myelaine
JoinedPosts by myelaine
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Heaven and Hell : Life after death
by bioflex ini am starting this topic to discuss the title.
i know many people on this forums dont believe in the idea of god , and even jw's reject the idea of a fiery hell even though the bible clearly states is.. this video contain testimonies osome people who even considered themselves as atheists until the point of practical death.. i just want to emphasize what one person said in the video at the point of death - " what if god is real, and what if all that which was being said about god was true" .
hope this helps whoever it may.. and one more thing, no matter what you do or how you live your life, just know that even at the point of death, jesus christ is able to save.
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myelaine
dear Vander...
you said: "Note that Jesus used the fraudster as an example for believers to follow in earning heavenly rewards. Think about it.
Vander
P.S. Again, let's look at the other scriptures, one passage at a time, once we deal fully with the passage at hand...to be sure we are not letting assumptions pass for truth."
considering that Jesus was talking about failure NOT victory, and unrighteous mammon NOT true "riches", isn't it in keeping with the general thrust of scripture that Jesus was referencing the everlasting habitation called hell?(luke 16:1-9) and since other scriptures spoken by Jesus reference a place of burning torment,(luke 16:24) how can one ignore these scriptural motifs (contained in the words and lessons OF Jesus Christ) without first assuming that something other than what IS stated is the truth?...
love michelle
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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myelaine
dear sizemik...
you said: "Yeah . . . at the tsunami warning we'd be paddling out 40 miles . . . catching those 50m mothers and riding them all the way down the St Laurence, praising Jah, the great and mighty wave generator, for his goodness toward surfers."...is this a thinly veiled lack of compassion toward the plight of others? or do you just think you're funny?
dear darthvader...
you said: "I don't believe this dribble, but once religious people believe that the "next life" (no matter what you call it: Heaven, New Order, Allah's Palace etc.) is possible, it inherently devalues this existence and provide justification or explanation for the most grievous suffering."...who's devalueing?
you suggest it couldn't possibly be a non-religious person, it's got to be the religious who lend support to welfare programs around the world, and who have built hospitals and actually left their comfortable lives behind in order to minister to the physical needs of the less fortunate...they're always living in the "next life"...(it might surprise you to know that most christians believe that God IS watching them go about their Fathers business)...
would you like to have your "giving" put under a microscope?
love michelle
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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myelaine
dear still thinking...
you said: "So why did God allow the evil one any sort of power in the first place? And if God doesn't hold much sway...how is he going to do anything about it?"...we are all given a certain amount of power over ourselves, if our "self" is more than our bodies, then we have control over our thoughts, which encompasses emotion, imagination and motivation etc....satan only has the power that we give him over us and our lives(thoughts included)...the opposite of this is true also...God only has the power in our lives that we give Him over our lives. "If he has allowed satan/the evil one or whatever you want to call him to do this to humans...what sort of god is that? But then, if he hasn't much sway...he has no control over satan/the evil one, in which case why put any faith in God if he is so powerless?"...we allow satan to do this to us by not fighting against him...we (generally) decide who we will allow to shape our thoughts and motives. the bible says that God allows satan to hold sway over the earth only for a while, during which time people decide who they will serve and thereby situate themselves in the "wheat" camp or the "tares" camp. putting faith in God and Jesus would place you in the "wheat" camp, so that in the harvest you aren't gathered and burned in the fire as "tares". that's why you put your faith in God and Jesus...matthew 13:30, (matthew 3:11-12)"So he created us...had no control over satan who misleads us, and then we have to be adopted by him once WE prove OURSELVES good enough?"...satan was given the same free will as we were...the bible says that he chose to rebel, it wasn't forced on him. it wasn't forced on those "angels" who choose to side with him either...I think you are misunderstanding the gospel message or purposefully twisting it in order to be contentious. the bible says that God declares that no man is righteous, so why would we then be asked to prove ourselves good enough? that "request" isn't in the bible. what is in the bible and what God wants from those who would be adopted as His children is the humility to admit that we aren't good enough to be in communion with a holy God...and to accept His provision for communion with Him, which would be the cleansing of our sin by the blood of His Son, Jesus Christ and the redemption of our bodies from the penalty of sin by renewal of the life giving Holy Spirit. "And its our fault isn't it?"...well, I don't think it is in satan's character to take the blame foryou, so yes, the choice of who you will serve is all yours. Mutual Assent: At common law, mutual assent is typically reached through offer and acceptance, that is, when an offer is met with an acceptance that is unqualified and that does not vary the offer's terms. The latter requirement is known as the "mirror image" rule. If a purported acceptance does vary the terms of an offer, it is not an acceptance but a counteroffer and, therefore, simultaneously a rejection of the original offer.
dear OnTheWayOut...
if mankind was in service to God and living wholly under God's protection and bounty natural occurances wouldn't be called disasters.
