and out of church)
In short, the congregation was no purer than regular people outside.