on (new testament scholar) bart ehrman's blog, the topic of luke's view of the purpose of jesus'.
death has been discussed.. in that discussion, ehrman points out how luke did not set forth the idea of atonement, rather luke set forth the idea of forgiveness.. on the other hand, mark and paul teach atonement.. these two points of view have been "mashed together" into a package deal, apparently, throughout history by theologians.. _________________________.
someone pays a debt owed by another.
Psalm 32:1 weaves together the notion of both...transgression against God forgiven/sin covered. (sacrificial blood "applied" to blot out or cover sin for the year...conceptualizing Christ's perpetual priesthood over and against the yearly sacrifices) AND the notion of God not imputing or charging iniquity against a person.
The two teachings of forgiveness and atonement are wrapped up in the writers expectation of "reconciliation" with God.
love michelle
thank you all for your sincere encouragement during these last few weeks.
finally, she is at peace.
i was with her , holding her hand when she died.
none of my jehovah's witness relatives called to tell me or my family.
just found out this morning.
I'm sorry that you and your family have been treated so shamefully. In His mercy, God provided comfort through the memory of your last conversation with your Mom.
xoxo
i have a elder trying to screw with me because he protects pedophiles and claims they can be rehabilitated.
he's doing his jw attacks while nobody is around because he knows he can lie about me and my family even if there are three witnesses the jw elders don't do squat!
they cower because all the elders are terrified of this bully, he brags about how great his business is but i know so many secrets about him and his wife.
You don't need advice as to how to stick it to an elder that you dislike. If that is what you've decided to do then do it. It's your life...
If I was to council you, I suggest you speak to the person honestly, tell him how you feel...mention your previous conflicts and ask him how you two might come to an agreement based on "scriptural principles".
love michelle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k
dear Vivian...
in the bible redeeming is taking back. when anyone has died a physical death, God redeems their soul.
You said,"You've yet to explain how your god being responsible or redeeming i high ground. Claiming things is easy. You've done that. Demonstrating those claims is harder. That you've not done."...
I thought I had explained it. God imbued man with dignity when he was created. Then man fell. God recognizes man's dignity (in spite of his fall) and still acts to redeem him.
dear cofty...
yes God is all powerful, that doesn't mean He's going to or is even required to step in and avert natural disasters. That He has stepped in to judge man at the flood and that He has promised to step in with judgement of man again is not deist belief. The bible as the word of God doesn't fit with deist belief either, does it? God steps in for judgement when He steps in.
dear VI...
I think you've lost the plot pretty quickly. No, early death is not a requirement of redemption. People die at all ages. The only thing required for redemption is God willing to redeem. The bible says that when Christ comes to judge again there are going to be some redeemed who haven't died.
dear Simon...
you said, "Sorry, I find your opinions vile. Please don't post such tripe on this forum anymore because it makes me want to vomit when I hear the utter drivel that you people spew without any feeling or empathy whatsoever."...
right. got it. Any thoughts or opinions that don't concur with your thoughts or opinions on the subject is utter drivel, lacking feeling and empathy and you don't want it posted. you might want to add that to your posting guidelines so that you can deny freedom of speech with more transparency. Chao baby.
love michelle <3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k
Vivian...
God didn't allow the tsunami "in order to take advantage of it to steal souls for His own company"...anymore than He takes advantage of any death. People die. At any time that they die and in any manner He will redeem the persons soul to Himself.
As an atheist I understand that you don't believe that there is any redeption in a situation like a tsunami...it is an act of nature that had horrible consequences. As a believer in the God of the bible, as someone who believes that God can and did redeem the situation. I'm the one who is finding and pointing out the moral high ground and you're not. You CAN'T find any moral high ground in the situation of a tsunami (as an atheist) because natural occurances don't happen with any thought to morality.
It is only by introducing God and His action of redeeming the bad situation that morality can be discussed. God took the moral high ground, Vivian...and I pointed it out. God dignified their person (whether they were good or bad) in the act of redemption.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k
dear Vivian...
I explained previously how God was able to redeem the horrible situation of the tsunami by redeeming the people killed. I didn't say (as you suggest) that God allowed it to happen because He wanted company. I'd like to remind you of the fact that we are discussing actual people and they deserve to be discussed with dignity. I think it's vulgar the way you bring them into the conversation like some kind of offence to you that God has to answer for.
the bible says that what God created was good. The bible says that after man fell the earth was put under man's dominion. God never said He was going to keep man from every calamity that can befall him. God never said He was going to keep the earth safe for man to live on.
God's priority (according to the bible) was not the flesh of man but the soul of man. He has a view beyond our physical comfort. He's looking towards the future when man can be, once again, in His company...like the intimacy of the garden BEFORE man's fall.
love michelle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k
dear Vivian...
you said, "Those people would have died naturally without the tsunami. God allowed incalculable pain and suffering simply so he could have some more company?"...
is it now your contention that "God" caused the tsunami by not preventing it? Or maybe you'd like to just stick to the fact that it was a natural occurance?
dear VI...
you're a deist, you've come to your own conclusions. how would you answer your question?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k
"So god allows people to die so that they can be with him, right? Why can they not just live a natural, safe life and be redeemed after they die of old age?"...
I can read in the bible that when God steps in to "stop" something, judgement follows right away. All I can suggest in answer to your question is that it wouldn't have been in the best interest of all mankind for Him to step in at that time because He brings "judgement" with Him.
being "able" to die of old age isn't a guarantee for a good life, or a righteous life. It's a fact that some wax worse and worse as time goes by.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k
dear cofty...
you said, "So according to you god drowned thousands of children in the Asian tsunami in order to "deliver them from evil"."...
no, I didn't say that.
God acts toward the "greater good". In the natural occurance of the tsunami, He was able to redeem the situation for His benefit and the benefit of those killed...by delivering those killed...to Himself. Making the death of those people NOT "without meaning" but for the occasion of redemption.
love michelle