love michelle
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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myelaine
dear OnTheWayOut...
in a series of posts that I made on this thread I showed that when Jesus was physically present He did what one might expect of a loving God(Jesus provided for us because He could BE with us sinners...God the Father can not be around sin, His holiness demands that WE would be destroyed). I went on to say that God's plan was that, being physically absent, He expected the Body of Christ to do what He did. the bible also shows that (just as Jesus said: john 14:12)the early church WAS able to do great works through those who believed. I suggested that God is only as active in the world as those who believe and do the works that He would do...this isn't making excuses for God's inaction...this is pointing to the "present" inaction of the people of God. (some of these people would sit in thier comfortable pew and demand that God give them the very best of everything because they are "king's kids"...they wouldn't give anything but a token to the poor because they see themselves as needy)...I also said that God's people should work as an army in the name of Jesus. It is important that God's people work in the name of Jesus as this gives glory to God.(this is where the opening of doors happens)...NOT man, obviously "divisive" man isn't deserving of the glory...surely anyone can see this.(this is where the closing of doors happens)...
You may reject what I stated above and in the quoted posts below as pie in the sky, carrot and stick or whatever...but...why reject out of hand the only solution that is spoken of in the bible...and the "glimpse" of said truth actualized in zechariah 14:16-19,20,21(Amen!)...if you don't personally have any other solution?...at least God has people on the same page with Him to work out His solution...what have you got?...it seems to me you've got hand wringing, chaos disguised as a superior, informed, and logically sound alternative to a God directed programme.
my post pg.48:
you said: "It bothers me most of all when we compare God to ourselves as being a loving parent...because I don't see this in the world. I see death, starvation, disease and destruction...as a loving parent, if we had the power to do something about it we would. He doesn't. "...it is shown in the bible and proven in the world that God works primarily on the "spiritual man" in this realm. the "flesh man" is to be cast off or the "physical sorrows" are to be credited as nothing compared to the joy of the (redeemed) world to come. romans 8:18:23 (luke 22:37)
having said that, have you excercised your "power" (in this world) to be of utmost assistance in the fight against death, starvation, disease and destruction?...
you know, God opens doors and closes forever doors that go no where.
my post pg.49:
you said: "I just love it when we question what God does or does not do, people always come back to 'what are you doing?'
Well, that is not the question here. Plenty of humans do plenty to help and plenty don't. The question is...why does God let children starve to death. Are they not his children? "...
I asked you what you were doing because if you don't believe in God then you don't have reason to pass the buck do you?...you said that plenty of people do help the poor of other nations... I know plenty of people do...do you? until you do more than the minimum (out of guilt) you still don't have reason to pass the buck do you?
I suspect that you didn't bother to read the scriptures that I included. The bible says that God has a plan.(romans 8:18-23) Those who believe in His Son as their redeemer were to spread this message to the ends of the world. typically this would mean that a significant number would be on the same page so to speak and working in uniSon as an army (actually extending effort as well as resources for the oppressed in the name of Jesus)of God taking direction from Him and doing His will we would feed the hungry and generally make the world a better more equitable place...BUT...mankind (including unfortunately some who call themselves christians), being generally self-centered and power hungry, decided that this plan didn't serve thier purposes. In fact it went against their plans, their very nature and character.
God also knew our unredeemed fallen nature and character would eventually lead us to destroy ourselves completely...that's why Jesus said that the things concerning Him had an end(luke22:37)...there will be an end to God's efforts to redeem mankind. That end is soon because He cares for these little ones who have suffered at the hands of unredeemed mankind. He's going to disallow passing the buck and take these little ones back to Himself.
p.s. these little ones are NOT gods...they are humans...OUR human children.
my post pg 50:
the bible says that the whole world is under the sway of the evil one...that means that God doesn't hold much sway over the people of the world either. in Jesus' time He showed that He had control over nature (calming of the sea and the bursting nets of fish). the bible also implies that as evil men wax worse and worse toward the time of the end natural disasters will increase.
After the redeemed of God AND creation is redeemed(romans 8:18-23) God will hold sway. Nature will be under His control again. incedentally, "backsliding" isn't going to go unnoticed...zech 14:16-19
God allows us our free will but our choices have also allowed for our loss of protection from Him.
p.s. still thinking...God made all from one blood/clay (acts 17:26)in this way we are His offspring...but God has adopted spiritual children to continue on with Him into eternity...we are not all His adopted spiritual children.
love michelle
p.s. tec, re: your post# 6708 pg.61...we don't have to (nor could we) defend God or Jesus. we are called to defend "the faith" or "gospel".
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
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myelaine
dear OnTheWayOut...
the bible says that the whole world is under the sway of the evil one...that means that God doesn't hold much sway over the people of the world either. in Jesus' time He showed that He had control over nature (calming of the sea and the bursting nets of fish). the bible also implies that as evil men wax worse and worse toward the time of the end natural disasters will increase.
After the redeemed of God AND creation is redeemed(romans 8:18-23) God will hold sway. Nature will be under His control again. incedentally, "backsliding" isn't going to go unnoticed...zech 14:16-19
God allows us our free will but our choices have also allowed for our loss of protection from Him.
love michelle
p.s. still thinking...God made all from one blood/clay (acts 17:26)in this way we are His offspring...but God has adopted spiritual children to continue on with Him into eternity...we are not all His adopted spiritual children.
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
-
-
myelaine
dear still thinking...
you said: "I just love it when we question what God does or does not do, people always come back to 'what are you doing?'
Well, that is not the question here. Plenty of humans do plenty to help and plenty don't. The question is...why does God let children starve to death. Are they not his children? "...
I asked you what you were doing because if you don't believe in God then you don't have reason to pass the buck do you?...you said that plenty of people do help the poor of other nations... I know plenty of people do...do you? until you do more than the minimum (out of guilt) you still don't have reason to pass the buck do you?
I suspect that you didn't bother to read the scriptures that I included. The bible says that God has a plan.(romans 8:18-23) Those who believe in His Son as their redeemer were to spread this message to the ends of the world. typically this would mean that a significant number would be on the same page so to speak and working in uniSon as an army (actually extending effort as well as resources for the oppressed in the name of Jesus)of God taking direction from Him and doing His will we would feed the hungry and generally make the world a better more equitable place...BUT...mankind (including unfortunately some who call themselves christians), being generally self-centered and power hungry, decided that this plan didn't serve thier purposes. In fact it went against their plans, their very nature and character.
God also knew our unredeemed fallen nature and character would eventually lead us to destroy ourselves completely...that's why Jesus said that the things concerning Him had an end(luke22:37)...there will be an end to God's efforts to redeem mankind. That end is soon because He cares for these little ones who have suffered at the hands of unredeemed mankind. He's going to disallow passing the buck and take these little ones back to Himself.
love michelle
p.s. these little ones are NOT gods...they are humans...OUR human children.
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87
Spong: "Why We Must Reclaim The Bible From Fundamentalists"
by leavingwt injohn shelby spong, the retired american bishop, has written a new book.
his article, below, briefly explains the purpose of his new book.
why we must reclaim the bible from fundamentalists.
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myelaine
dear designs...
the *scientific method demands tangible verifiability and repeatability as a prerequisite to establishing proof......
love michelle
*Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. [1] To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. [2] The Oxford English Dictionary says that scientific method is: "a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses." [3]
Although procedures vary from one field of inquiry to another, identifiable features distinguish scientific inquiry from other methods of obtaining knowledge. Scientific researchers propose hypotheses as explanations of phenomena, and design experimental studies to test these hypotheses via predictions which can be derived from them. These steps must be repeatable, to guard against mistake or confusion in any particular experimenter. Theoriesthat encompass wider domains of inquiry may bind many independently derived hypotheses together in a coherent, supportive structure. Theories, in turn, may help form new hypotheses or place groups of hypotheses into context.
Scientific inquiry is generally intended to be as objective as possible, to reduce biased interpretations of results. Another basic expectation is to document, archive and share all data and methodology so they are available for careful scrutiny by other scientists, giving them the opportunity to verify results by attempting to reproduce them. This practice, called full disclosure, also allows statistical measures of the reliability of these data to be established~wikipedia~
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1495
An Old Argument.... does it hold water?
by AK - Jeff inestimates range from 4 million to 15 million children die from starvation each year on this planet.
that's between 500 and 1700 children a day, depending on what numbers you accept.
still, no matter which numbers you use, doesn't this make you arrive at one of the following conclusions?.
-
-
myelaine
dear still thinking...
you said: "It bothers me most of all when we compare God to ourselves as being a loving parent...because I don't see this in the world. I see death, starvation, disease and destruction...as a loving parent, if we had the power to do something about it we would. He doesn't. "...it is shown in the bible and proven in the world that God works primarily on the "spiritual man" in this realm. the "flesh man" is to be cast off or the "physical sorrows" are to be credited as nothing compared to the joy of the (redeemed) world to come. romans 8:18:23 (luke 22:37)
having said that, have you excercised your "power" (in this world) to be of utmost assistance in the fight against death, starvation, disease and destruction?...
you know, God opens doors and closes forever doors that go no where.
love michelle
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87
Spong: "Why We Must Reclaim The Bible From Fundamentalists"
by leavingwt injohn shelby spong, the retired american bishop, has written a new book.
his article, below, briefly explains the purpose of his new book.
why we must reclaim the bible from fundamentalists.
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myelaine
dear designs...
ummm...are you being factitious?
do you want to consult a rabbi?
love michelle